Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Sith origins possibly exposed, not really spoilers.

This is topic Sith origins possibly exposed, not really spoilers. in forum Star Wars at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/9/16.html

Posted by Sirmaniac on :

Cinescape On-line says that they were contacted by a source saying the following:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Sith formed 2,000 years ago and were founded by a rogue Jedi knight. Their numbers swelled, but the groups were almost as interested in fighting themselves as they were fighting the Jedi. Then Darth Bane stepped in and exerted his power to make sure the Sith accept only two Dark Lords of the Sith at any given time: Master and Apprentice. This lack of competetion calmed the constant infighting.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, if that's the case, it wrecks some of the comics, which take place 4000 years ago and reference the Sith...

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Speaking about the Sith, anyone know the exact time when Exar Kun became The Dark Lord of the Sith?

------------------
Starfleet Corps of Engineers-Spacecraft Division
www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9266

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
-Darth Vader, Return of the Jedi
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."
-Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Well, according to the Jedi Academy trilogy... I don't know. *shrug*

------------------
"Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri
"I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

4000 years ago.

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."

Posted by Sirmaniac on :

This tidbit might be exapanded upon in a tie-in promotion. I doubt it will be a comic tie-in, because I imagine Dark Horse wouldn't want to contradict themselves quite so much--the same goes for Bantam Spectra, and word is Del Ray will adhere to the canon of the expanded universe (Zahn's books and all) when they get the contract from Bantam (I don't even know when Del Ray's contract will allow them to make novels).

I know Lucasfilms made a bunch of restrictions for the comics and novels, and I know they wanted Zahn to use material from West End Games (Dreadnaughts, Victory-class, etc. . .). I can't say how much Lucasfilm made these restrictions to try to make the stories fit together with the movies.

Star Wars is interesting in being a big universe where vast ideas can be made to fit nicely within the whole, and it would be a shame if Lucasfilm totally upsets the whole. I can't say it isn't Lucas' perogotive, but it seems weird to set groundrules for the expanded universe and then violate them. I'm willing to wait a few months to find out just how much this all might be resolved with the release of the movie, but I can speculate.

Is anyone here expert enough (possibly you Frank) to be able to supply information as to whether the comics seem to violate or adhere to the Sith information we have from Episode I? Lines from the movie I'm thinking of are Yoda's line that there are always two: master and apprentice, Mace Windu's line that he does not believe the Sith could return without the Jedi Council knowing, Maul's line that they will at last reveal themselves (the Sith) to the Jedi and have revenge. Has any Dark Lord of the Sith from the comics taken the title Darth as have Vader, Sidious, and Maul? We can ignore the information in my initial post because I describe its biggest problem below.

The biggest direct conflict the above information has to the comics is the time factor. If the above number were larger, then the comics could take place between the founding of the Sith and the restructuring by Darth Bane. Since 2000 years doesn't give enough time for the comics though, we have a significant problem.

Since I don't know if this little factoid is actually from Lucas, I certainly can't see anyone saying it is the only fact, so I'm just bringing it to our attention.

If Lucas actually made this up as background information but won't put it in the movie, we may never read it. I suppose it is entirely possible that Lucas put this information in an earlier draft of The Phantom Menace, but the nearly agreed upon tenets of what is and isn't canon will disallow its being strictly canon based on early drafts. So the information will be interpreted by two schools (unless I'm missing one) until and unless it is actually put in a Star Wars movie (and even then we will not agree). 1) The information doesn't conflict anything in the actual movie, and therefore falls under the canon unless contradicted clause. 2)Its not being put into the movie doesn't set it in stone, so since it contradicts the comic, it is balogna.

Thoughts? Comments? Stoic silence to wait to see how the Comics fit in with Episode I?

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

A very reliable source of mine has informed me that the Sith started around 5993 years BBY, and the Exar Kun revivied the Sith aroud 3000 years BBY. He seduced thousands of Jedi to the Sith, but one of his followers, Ulic Qel-Droma, rejoined the Jedi and gathered up a bunch of Jedi and destroyed Exar Kun, but not before he could place his soul in a temple on Yavin 4 by stealing all the life forces from the Massassi.

------------------
Starfleet Corps of Engineers-Spacecraft Division
www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9266

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
-Darth Vader, Return of the Jedi
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."
-Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi

Posted by Sirmaniac on :

Yes, that's the story according to the comics and the Jedi Academy Trilogy. What I am wondering is the following:

If the information about Darth Bane is going to be used in any way as official tie-in material (like the Dark Horse comics, Bantam books and Lucasarts games), then it is probably going to be under a similar contract-if not the same contract as the comics. These sources maintain a continuity that this new information would be countering (massively). So, the comics and this new material would be equal in terms of official if not "canon" (in terms of which they would probably also be equal). The problem is, while the comics and this new tie-in material would be equally sanctioned by Lucasfilms, they contradict each other greatly. So, the question: which should be believed more?

Which is most accurate: the comics or this new material? The comics have been around longer, but my question to Frank is whether there is enough in the comics to shed doubt as to their accuracy. I've only read a bit of the comics, but I've never heard much that seems to sync with actual stuff from Episode I. I was wondering if he had heard of comic Sith being called darths, of there being only two, etc. Since the new information seems to work better (though I'd figure the Sith would have been older than 2000 years), I'd be partially inclined to believe it. As posted above, it's always possible this new information may be Lucas' thinking on the subject, though that is speculation.
Lucas' numerous drafts on the movies included much information that he is later recycling, especially names and the sort. These drafts also inlcude a lot of things that he seems to hold as accurate, and this information might be part of his backstory for the Sith.

I'm going to try to see if I can find the original address for this information since I heard it from a source who heard it from Cinescape.

Posted by Sirmaniac on :

I'm going to put the address in a new post: see Mysteries of the Sith.

Posted by Sirmaniac on :

This information seems to come from the Episode I novelization. Sirsteve's Guide has excerpts from the book, and confirms all of this.