Flare Sci-Fi Forums: I'm curious...

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Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

So--Here we have a trilogy of movies, plus one, crazed fans around the globe, a man making millions for something he 'created', and ... is that all?

While Star Wars was entirely George Lucas' invention, was it entirely something that he came up with off the top of his head? I think not. In actuality, "the Force" is something that spans many of the world�s major religions. In Christianity, it is referenced as "the Holy Spirit". In Zen and other religions of the old world, it is seen more as a life giving energy that individuals draw upon; that is mainly how Lucas presents it. There was also an elite class of samurai whose name was (I believe...) J�Dai--pronounced similarly, if not identical to Lucas' 'Jedi'.

The main reason for the success of Star Wars is that it is something almost everyone can relate to. It is the classic tale of good vs. evil; death and salvation; cowboys and indians. The Jedi are a group of people who have gained the respect of fans, which now span generations, why? Because in a world filled with violence and hatred, they combat that. Not as terrorists or cults combat it, but in passive resistance, fighting only to defend and maintain the sanctity of life. Inside many of us in the world today, lies at least a tiny seed of the desire to do that same thing. It�s a calling to make a difference in the world as best as one is able to do. The way of the Jedi emphasizes self-control, and mastery over one's abilities and emotions, not to be confused with ignoring emotions--the Jedi hold emotions as valuable things, but an aspect of the self that can lead to clouded judgement. Is this not something that all of us today could use?

Think of all the times in which you were angry, sad, depressed, disillusioned, and that change of emotional state carried over into your interactions with others, or interfered in performance at work or school. There have no doubt been times when this happened, and you wished that you could have put everything aside to address the problem at hand, rather than dealing with the emotional turmoil inside you as well. Does it seem to much to consider, then, that there could very well be a group of individuals who saw something appealing in this creation of Mr. Lucas', and decided to adopt it as their own practice? What I suggest here is not that there is a group of insane Star Wars fans running about, fighting crime with their lightsabres, levitating sunken vehicles, or heaving large pieces of furniture at each other. Rather, that there is a group of individuals who have come together from all different walks of life, all different religions, backgrounds, and geographical locations, for the purpose of growing together, both mentally and spiritually, and to an extent, physically (through the techniques of martial artistry).

So what I present here, is a question: can Jedi exist outside of Star Wars? If your answer is "no," ask yourself why. My answer is yes. Of course. Why not? I am, after all, a Jedi myself. Doubt me? Why? "You must unlearn what you have learned." I am a member of a group of people who have separated ourselves from the creation of George Lucas�save for using the films and novels and such as examples when we need to make a point. We know it is not possible to create a lightsabre at this point in human evolution. But perhaps someday when humanity uses more than 10% of their minds, we will be able to. Perhaps someday we will also be able to manipulate matter and energy as has been documented in a few cases, and to the extreme that Lucas portrays. So to those of you who do not believe Jedi are an actuality, why is that? :-)

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

A large collection of Star Wars fans running about the countryside? From my own observations, this would merely lead to an increase in Magic: The Gathering sales, and all-night "Forever Knight" marathons.

*shudder*

Of course, I'm unfairly basing this judgement on the actions of a few individuals I know. Still, they're all very creepy.

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"Something I can't comprehend. Something so complex and couched in its equation. So dense that light cannot escape from."
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Soul Coughing

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I also yearn for the moment in human evolution when babies come out complete with lightsabers!

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-Smooth as an androids butt, eh Data?
-Yes, and remarkably similar in appearance!

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Try to be open-minded guys... I've learned much from Weyoun here, and she's serious. There is many things one can learn from such a group. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if she poked fun at your beliefs either.

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"I will remember you...Will you remember me?
Don't let your love pass you by...Weep not for the memories..."
Sarah McLachlan

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Your'e overreacting, Jeff. On the contrary, I concur that there are many things in the Jedi religion that can be learned from. It would be very interesting to listen to such a group, should one exist. If you were offended, J.W, I am sorry.
I don't think the basic scientific knowledge required to form a rod of chaotic energy is generations away, although a lightsaber probably wouldn't be the government's first choice of development.

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-Smooth as an androids butt, eh Data?
-Yes, and remarkably similar in appearance!

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

The Chinese have known about the force for centuries. They call it Chi. I've seen it in action, never learned the art, but I have no doubt it is real.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

You do raise some interesting points JW. Just one thing (it's a personal bugbear).

The notion that humans only use 10% of their brains is one of the most unsupported ideas that has come to be accepted as true by the general public. Humans use alll their brain. You can argue that there is redundancy built in, due to the fact that brain damaged people can compensate slightly, possibly by different areas of the brain taking over certain taks. But the idea that we only use 10% basically means that you could remove 90% of the brain with no ill-effect. Popycock.

And the main problem with a lightsabre is creating the energy, it's getting it to terminate a meter away form it's creation point.

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"Ray...the next time someone asks you if you're a god you say 'Yes!'"
-Winston Zeddmore

Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

Sol--That's about the response i anticipated, actually. but my point was, that we are separating ourselves from Star Wars. and we certainly aren't just running all over the place.

Am i 'creepy' to you?

Liam--while i cannot reference off the top of my head where i have heard that we use roughly 10% of our brains, i'm curious where you've heard that we use ALL of our brains. its possible we are just thinking in different terms here. i suspect what is meant by using only a small portion of our brains is not that the other amount simply goes to waste...but rather that we are only able to access that much of it at a time. think about it--how frustrated do you get when you try to do too many things at one time? and yet, you could do many more things individually, correct?

anyways, i was just curious to see what you guys had to say about this.

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
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Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

I guess perhaps what 10% figure is (which is funny I have heard as little as 5%) is the estimated processing power that is used at any one time. However certain parts of the brain do certain things better. My only guess on the brain power thing is perhaps it's room for expansion

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HMS White Star (your local friendly agent of Chaos:-) )

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Perhaps I'm just missing some final piece of the big picture, but when people start talking about religious orders my Hubbard alarm goes off.

At any rate, I don't really see that much to admire about the Jedi, I guess. Sure, Luke seemed like a nice enough guy and all, but the rest of them? They come off as rather self-absorbed in The Phantom Menace. I suppose there's a slight chance Lucas was aiming for that, but still.

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"Something I can't comprehend. Something so complex and couched in its equation. So dense that light cannot escape from."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

Sol--actually, I didn't mention anything about us being a "religious order". its a way of life. to some it is a religion, yeah. to others of us, like myself, its a tool. i'm still a catholic christian. the force is a tool for me to use to reach my goals in life. but it's not something i 'worship', or whatever.

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}��

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

But we have no midi-chlorians. It says here: "You need to add midi-chlorians to make Jedi". (Quote from "How to serve Jedi")

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An object lowered into acid does NOT push away it's weight in acid.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, not necessarily.

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Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

guys, you are not listening. what i've been saying is that of COURSE i'm not a jedi like luke skywalker or anakin or qui gon or anyone. what i'm saying is that i and a group of people i've met are living that way.

sheesh. i mean, come on. we don't have lightsabres, 99.999% of us can't do telekinesis at all, or anything else like mind alter or telepathy. as for midi-chlorians, something jeff pointed out to me when we saw TPM was that lucas was essentially describing mitochondria, which DO make up all living things. or animals, at least, i haven't studied non-human biology that much.

seriously, though. everything that you guys know about jedi, you know from star wars. what i was trying to accomplish here was to get you to think in terms OUTSIDE of star wars. now i apologize to you all if that's not something thats possible.

Let me lay it out for you.

-I am a Jedi.
-I believe in the Force, as an entity that binds everything together and gives me strength. (For me, one way of looking at it is the Holy Spirit.)
-I pull life lessons from philosophies such as Zen and Buddhism and apply them to my own life.
-I do my best to serve others before worrying about my own wants, learning patience along the way by trusting that things will go in an acceptable manner if i wait for things to evolve in a time frame other than my own.
-My highest priority is the defense of life. Any life. Human life, or insects. Life is a continual circle which I influence and am influenced by. Whether or not i hurt someone or something, or stand idly by while pain is experienced, I am responsible. It is within my power to do something, therefore i have have that responsibility.

I do not have any Star Wars-ish Jedi powers developed as of yet, I am working on that. I was going to begin taking karate as many of my friends do, both for the physical benefits and the mental discipline, but due to a recent injury, i doubt that will be a possibility now. I will find the discipline that I need in other areas, because learning control is part of what this is all about. I try to meditate everyday, although it's gotten harder with school. I use healing techniques when i have a headache or stomach ache or something, and have had mild success, actually. some of this does no doubt have to do with the power of positive thinking....but with enough positive thinking, the power becomes stronger, and the healing more efficient.

Real Jedi are more than sabre slinging good guys out defending the world. We are philosophers, poets, authors; martial artists, handicapped, school age, and adult; anthropologist, journalist, student, teacher. None of us are "Masters"...all of us are Learners. because to truly be a master means having learned mastery over one's self, and that is not something that we consider easy to come by. some of us have tried to place the title on others whom we think deserve it, but those particular ones are always the quickest to refute claims that they are that knowledgable.

I hope maybe you guys understand what I was getting at now. If not, then perhaps my attempt has failed. better luck next time.

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}��

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Hey, I'm all in favor of seeking meaning through Eastern philosophies. But if that's what you're doing, why not cut out the middleman? I mean, Star Wars is, as you say, just a retelling of other stories. Perhaps you should pursue those, and forget about the Lucasian trappings.

It's been awhile since I studied Buddhism, but as I recall one of the central points was that no one could show anyone else the path to enlightenment. You have to get there on your own.

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"Something I can't comprehend. Something so complex and couched in its equation. So dense that light cannot escape from."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

Again--there is no middle man. We are not following EXACTLY, to the letter the "Lucasian" religion. If it MUST be called a religion, then all that we have done is combined different principles from all different types of religions, and a smidgeon of star wars. we are not exclusively one thing or another, so there is no way to cut something out of it. what we practice is NOT star wars, it is NOT zen, it is NOT Budhism, etc, etc. it is a combination of the basic principles of life...reinforced with teachings from different philosophies, which from time to time does include star wars. more often than not, though, we use chinese and japanese stories, zen meditations, things of that ilk.

i'm not sure if i can help you guys understand this, but i wanted to try. that's why i started this thread to begin with.

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}��

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Sorry, if I came off as snippy JW. It was actually my biology teacher who said that we use all of our brains, and laughed when I said that I'd heard we only use 10%. he then pointed out that if we took out 90% of our brains, we'd be gibbering vegetables, or, more likely, dead. And then everyone pointed at my and laughed. The scars are still there to this day.

IIRC, the number of things we can do at any one time is 7. Simple things that is. (I think it's based on the average number of figures that someone can recall instantly in various fun tests ). It's less if they are complex things.

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"Ray...the next time someone asks you if you're a god you say 'Yes!'"
-Winston Zeddmore

Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

Ah, I see. I think we *were* just thinking in different terms then. i know we couldn't get by on 1/10 of our brain....i think that 10% must just refer to how much we can process at one time

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"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}��

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

It's a tricky concept. Most of the brain will still be working subconsciously. It could be how much of the brain we can consciously control at any time. The brain is a pretty complex beast.

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"Ray...the next time someone asks you if you're a god you say 'Yes!'"
-Winston Zeddmore