First, I don't think we're done with River Song's past quite yet. Why? Because the timeline doesn't make sense. Amy Pond was born in 1989, and "Mels" must have been biologically close to that to be in the same classroom as Amy. However, the regeneration we saw in "Day of the Moon" took place in 1970. Therefore, we either had someone bring "Mels" nearly twenty years further in time, there was an incarnation between "Melody Pond" and "Mels", or both (I suspect both).
According to the time police (or whoever they were), the Doctor's death in "The Impossible Astronaut" is a fixed moment in time. Hmm...
River's ability to pilot the TARDIS is innate, as a "daughter of the TARDIS."
River also gives up her remaining regenerations to save the Doctor. I guess that explains why she doesn't regenerate in "Forest of the Dead".
The Doctor gives River her journal in this episode.
Holographic still images of Rose, Martha, and Donna.
Also, for an episode entitled "Let's Kill Hitler", there's not much Hitler. He gets shoved in a closet fairly early on and forgotten about.
Lastly, this was a pretty short episode. Didn't even last a full hour on BBC America.
EDIT: Almost forgot... The Silence is not a species. It's a religious movement searching for the answer to the ultimate question. Insert "Hitchhiker's Guide" joke here. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Therefore, we either had someone bring 'Mels' nearly twenty years further in time, there was an incarnation between 'Melody Pond' and 'Mels', or both (I suspect both)."
I think they already explained this. While she was trying on clothes, she said that she was contemplating slowly aging backward, just to mess with people. If she can control the rate she ages, she could easily make herself always the right age to line up with Amy and Rory while they were in school.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Krenim: Therefore, we either had someone bring "Mels" nearly twenty years further in time, there was an incarnation between "Melody Pond" and "Mels", or both (I suspect both).
IIRC, there was a line from Melody/Mels/River about how she was a "child in New York" last time she regenerated...so I'd think they intend for River to be the third regeneration. We've never seen a timelord child before, though, so it's difficult to say if they normally age more slowly than a human child. Since the old-Doctor from the series premiere didn't look any older than his 900-odd year old self, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that a timelord kid could still look as young in the 90s as they did in the 70s.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I think they already explained this. While she was trying on clothes, she said that she was contemplating slowly aging backward, just to mess with people. If she can control the rate she ages, she could easily make herself always the right age to line up with Amy and Rory while they were in school.
quote:Originally posted by Zipacna: IIRC, there was a line from Melody/Mels/River about how she was a "child in New York" last time she regenerated...so I'd think they intend for River to be the third regeneration. We've never seen a timelord child before, though, so it's difficult to say if they normally age more slowly than a human child. Since the old-Doctor from the series premiere didn't look any older than his 900-odd year old self, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that a timelord kid could still look as young in the 90s as they did in the 70s.
Both true, although I took River/Melody's comment about aging backwards just as a clever wink to the fact that, although we've been travelling backwards through the character's timeline, Alex Kingston has been playing the role for several years now and has been aging normally.
Has it been established before that each incarnation of a Time Lord can be functionally immortal by choosing not to age? The closest I can recall was the Tenth Doctor's comment in "Time Crash" that when he was young he wanted to be old and grumpy (presumably referring to the First Doctor).
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
My cable provider just got BBC America, so I've missed alot of series. But in anycase, where did the Time Lord DNA implanted from River Song come from. The Doctor himself?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
^IIRC it's from being conceived on-board the Tardis.
quote:River also gives up her remaining regenerations to save the Doctor. I guess that explains why she doesn't regenerate in "Forest of the Dead".
Yes and no. Remember that twice now we've seen the Doctor "permanently" killed before he could regenerate. Once in 'Turn Left' and again in 'The Impossible Astronaut'. From what I remember of River's physical death, it was pretty sudden.
...Actually, I'm not an expert on Who lore so anyone know if they've ever gone into the necessary circumstances surrounding regeneration? Can a Timelord do it any time at will just because the fancy a new look or does it always require a fatal wound or near death crisis of some description?
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: But in anycase, where did the Time Lord DNA implanted from River Song come from. The Doctor himself?
It was explained in the mid-season finale that Timelords gained their ability to regenerate from billions of years of living next to untempered schism and the access to the time vortex that allows. Supposedly by being conceived in the Tardis during flight through the time vortex, River was cooked into a neo-time lord.
Not at all sure about regeneration, but I'm wondering if Romana's regeneration back in the day was a voluntary regeneration. It would explain, at least, why she had so much control over her appearance afterwards.
With River's death in 'Forest of the Dead', the dialogue itself tells us that a timelord wouldn't be able to regenerate following all that stuff. It's why River did everything in the first place instead of the Doctor...she didn't want him dying, changing his future, and thus negating her past.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I seem to recall that it was heavily implied that Romana's regeneration was pretty much just on a whim. There was also a scene once on Gallifrey where a couple Time Lords were talking, and one said something along the lines of "aren't you about due for a regeneration"? Of course, one could assume he was just being unkind, like asking someone "shouldn't you be dead by now?".
I think it's also been implied before that the TARDIS (or some technology that gets installed in TARDISes) is part of the regeneration process. When the first Doctor realized he was dying, he said he needed to get back to the ship. All the subsequent regenerations have taken place in or near the TARDIS (with the exception of one, which was induced on Gallifrey by the Time Lords). This episode seems to have made it explicit, given not-Amelia-Pond's statement that "regeneration is disabled" in the damaged TARDIS.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Actually, I take part of that back. The seventh-to-eighth Doctor regeneration took place nowhere near the TARDIS. Not sure what to make of that, except that it was in the TV movie, and everything in that was fairly ridiculous.
Also, I know the fourth-to-fifth regeneration was outside the TARDIS, but I don't remember how far away it was. It also involved all that Watcher stuff that I'm not sure ever really made sense.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well the seventh was shot outside the TARDIS, maybe regeneration was triggered but slowed down by being moved to the morgue.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
If a Tardis is an integral part of regeneration, that makes River's first regeneration all the more interesting...given that she was in the middle of New York when she regenerated. No Tardis around then!
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well, she's special isn't she Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Also, didn't River have one of those "Timex Vortex Wristbands"? Perhaps that acts in place of a Tardis?
I know that the Eccleston to Tenant utilized regeneration to regrow a hand and IIRC, Tom Baker was put in a situation that was going to require him to use his remaining regens to save people before the Brigadier met himself and caused some energy explosion instead, or some such. My question is, How long does the Regen remain active for? AND, apparently they can control how much they use like River did?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Actually, I take part of that back. The seventh-to-eighth Doctor regeneration took place nowhere near the TARDIS. Not sure what to make of that, except that it was in the TV movie, and everything in that was fairly ridiculous.
Also, I know the fourth-to-fifth regeneration was outside the TARDIS, but I don't remember how far away it was. It also involved all that Watcher stuff that I'm not sure ever really made sense.
I think proximity to the Tardis has more to do with needing a safe place to recover since regenerating leaves him vulnerable. Also, from a real world practical POV, regenerations are usually in cliffhanger episodes and a new Doctor often has to rush off like a maniac for the next episode.
All that aside, there probably is some gizmo in there that either aids the process or could potentially be of some help if something goes wrong. Actually, it's been ages since I've seen the TV movie but now that I think about it didn't the 7th Doctor ask to be taken back to the Tardis while he was on the operating table?
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