A less spectacular episode than last week, but some important things happened:
- The Cylon baby has died. That scene with Tigh coming to Adama in his grief was the best of the episode, I reckon.
- This has essentially killed off the plan for the Cylons to frak off and start a new life for their own. And it probably means Hera is the Future again.
- Baltar's cult is now an officially sanctioned and armed force in Dogsville, directly opposed to these Sons of Ares. It could represent a religious war between the single God and the old gods?
- Are we assuming Baltar's Head-Six is a guardian/messenger of the same kind that warned the Fabulous Five of the holocaust on Earth?
- Galactica is now very literally becoming a half-Cylon/half-human ship. And it appears the Cylons have been integrating into ship life faster than Adama and Roslin thought.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I thought Adama giving Baltar's cult weapons was about as bad as giving him a nuclear warhead. Judging by the look on the face of the chick holding the rifle, it seems they're gonna use these weapons for more that just protection.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
What least surprises me is how little Ellen has changed, despite her revived memories.
The only confusing thing for me is, just what was Baltar offering in trade for those weapons? I'm assuming that it has something to do with saving the ship, since Baltar mentioned "a Human solution," but what's it supposed to be?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I think his warning about a possible anti-Cylon revolution may have somewhat scared Adama into giving him the weapons.
But whatever Adama's reasoning was, it seems we now have an armed faction of Cylon God worshippers, through the Messianic Baltar and Head-Six, possibly an actual messenger from the elusive One True God that Ellen, in this episode, again claims "we didn't invent".
I strongly suspect Baltar's Cult will actively seek to destroy the Colonial Faith, or at least its military adherents, and replace it with the One True God. It seems a necessary step in becoming like the original Kobol/Earth/Wherever people.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Is Helo dead? I ask because I was assuming that the Sharon who voted to go to the BaseStar was Athena, and if it was, I highly doubt she'd abandon Helo like that. But maybe she was another Sharon.
Also, it looks like the Cylons believe in womens' lib. All the Sixes and Eights are doing all the work to fix BSG, and not a single Leoben to be found. As a matter of fact, we haven't seen a peep out of him since he freaked out about seeing Kara's dead body.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm pretty sure that Eight was a non-voting participant. The titular "Deadlock" was between the Five only.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
Oh Ellen. You slept with Cavil, who is both your son and your father, and you're giving Saul grief?
Pots living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at kettles.
Or something.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
I found Ellen's characterization interesting. I at first thought and hoped that Ellen would be different. Mature, all-knowing, etc... At first I was disappointed she was still the drunk petty woman we've always seen but then I realized that's just her. It doesn't matter that she's a 2,000+ year old Cylon. If her personality has always been a petty, manipulative, conniving drunk then that's what she's going to be. It doesn't matter if she has all her memories or not - Cavil did not change her personality.
This doesn't mean she can't be one of the "good guys." This doesn't mean she can't have been responsible for rediscovering resurrection. It just means that's who she is.
Ironic she's so sick of Tigh and Caprica having a relationship yet she slept with Cavil. Of course that wasn't her complete choice - she wasn't in full command of her faculties or had all her memories at that time. On the other hand neither does Tigh now.
I wonder what it's going to take to unlock all the memories for the other four. Hopefully something besides death.
Are they still in the Sol system or have they jumped elsewhere? I was thinking the whole rebellion took the fleet by surprise. If they did jump it's probably only been one jump. Then the rebellion happened and the damage to Galactica finally brought to the fore. They ain't jumping anywhere now.
I've assumed they were still in Sol system.
Looks like Anders has regained consciousness by the end of the episode. At least the monitors started showing brain activity again.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
The general fan reaction to this episode has been really bad, but it's a shame because it seems as though it wasn't the writing to blame so much as the way it was edited.
Giving guns to Baltar's jubilant harem came off as a completely moronic move on Adama's part because key scenes were cut (possibly to make way for umpteen shots of Adama watching the repair work).
Here's what someone said who saw a longer cut of the episode.
quote:I had the priviledge this evening of watching a slightly longer rough cut at a frak party I attended tonight. And there was something really, really key that they had to cut for time (the rough was 11 minutes longer): there are not enough Marines left alive on the Galactica now to handle all required police & civilian duties.
At the beginning of the rough cut version, the Marines give up on the food distribution, sensing a riot. They abandon the food rations...immediately after they leave, the Sons of Aries show up, guns in hand, and take what is left. Also before the credit roll, Adama/Roslin/Lee are arguing about introducing Centurions into the Galactica to pick up the slack in security issues and policing the civvies on the ship. Adama refuses to allow it. At the end of the episode, Baltar's plea to Adama is longer -- he clearly wants his little cult-turned-militia to pick up guns in service of civilian policing and food redistribution. Use his cult, instead of Centurions.
Still doesn't explain why the F3 and Kara didn't ask Ellen for more answers, after being so intent to find out more from Anders last week. And how Boomer found the fleet is a question, unless Cavil knows exactly where they are but hasn't attacked for some reason?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I was kind of surprised by Galen's immediate vote to leave the Fleet. There wasn't even a second's doubt on his mind, it seems? Was this his old love for Tory coming through or what? I'd always thought he was one of the most 'human' of the lot.
quote:Looks like Anders has regained consciousness by the end of the episode. At least the monitors started showing brain activity again.
I was half-expecting him to open his eyes and shout "JUMP!", and Cylon-Galactica jumping away from the fleet as a cliffhanger.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: Giving guns to Baltar's jubilant harem came off as a completely moronic move on Adama's part because key scenes were cut (possibly to make way for umpteen shots of Adama watching the repair work).
Yeah what is up with that? Adama seems to spend 90% of his time watching the repairs. Perhaps he wants to make sure the Cylons aren't up to something or see everything's running smoothly, but it appears like he's overly obsessed with the ship. Plus there's the fact it seems constantly drinking and/or chugging pills.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: Giving guns to Baltar's jubilant harem came off as a completely moronic move on Adama's part because key scenes were cut (possibly to make way for umpteen shots of Adama watching the repair work).
Yeah what is up with that? Adama seems to spend 90% of his time watching the repairs. Perhaps he wants to make sure the Cylons aren't up to something or see everything's running smoothly, but it appears like he's overly obsessed with the ship. Plus there's the fact it seems constantly drinking and/or chugging pills.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I'm pretty sure that Eight was a non-voting participant. The titular 'Deadlock' was between the Five only."
She wasn't voting, but she was definitely pushing for the return to the baseship.
"Ironic she's so sick of Tigh and Caprica having a relationship yet she slept with Cavil. Of course that wasn't her complete choice - she wasn't in full command of her faculties or had all her memories at that time."
I'm not sue where you got that impression. I thought that the Ellen/Cavil relationship happened back when the Five were still living among their creations.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
The Ellen/Cavil sexual relationship was on New Caprica. Ellen was having sex with Cavil to ensure Tigh got better treatment in Cavil's prison.
At this time Ellen did not know or remember that she was an original Cylon. Had she known she may not have had sex with Cavil - seeing how he looks like her father and is really her "son."
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Edit: -1 redundant
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, Cavill is one sick puppy, so his relationship with Ellen is all down to him. But all the same you'd think she'd cuth Saul a bit more slack, after all, didn't his own relationship with Caprica-Six predate the revelation of his own Cylon-ness?
Interesting info on the alternate cut, there. I was thinking that the interminable shots of Adama moping in the bilges were getting ridiculous (and also quite samey, and is it me or was the Six you kept seeing in the background, doing all the work, played by a stand-in? You never saw her from the front and when seen from the side - barely - she looked different).
And that odd scene in the bar? Kara comments on the piano and gets a blank look from the bartender? No-one's mentioned that, yet. Is she hearing music now? Her father played the piano. We know she's not the original Kara, and could "feel" which way the ship should be jumping. So she could be tuned to receive a signal just like the Four were.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Yeah I think she was a stand-in, looked liked some other chick with a blond wig, at least until the final scene where she posts the picture on the wall.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Yeah, Cavill is one sick puppy, so his relationship with Ellen is all down to him. But all the same you'd think she'd cuth Saul a bit more slack, after all, didn't his own relationship with Caprica-Six predate the revelation of his own Cylon-ness?
No, I'm pretty sure that Saul only started the "interrogations" after he found out. The whole point, IIRC, was that he was looking for answers and insight into his newfound Cylon nature. But of course, he still didn't know about Ellen.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Ah, I forgot about Ellen and Cavil on New Caprica. Never mind.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Yeah, Cavill is one sick puppy, so his relationship with Ellen is all down to him. But all the same you'd think she'd cuth Saul a bit more slack, after all, didn't his own relationship with Caprica-Six predate the revelation of his own Cylon-ness?
No, I'm pretty sure that Saul only started the "interrogations" after he found out. The whole point, IIRC, was that he was looking for answers and insight into his newfound Cylon nature. But of course, he still didn't know about Ellen.
Regardless, he doesn't know/remember much of anything about his Cylon past. He's getting all told to him but isn't remembering, including creating Six.
If/when he finally remembers everything... yikes. Talk about messed up in the head.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: ...And that odd scene in the bar? Kara comments on the piano and gets a blank look from the bartender? No-one's mentioned that, yet. Is she hearing music now? Her father played the piano. We know she's not the original Kara, and could "feel" which way the ship should be jumping. So she could be tuned to receive a signal just like the Four were.
Good catch, I didn't spot that one. Though I do remember thinking to myself "where would they get a piano and how would they get it though those narrow hatches?" Since I don't remember actually seeing it, you're probably right and it makes sense. For one thing it's been a while since Kara's story has moved forward and I'd hate to think they rushed it all into the last couple of episodes.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Apparently you can see BSG composer Bear McCready in the background, though whether he's playing a piano or not I don't know. Red herring? Chance to give him a cameo, as a piano player, while acknowledging the ludicrousness of there being a piano at all. Perhaps it was a synth, although somehow I doubt that post-singularity Colonials are all that into electronic music somehow.
I just can't believe they'd be that blatant, to suddenly show Kara 'activating' like that when they've gone to such lengths to make her as normal as possible (for someone who's been inexplicably resurrected and has even had the chance to cremate her former self, that is). Perhaps the bartender was just a really bad actor and his reply didn't make it past the editing suite.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
What do you mean, post-singularity? They seem like regular humans with spaceships to me. Post-singularity is usually when your entire life is vastly changed at a fundamental level; at least, that's the idea. Even a soft singularity is supposed to make sweeping dramatic changes, and while I'm sure FTL would do that, in BSG it's pretty much Space Is An Ocean, and their daily lives are just like present-day humans.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
Isn't having your AIs evolve on their own and become more powerful than you part of the singularity?
In any case, I think Lee meant that the Colonials might not be fond of synthesised music after synthesised humans/skinjobs had destroyed their civilisation. Although if that were true, having a keyboard turn up in the bar would be another sign of the blending seen throughout this episode. Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Though I do remember thinking to myself "where would they get a piano and how would they get it though those narrow hatches?"
Is that the same bar that they created in an old hangar? The one with the hangar queen Viper hanging overhead?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnny: Isn't having your AIs evolve on their own and become more powerful than you part of the singularity?
Not necessarily. A singularity is simply an event which changes the paradigm and day-to-day life of most people. The technological singularity we're expecting soon might or might not include AIs.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Ask five different futurists what the Singularity is and you'll get seven different answers. 8)
But I meant it, flippantly, exactly as Johnny suggested.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Apparently you can see BSG composer Bear McCready in the background, though whether he's playing a piano or not I don't know. Red herring? Chance to give him a cameo, as a piano player, while acknowledging the ludicrousness of there being a piano at all. Perhaps it was a synth, although somehow I doubt that post-singularity Colonials are all that into electronic music somehow.
I just can't believe they'd be that blatant, to suddenly show Kara 'activating' like that when they've gone to such lengths to make her as normal as possible (for someone who's been inexplicably resurrected and has even had the chance to cremate her former self, that is). Perhaps the bartender was just a really bad actor and his reply didn't make it past the editing suite.
Well I just listened to RDM's commentary and he mentions that there will be more on the piano in the next episode so...let's see.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Indeed. Spoiler pics reveal the presence of a piano player, bearded (but not Bear McRearRy); no indication as to whether Kara is the only one who can see him or not!
Posted by cptmkb (Member # 709) on :
Everybody who can see someone no one else can see raise your hand now please.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Er, if the people, who we can see but no-one else can, raise their hands, do they count?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)