I didn't see a Watchmen post in general sci fi, so, I figured ...
Saturday night, I made my way into Chinatown to watch The Watchmen.
I’m going to start with this: if you’re going to adapt a book into a film, either it needs to be a really short book, or it needs to be a book you don’t mind butchering to fuck. Alternatively, you might want to see if you can sell it as a miniseries instead. Really, off the top of my head, Harry Potter & The Order of the Phoenix is pretty close to a picture-perfect example of a great adaptation of a book, capturing the text in broad strokes while keeping a stead pace. Compare that film with the first Harry Potter film, and you’ll see what I mean (especially if you’ve read the books): the first film follows Rowling’s story almost to the letter, but, holy fuck, it just goes on and on and on.
Sort of like Watchmen. Which just keeps going and going and going. It’s like the damn Energizer bunny.
I didn’t think Watchmen was bad. I just didn’t think it was great, either. I’m assuming Snyder had considerable input on the script, and I wish he’d been a bit more brutal in trimming out story elements. Part of me hates to say that, but I think Alan Moore was right on the money when he said his comic was “unfilmable.” It’s not just a matter of using a comic as a script and storyboard, you’ve actually got adapt the story for a totally different medium.
And that just didn’t happen here.
I didn’t think Watchman was a bad film. But I don’t think it should have been a film — rather, one film. It probably would have worked considerably better as two or three films, released over a couple of years. Most likely, I think the miniseries format — all too often overlooked, or treated only as a vehicle for “back door pilots” — would have allowed Snyder the ability to full and faithfully recreate Alan Moore’s Watchmen.
Some specific reactions:
The opening montage is the (seriously) best part of the film. Without a doubt.
Patrick Wilson as Dan/Nite Owl and Jackie Haley as Rorschach were, to my mind, perfect. Haley captured his character, particularly at the end: “Do it. DO IT!”
Given how long the film runs, and how much time had to be cut from the film, it kind of boggles the mind how long some of the fight sequences were. In particular, the opening sequence between the Comedian and his assailant drags on far too long: Two other fight sequences strike me as overlong, both involving Dan and Laurie: first, in the alley, and second, in the prison. Did we really need all that?
During the flashback where Kovacs “becomes” Rorschach for the first time … I preferred the way it was presented in the book.
Dr. Manhattan’s ‘Little Bronx’ was dangling all about. The first few times we, the audience, experienced full-frontal super hero nudity, everyone gasped (and a couple of people giggled). This I need to stress: there are so much blue balls in this film (literally) that by the finale, everyone had, I think, seen as much blue penis as they’d ever need to. Well, except a coworker of mine who told me today that she though Dr. Manhattan’s penis was the best part of the film (much to her husband’s obvious chagrin, I’m sure).
The ending has been changed. In the book, Veidt has developed some impressive technologies, and teleports a gigantic alien-squid thing into the center of New York City. Fearing that Earth is about to be invaded by aliens, the planet unites. There’s actually a lot more to it than that, but it already kind of sounds ridiculous as is. In the movie, Veidt destroys several cities across the globe in a method which frames Dr. Manhattan as the culprit: fearful of Manhattan’s vengeance if the world doesn’t change its ways, nations unite. Y’know what? As an ending, it works.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
quote:treated only as a vehicle for “back door pilots”
Master, Mate and Pilot, all in one hands-on, self-made man.
I haven't seen the movie yet, will do as soon as it hits the nordics (premiere on friday). I'm referring to "Watchmen" of course, although the prospect of a high-budget, 120 minute Captain Stabbin feature might turn some heads in the movie business these days.
With the intention of enjoying myself as much as possible during "Watchmen", I will be comparing it to "The Spirit" throughout.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Dr. Manhattan’s ‘Little Bronx’ was dangling all about. The first few times we, the audience, experienced full-frontal super hero nudity, everyone gasped (and a couple of people giggled). This I need to stress: there are so much blue balls in this film (literally) that by the finale, everyone had, I think, seen as much blue penis as they’d ever need to. Well, except a coworker of mine who told me today that she though Dr. Manhattan’s penis was the best part of the film (much to her husband’s obvious chagrin, I’m sure).
Well that'll make the family evening interesting.
Posted by Not Invented Here (Member # 1606) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women:
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Dr. Manhattan’s ‘Little Bronx’ was dangling all about. The first few times we, the audience, experienced full-frontal super hero nudity, everyone gasped (and a couple of people giggled). This I need to stress: there are so much blue balls in this film (literally) that by the finale, everyone had, I think, seen as much blue penis as they’d ever need to. Well, except a coworker of mine who told me today that she though Dr. Manhattan’s penis was the best part of the film (much to her husband’s obvious chagrin, I’m sure).
Well that'll make the family evening interesting.
Well, what with the 18 certificate (over here in the UK at least), the sex, and the extreme graphic violence involving chip fat and circular saws it's definitely fun for the whole family!
I watched it last night and actually Malnutured Snay's comments about Dr. Manhattan's penis are representative of my thoughts about the film. In the comic book, I think there are 2, maybe 3 panels with it thanks to clever positioning of characters on Gibbon's part. But more importantly in the comic book you get to see a gradual transition on the Doc's part from mostly clothed to nudity as he loses touch with humanity in the back story. So the fact you see him cavorting around without a fig leaf kind of had a point. That got majorly glossed over in the film due to timing, as did the connection between the two Nite Owls and a whole bunch of other stuff that would take forever to go into.
I watched it with one guy who has read the comic and two ladies who haven't. The ladies both left confused more than anything else and I'm not surprised. It is a long, complex movie just like it is a long, complex comic. Overall I enjoyed it, and the more I think about it now the more I like it. But I've read the book so knew the plotline, which Moore himself has admitted is the least important part of the comic, and so could sit back and enjoy the pretty visuals. Which are very, very pretty. I totally see where Moore was coming from when he said it was unfilmable, but at the same time I'm very happy that someone at least tried and got pretty close.
The Doc Manhattan film ending makes way more sense that the comic's alien ending (But at the same time removes the entire subplot about the comic writer on the cruise ship, which was yet another important subtext of the comic). And I am also very keen to see what they have done with the animated version of 'Tales of the Black Freighter'.
Finally, as a person in my mid-twenties I can't help wondering if the film being 20 years late also hampers it somewhat. There are a lot of themes and ideas (nuclear armegeddon, Nixon being a horrible crook), that while still relevant have faded with time (I'm far more worried about a lone terrorist nuke than all out war, and Nixon is, well, dead). So unless you're a history nerd like I am I would guess youngish audiences might have trouble relating to some of the material. Any people who were older than 3 when the comic was originally published care to comment?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I think I first read it at university in the early nineties. I don't remember exactly when, I do remember putting off buying it many times because of the price. I always had about six to eight hours travelling to get home at the end of the uni term so would have wanted something long to read! I might even have borrowed it off someone eventually, and bought my copy a lot later.
But anyway, the events were set only about five or six years in the past (albeit in a parallel universe), and we were still coming to terms with the end of the cold war, so it certainly felt relevant when I first read it.
Williakm Goldman famously said that screenplay is structure. I don't really understand what he means, not being a screenwriter, but I get the impression that while the plot closely followed the graphic novel's structure, it may not have worked as a film. I think my wife would have found it hard going if she'd seen it with me (she hasn't read the book).
The opening-credits montage was brilliant, but some of the events didn't ring true in and of themselves. Sure they worked as shorthand for plot points that couldn't fit in anywhere else, but lesbian snogging in public on VE/VJ Day? National Guard gunning down students at point-blank range (I don't know what the range was at Kent State, mind)?
Nelson Gardiner got Glorfindeled!
There were, I suppose, three main fight dequences. The one in the alley versus the Top-Knots could have been tightened up (and was really quite violent); The one in the prison was too long and more focus could have been kept on Rorschach's pursuit of Big Figure (but then that was a bit long and implausible in the book); but expanding the fight between Nite Owl, Rorschach and Ozymandias made a lot of sense as they were vanquished far too soon in the book.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Just saw it last night with a couple of friends who've never read the book and the reactions were on the positive side of so-so. Given it's length and complexity, I'd say that's a fairly successful adaption.
As for my own opinion; I'd say it's about as good as one could reasonably expect. Faithful to a fault, yet with it's own sense of style. The soundtrack was very good (but then I am a bit of a Bob Dylan fan) though I did have a juvenile giggling fit during the Dan/Laurie sex scene, due mostly to the rather on the nose music. I mean come on! "Hallelujah"!?
Not sure if I'll be able to sit through the extended edition when it comes out, but I'll probably give it a go.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Saw it today. Pretty good, but very long. But understandable considering the amount of story. Definitely liked the movie ending more that the comic one. Liked seeing Nite Owl beat up Veidt a little.
