It has arrived! Some new tech in this one. We see (presumably) First Order walkers and an ungainly land speeder design.
We also see New Republic/Resistance capital ships reminiscent of the Nebulon-B, but without the back part.
We also see A-wings in a hanger bay and in action during the space battle.
I am a bit dismayed though, between the First Order still using TIE Fighters, the Resistance using X-wings and A-Wings, it seems Starfighter development has stagnated. Okay, the TIEs and X-Wings are newer, seemingly more advanced designs. But still with the A-wings, they've been in use since Star Wars Rebels, which takes place 5 years before A New Hope. Now 34 years later, and they're still in use?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Seriously, the Resistance was underfunded and ignored in the last movie, it makes sense that they'd be maintaining and upgrading old fighters that can still fly. Completely new ship designs may look cool, but using similar parts for an upgraded model really simplifies construction and repair costs.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I understand the Resistance is basically getting hand-me-downs from the New Republic, but it would have been nice to see the A-wings modified in some way to establish a distinctive look for the Resistance, just like was done with those X-wings and capital ships.
Also I wonder why the First Order just seems to have TIE Fighters. It's pretty obvious the First Order is being bankrolled by the Imperial Remnant, I think it's been specifically stated in the new canon that this is the case. Why don't they have upgraded TIE Interceptors? They also seem to lack a dedicated bomber craft (like well...the TIE Bomber) which would have come in handy in the attack on Rey's settlement, when she and Finn board the Falcon. I mean they have a new Star Destroyer design, and a couple of new shuttle designs.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Presumably to appeal to the wider masses. Regular TIEs are much more iconic to the Empire than the other designs.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Of course they wouldn't use up all their new stuff in the first movie, just like the OT kept on giving to the end, with ROTJ introducing the Tyderian shuttle, Interceptor, B-Wing, all that stuff. I am sure the A-Wing has been touched up and is a later Mark.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Here are some close-ups of the A-wing from the new film. Interestingly enough, they inverted the paint scheme from ROTJ.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The new A-Wing is bigger- more the size of the McQuarrie design and oddly flatter too- more if a long spatula shape than the old doorstop shape from RTOJ. It's really as much a new design as the T-65.
As to the Resistance bombers, those are sorta Nebulon B meets B-Wing in design, with a t/cross shape from the front. Looks like they get their asses kicked defending a planet- probably where the Resistance base is. Think "Hoth with space defenses".
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
Spoilers ahead:
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Not entirely sure how I feel about it.
I whinced every time General Hux had a scene. He was so incompetent, I just couldn't take him seriously as a villain. He's kind of the Wile E. Coyote of Star Wars.
The concept of the force was all over the place. It was able to do just about anything the scene called for. Ghosts looking more solid than previously, mystic bonds, Leia's avoided death, the mysterious origin of Snoke's force abilities, disappearing pendants, "holo communication" etc...
Rey and Ren had great great chemistry. I hope he gets redeemed in IX and they get lots of Jedi babies.
Yoda's back!
I was disappointed that they killed off Luke. Now all 3 main stars are gone.
[ December 14, 2017, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
SPOILERS!
The big "why?!?" moment for me was this: Why run off to find a master splicer so they can jam the FO's tracking of the fleet so the good guy's can get one brief jump before running out of gas?
Why not just bring back fuel?
Also, why didn't the FO just jump some Star Destroyers to the far side of the system and pincer the fleeing Rebels in real space?
As to SW physics....well yeah. They've always sucked. Always. We see ships "fall" in microgravity as far back as the first SW movie and we've always seen the silliness of ships at constant thrust to maintain speed. It's dorky, but Welcome to Star Wars, kids. It's Space Opera, not Sci-Fi.
Some crazy old guy said that... can't recall his name..
A couple of modeler issues: Whoever designs the new ships needs to be fired. Man was that Medical Frigate awful and everything else was so fanboy awful and uninspired that my pleasure at seeing it all destroyed was doubled.
We lost the radar dish on the Falcon again! I expect they'll give us a round one again just for fun.
I loved Finn's line "They HATE that ship!"
I DON'T get all the hate on this- I felt it was superior to the prequels, TFA and RTOJ- I'd put it fourth in the series of best to worst.
It was no Rogue One, but it had no ewoks either.
Overall, I really loved it- lots if suprised (like killing off Snoke!) and character growth. I laughed many times and had a great time with my best friend and fellow SW junkie. What's to complain about there?
I liked the ending for Luke- finally opening himself completely to the Force and becoming one with it.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Okay, what the crap was that?
I enjoyed almost everything with Rey and Ben. I enjoyed most things with Luke, though I did feel it was pretty rushed. I do wish Ben had made some more interesting choices when given the chance, like "Give the order to stand down, but Hux doesn't listen." Or "Give the order to stand down and then lay siege to the rebels. Because you can always kill people later, you can't unkill them." Going straight back to the obvious status quo because he was able to choke people from a distance wasn't particularly great.
I did like that Rey's parents don't matter. She's nobody from nowhere, and she can still be a hero. I'm less enthused with Snoke not mattering; we had three entire movies explaining how Palpatine rose to power, and we get not a word on this guy? Seriously, someone could have thrown in a sentence or two. But I like the recognition that it's not his story, so I can live with it.
Almost literally everything else about the story was terrible. The fleeing-rebels plot was convoluted nonsense dependent entirely on massive coincidences and bad decisions. There was no sense of urgency or scale, no idea how this First Order group could possibly overrun the galaxy, or how this Resistance/Rebellion/whatever they're calling themselves this week could have posed any threat to them. At no point did anyone in the movie act like a trained and competent member of a military, on either side. The "ragtag fugitive fleet" was done infinitely better in the new Battlestar Galactica. Instead, they decided to rip off the original Battlestar Galactica. "Our civilization has just been annihilated, we have no hope, most of our friends are dead, let's go to a SPACE CASINO!!!"
And how did anyone anywhere think the dialog was appropriate? Half of it was quips, and the other half was repeating things everyone should have already known.
A while back there was this big announcement that Rian Johnson would not be doing Episode 9 because he was being given an entire new trilogy. Everyone was all "OOH, they must LOVE The Last Jedi!" No. They hated it. They knew he'd handed them an incoherent mess, and they couldn't let him anywhere near Episode 9. But they couldn't say in public that they were firing him without tanking ticket sales. So they promoted him to a position he couldn't do any damage. I'm sure that trilogy will never happen.
I am not excited for the next movie.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: There was no sense of urgency or scale, no idea how this First Order group could possibly overrun the galaxy, or how this Resistance/Rebellion/whatever they're calling themselves this week could have posed any threat to them.
On this point I have to agree. Never mind that TFA was just a remake of ANH; never mind that nothing in ROTJ mattered because thirty years later we're right back to the status quo of an evil empire and a small rebellion. The thing that nagged me the most was just how the First Order even rose to power, since it was never actually addressed in the film.
My logical assumption was that the First Order was actually formed right after ROTJ as a defense force for the New Republic (i.e. a force for good) made up from the remains of the Empire's arsenal after Palpatine and Vader died, which would explain why the FO ships look so much like Empire ships. Only after Snoke took control of the FO did it become evil.
However, the idea in TLJ that weapons dealers sold arms to both sides (and judging by the holograms of Imperial TIE Fighters, TIE Bombers, TIE Interceptors, AT-STs, and Rebel X-Wing Fighters, this was going on during the Empire/Rebellion as well), kinda throws this idea out the window. Apparently Snoke built up the FO by himself over 30 years by buying a bunch of ships that looked suspiciously like Empire ships, and no one gave this a second thought?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
That's something my wife caught, and she does NOT pick apart movies like I do: why is the First Order buying ships? Buying ships is what you do when you have money but no industrial base. They built a freaking ultra-super-duper-Death Star!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I was under the impression that the First Order was what remained of the Empire in the parts of the galaxy where it was able to hold on to power. I don't remember if that was made explicit in TFA, though, or if it's something I read about online (like it was in a novel or a comic or something).
Oh, and, since I haven't weighed in yet : TLJ was not a good movie, and definitely not a good Star Wars movie.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: That's something my wife caught, and she does NOT pick apart movies like I do: why is the First Order buying ships? Buying ships is what you do when you have money but no industrial base. They built a freaking ultra-super-duper-Death Star!
They don't buy ships- they have a huge industrial capacity. They buy ship designs.
I think we'll see that sorta thing in our own lifetimes on a micro scale due to 3D printing. Why run to Walmart for something you can make yourself- IF you have the files to fabricate it.
One thing I really liked was how ALL the convoluted decisions the Resistance made blew up in their faces.
If Holodo had so much as explained her "plan" to everyone in an Akbar style way, all those Resistance fighters would have been spared. Leia demoted the wrong person.
Hopefully the next movie takes place several years later- as ESB did from ANH- and we see Rey teaching students, Poe gathering a New Rebellion and Finn and Rose...er...in a stable dyad relationship with Poe and Rey?
I'm really hoping they pass on some love-triangle (quadrangle?) nonsense.
I'd actually like to see Poe as somewhat force sensitive- explaining his starfighter mastery that far outpaces anything we've seen outside of Kylo's flying.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I'd also like to see that time jump, and see Kylo Ren completely not in charge. His explanation of what happened to Snoke is completely ridiculous, and everyone has to know it. "An unarmed girl killed Snoke and all his guards and left me unconscious but otherwise unharmed and then escaped." Riiiiight. Episode 9 better start with him being utterly unable to rule the galaxy because force choking people only gets you so far in life.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'd like to see him completely unable to rule because he's an immature baby with godlike powers and zero self control.
Also, because he's surrounded by utter fuckwits like Hux.
Really, I expect Hux will kill Kylo in the same way Thrawn was killed by the Nogri. You can only kick a dog so long before you get bit.
Then there's the missing Knights of Ren....or we're those the Pretorian Guard? Probably not but...there seems a resemblance in their outfits.
I'd also like some insight into Snoke- maybe with Kylo Ren looking for whatever made him so casually powerful. (Moron though he was)
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: They don't buy ships- they have a huge industrial capacity. They buy ship designs.
That's not the impression I got. The entire context of the gambling planet and the codebreaker's revelation was that both the FO and the Resistance were actively buying ships and weapons. Not the designs for them. When you want to buy a gun from a gun seller, that gun seller isn't selling you blueprints on how to build the gun. He's selling you the gun. Because if he sold you the blueprints, then he'd be out of a job because you now know how to build the gun yourself and don't need him anymore.
[ January 01, 2018, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Possibly for the Resistance, you're right- but the Essential Cutaways book shows the Supremacy to be a giant mobile factory- even manufacturing Star Destroyers! I can't imagine why they'd outsource fighter manufacturing with that kind of capability.
But it DOES make perfect sense for the Resistance to buy what they need. Maybe even for the New Republic to do so- to keep powerful commerce concerns from defecting completely to the FO side.
Really though,it seemed to me that the wealthy were playing with sides against each other to cash in.
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