New Torchwood team: Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Martha, Mickey?
Rose gets her own Doctor!
Poor Donna.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
I'm still trying to figure out whether or not the Doctor used up one of his regenerations.
Posted by deadcujo (Member # 13) on :
German Dalek death squad!
Exterminieren!
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Krenim: I'm still trying to figure out whether or not the Doctor used up one of his regenerations.
I'd say he didn't. It's essentially the same basic principle as when he re-grew his own hand...just on a larger scale. Genetically The Doctor is still the same as he was before the metacrisis, so in theory it shouldn't count I'd have thought...and anyway, from a story perspective having it not count gives an extra regeneration to play with before they either are forced to end the series or have to invent a reason why The Doctor can still regenerate.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Give him a new set just like the Master, maybe?
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
Thing is though, can The Doctor do that himself? Wouldn't that need the presence of Gallifrey and the other Time Lords? I'd always taken the resurrection of The Master being them reviving his biodata from the matrix, given he was pretty much sucked into a blackhole...and that does tend to kill people completely, or at least cause a major headache!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Well, the Eighth Doctor said that the Eye of Harmony was "digesting" the Master, implying he's still a LITTLE alive. Assuming the event isn't time-locked, they could have revived the Master in any number of ways including sucking his essence out of the Eye. Omega could sorta do it, after all. Then they just grew a new body for him, or whatever. Point being, that it wasn't THAT big of a deal to resurrect a supposedly dead Time Lord and give him a brand new life cycle, as they didn't bother to tell the Doctor about it.
As for the Doctor, what he did raises a whole smegload of questions, and only time will answer at least some of them. Logically, if a Time Lord could only regenerate twelve times, it implies that he has only enough energy to do so. Using up the energy of the regenerative process to heal himself, and THEN diverting the remaining enrgy into his spare hand to eventually grow another him, suggests that he used up a regeneration in the process.
OTOH, if the limitation on regeneration is only the load on his physiology and NOT a tick on his regeneration tank, then NOT regenerating should theorhetically mean that he didn't do anything to his number of kicks at the can he has left. This has been suggested by such examples as the Master, who looked pretty crappy at the end of his original life cycle - which fandom has suggested is the result of his attempts to regenerate after his time was up.
OTOOH, why hasn't this thing popped up before? If you could theorhetically regenerate damage to yourself and NOT regenerate, why couldn't he do so in at least a few occasions before now? The fatal radiation he absorbed on Metebelis Three, or Spectrox Toxaemia, or being shot? And if some extra flesh is needed, you'd think that the Doctor would wake up from every regeneration and immediately lop off a limb or something so he could have that contingency?
Great episode. "Journey's End" is really reflective of Russel Davies' finale as showrunner and the overall story arc he had planned for his tenure. He really pulled out the stops in terms of cameos and references to everything he's written, as though the whole four years were building to this point. And once finished, we're really left where we started - the Doctor, travelling alone in the TARDIS, against the universe's wrongs... Just the starting place for his successor to come in to take where he may. In the meantime, pretty much everyone has had their story resolved: Rose has her own Doctor whom she can grow old with, most evidently. Really, only River Song is the largest open end from these four years that we need to deal with; good thing her character's creator has the reins from now on.
Except with a mucked up timeline... Before the start of the new season, the Daleks weren't to conquered Earth until the 22nd century. Now, they've invaded TWICE in two years, once even stealing the whole planet. I suppose the conquering to come was not time-locked and thus could be altered by events from Daleks later in their racial history, but it means WE still have to rationalize the whole thing up. Ditto with all the alien invasions in the past four years... Unlike the Third Doctor's tenure on Earth, this time most of the incidentss were very public and rather global (the Adipose and Sontaran invasions this year were pretty damned big). I hope that we'll see some more obvious clues as to how the human race has been affected by all this alien interference. Even this latest Dalek incident (arguably the biggest one yet) seems about to be shrugged off despite the apparent destruction of most major military forces and the slaughter of anyone fighting back, not the least of which was the apparent slaughter of almost everyone in UNIT. And the Valiant, DAMMIT!
BTW, rumor has it that BOTH Mickey and Martha are headed to Torchwood for next year's five-episode short season. This makes a vague amount of sense, since Martha can replace Owen and Mickey (with his computer skills and subsequent alt-Torchwood experiences) can replace Tosh. We'll see - especially since Noel Clarke is now one of the UK's hottest young directors (his latest film recetly smashed a bunch of national records and is apprently really good to boot).
Oh yeah, and the episode WAS awesome on the heartstrings, with all the excellent acting from bascially everyone. Extra kudos to Catherine Tate, who used this whole year to shed her image as a comedy-only actress with the tragic role of Donna Noble. The UK shovels out awards for this sort of thing, and I'm sure that she'll be recognized somehow.
Mark
PS - The Valiant, DAMMIT!!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I kind of liked the idea of the Doctor having another companion with Time Lord knowledge. Oh well.
There didn't seem to be a very good explanation for why he had to toss Rose, Jackie, and Alternadoctor back into the parallel world. "He committed genocide" might be a valid reason for having Rose babysit him for the rest of their lives, but why is he going to be less of a problem in a parallel world than here? Was it just an "out of universe, out of mind" thing?
(I mean, sure, I can see that the Doctor would be too tempted to stay with Rose if they weren't completely cut off from one another. But, you'd think he'd at least get her opinion?)
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I think he was just continuing to fulfill his promise to Jackie to keep Rose safe. The best place and fate for her would be to stay in the parallel world. Jackie's life is certainly there with Pete II and her child, and Rose's life is with this human Doctor, as she wanted.
Finally, I think he was also protecting himself, just as he forced Sarah Jane away. He can't go through watching someone he REALLY cares about grow old and die - one of his true weaknesses. So, seeing this opportunity to give Rose essentially what she wants, he took it, and just as quickly took off.
Mark
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
At the risk of offending our German members, I must say the German speaking Daleks were hysterically funny.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Yeah. As I understand it, "Extermineren" isn't even a word in ANY language.
Mark
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It isn't a proper German word, as far as I know. The German-dubbed Daleks actually say "Vernichten! Vernichten!" ("Destroy! Destroy!").
I suppose the Dalek ranks do not include Grammar Nazis.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Even if it were a word, shouldn't they have been saying "exterminieren Sie"? As it was, it was like they were zipping around yelling "To exterminate! To exterminate!"
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: The Doctor Donna!
Austerhagen key! Nasty business.
New Torchwood team: Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Martha, Mickey?
Rose gets her own Doctor!
Poor Donna.
A nicely succinct summary!
To find someone to replace the value of Toshiko is going to be hard though.
Poor Donna indeed.
Didn't the Doctor say in season 1 or 2 that he might not be restricted to a certain number of regenerations anymore seeing as he was the last of his kind?
I'm glad Sarah-Jane was in the episode, I just wished there was a little more time with her and the Doctor.
Catherine Tate was REALLY good this year. I was suitably impressed. I think she's just behind Rose as my favourite of the new Doctor Who series companions now.
I really loved the flying of the TARDIS towards the end with The Doctor saying that a TARDIS normally required 6 pilots! Makes sense with the hexagonal console. Was this ever mentioned before? It was small but I loved it! Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Didn't the Doctor say in season 1 or 2 that he might not be restricted to a certain number of regenerations anymore seeing as he was the last of his kind?[/QB]
To my knowledge any kind of limit has never even been mentioned in the revival...indeed, regeneration has only been mentioned a handfull of times - largely only when someone regenerates. Being the last of your species, though, wouldn't suddenly mean you can defy your own biology...saying that just because the others aren't around you can regenerate indefinitely is like the last human saying they can now suddenly give birth to a hippo.
On the other hand, The Master piddling around with The Doctor's aging and having his form show the signs of aging minus regenerations last year could be used to claim the regeneration cycles have been reset to zero...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I stopped watching old Doctor Who before some of you were even born, so I can't claim to be an expert. But the key serials I've heard referred to by others are the Fourth Doctor one "The Deadly Assassin" (which establishes the Regen limit at 12, and that more enrrgy is needed to get more) and the Fifth Doctor one "Mawdryn Undead" (which confirms the 5Doc is his fifth incarnation and reiterates Timelords have a set amount of energy). But if it is just a case of getting more energy then I suspect they'll find a way around it somehow. There are all sorts of ways he might do so, which perhaps were barred to the Master, as an outcast and criminal, by mainstream Timelord society. The Doctor might not feel constrained any more by what could just be "not the done thing" when there's no one else around to invoke this taboo.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Even if it were a word, shouldn't they have been saying "exterminieren Sie"? As it was, it was like they were zipping around yelling "To exterminate! To exterminate!"
DALEKS DO NOT OBEY HUMAN GRAMMAR!
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I just re-watched "The Deadly Assassin" on YouTube, they refer mostly to the fact that a Time Lord has twelve regenerations and must accept death afterwards, which the Master was trying to circumvent by accessing the Eye of Harmony - though there was no garuntee that this would work. Ironically, the Master ends up IN the Eye of Harmony at the end of the TVM. Maybe in a roundabout way he got what he wanted, since the next time we see him he's in a new body with resumably twelve more regenerations to waste. He said that the Time Lords resurrected him, but not how; his being in the EoH having something to do with it makes a whole lot of sense.
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