Flare Sci-Fi Forums: The ad for "Pearl Harbor" in NG, May 2001

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Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :

Inside the National Geographic magazine for May 2001, there is a two page ad for the upcoming film "Pearl Harbor". If I had a functional scanner, I would scan the ad.

I think this is one of the clearest examples of the limitatations of the current SFX-CGI (Computer Generated Imagery).

The scene is this-
We are at a baseball diamond at a military base. Children were playing baseball when they look up and see Japanese planes flying overhead. By overhead, I mean these planes are flying just above the fence line, approximately 15 or 20 feet above the ground.

I think the problem with this image is that there is a sharp contrast between the live elements-the people, the baseball field, the fence-and the CGI effects-the planes, the base, which is seen in the background. The CGI is out of focus, two dimensional, and the lighting is out of synch. This is can be seen in the boy who stands in the foreground, left of center- and the lead plane-right of center.

Further complicating the issue is the flight paths of some of these planes. There is one plane southwest of the lead plane mentioned above which seems to be flying into the fence.

I feel that the creators of the ad took elements of two separate scenes-the baseball game and the planes in flight-and cut and paste them into a scene of improbablity.

If someone can scan this image, I would be grateful. I would like to hear other peoples opinions on this topic.

Thank you.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Sweet Jesus, not an FX scene with errors in it! I mean, no model-based FX shot ever had a mistake in it, huh guys-who-worked-on-"Darmok"?

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"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

Actually, torp launchers could very well perform a double role

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie. Michael Bay is, without doubt, the most visual director out there today. Compare, for example, Bad Boys, Rock, Armageddon with any of Kevin Smith's films: you can just SEE the difference ...

Bay'll have thirteen different cuts of one scene, and Kevin'll just have one wide shot ...

I'm sure the CGI mishap on the ad was just a mishap on the ad: seeing the Pearl Harbor trailer in theatres (on repeated occasions), I didn't really notice any obvious glitches with the CGI. And looking at the massive amounts of CGI in both The Rock and Armageddon, I really couldn't see any errors in either of those films, either.

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I don't think contrasting the work of Michael Bay with that of Kevin Smith is realistic. They do different kinds of films! Might as well compare him to Woody Allen or Ingmar fucking Bergman, for Christ's sake. . .

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Phasers

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Granted. Except, Smith has been attached to some action films in the past -- anyone remember Death of Superman? And, while they haven't gotten off the ground, it's very conceivable that he will soon be at the helm of an action flick ...

Okay -- Bay with Frakes? Totally different styles.
Bay is very much a visual kinda guy -- I don't think any cut lasts longer than a few seconds. I think he sets up 7 to 8 camera for each scene so he can play around with it quite a bit. You've got angles up, down, across ... quick cuts, pans ... rarely does Bay set up a wide shot, and when he does, he usually does something with it -- a pan across or up, a moving shot, etcetra ...

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited May 10, 2001).]

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

What massive amounts of CGI in The Rock? A bit of missile launching, and Tony Todd off on a spin was about all that I remember.

Although the scene where Cage came out of the church did look a little suspect...

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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.

"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Perhaps I overstated things ... but the F-18 flyover and bombing of Alcatraz was all CGI. The Trolley explosion during the chase was a mix of CGI and real effects. See how good it was ... ? You didn't even realize it!

Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :

You want massive amounts of super realistic CGI? Wait for the Final Fantasy (only in name, nothing more) movie to come out.

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"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."

Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :

Of course, the main problem with CGI is that it can't count: the flight of F/A-18's kept changing size in The Rock! The again, are humans that much more reliable...?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I've heard the effects in "Enemy At ze Gates" were very expensive and detailed. Haven't seen it.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Hmm, speaking of continuity errors, didn't the Japanese fly in straight over the ocean?

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I haven't seen the ad in question. I've seen some trailors on TV and it looks good.

IIRC the Japanese planes would been close to the ground since they approached Oahu through a mountain pass. Probably to avoid radar. I use to live in Hawaii and since been interested in the attack on Pearl Harbor.

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"Let me ask you something, Mr. Garibaldi, a purely philosophical question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid do you think I am anyway?" - Bester
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Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Well, they were DETECTED on radar, so that ploy obviously didn't work.

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Obviously they were detected too late.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

*L* Actually, according to what' I have heard, they were picked up on radar and the commanding officer was duly warned. However it was thought that the incoming fleet of Japanese planes was a shipment of American planes which would have been coming from the same direction. So it was ignored. After tracking the fleet for a few more minutes, the radar station was shut down. It was no more but a nagging in the backs of the minds of the radar techs until the actual attack began.

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :

I think they thought the detected planes were a flight of B-17s they were expecting, never mind they would have been coming from the wrong direction and IIRC ahead of schedual.

There's also the popular theory that that the guys on top knew of the attack (considering everyone else, from the Brits to the Chinese, knew about it) and wanted it to happen.

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"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

The only thing I find so damning about that theory is that it means FDR was willing to lose the entire Pacific Fleet, and thus a chance to actually win against Japan, just so he could enter WWII. It's just so ... stupid, desperate or no.

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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."

-Eleanor Arroway, "Contact" by Carl Sagan

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Well, except that ...

a) The ships bombed were old World War I battlecruisers -- their loss would be no big deal. And the Carriers were out to sea ...

and ...

b) The Japanese were well aware that if the US declared war on them, they would lose. They hoped to deliver a strong enough assault that the US would cave in to the Japanese demands regarding raw materials (metal and fuel, which I believe we had stopped selling them). Anyway, I think FDR probably knew that if it came to war, the loss of the Pacific Fleet might lengthen the conflict, but it wouldn't cause irreperable harm to it.

However, I don't believe the conspiracy theory. As I understand it, the Japanese fleet refueled their carriers en-route, which is something that either they had never done before or no-one had ever done before -- in essence, they performed the "Yamamoto Manuever" and caught everyone flat-footed.

Not to mention that there were countless American targets closer to Japan -- the Manila Island, the Philipeanes, etc. -- that were believed to be the most likely targets of Japanese aggression.

Does anyone know when Pearl Harbor opens ... ?

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

"Compare, for example, Bad Boys, Rock, Armageddon with any of Kevin Smith's films..."

Smith's are watchable, whereas the others you mention represent the death of everything that is good and right with the world, and can be directly linked to the deaths of babies and old women across the planet?

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

WHAAAAT -- ?

Duuuuuude ... Bay's movies rock! Okay, sure, they're not excellent "dramatic" story-telling, but they're just ... beautiful ...

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

C'mon now, Bay is pretty awful. He can make stuff blow up artistically, yes. But artistic filmmaking goes far beyond having burning cable cars sliding down hills in a visually captivating way.

The one thing that bugs me the most is that every movie he's directed has had an awful script, and as a director he makes no effort to tone it down the schmaltz. Weepy girls, everyday American boys-come-heroes, and rumbling patriotic music as the American flag flaps in the breeze. Puh-leeze.

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"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Well, Armageddon certainly is heavy on the patriotism ...

Not quite so much the Rock ... and rarely (if at all) in Bad Boys.

But ... er ... I don't judge a shoot-'em up movie by the same standards I do a tear-jerker flick. As far as action flicks go, Bay's on top.

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Bad Boys is hereby absolved of patriotism. But The Rock? C'mon... "We're marines and we're the best!" "Eagle squad one and two." "Step up son and save your country." It wouldn't be so bad if every character wasn't a plain-and-simple stereotype...

(And, if I may digress, you have no idea how much I hatehatehate the entire sequence where Nicolas Cage gets punched, kicked, and knocked flying while a fragile ball of neurotoxin is in his shirt pocket. This is beyond nitpicking, this is being distracted by awful filmmaking.)

Don't get me wrong, The Rock is a fun action movie, and on the whole I find it quite a bit of low-brow fun. Connery is hilarious, there's some cool action scenes. But it's not light years ahead of what John Woo or many other action directors can do.

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"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Oh -- but that car chase!

Marines aren't the best. Everyone knows that Navy SEALs are the best. Okay, they're not portrayed so in the flick, (actually, there's a supplement on the DVD -- ::awaits the Wrath of Lee:: where the SEALs who worked on the film -- only Michael Biehn was an actor, the rest were real SEALs -- criticize the movie's approach in that regard) but I thought it generally acknowledged that the US Navy SEALs were the foremost Spec Ops group in the world ... ? Maybe this is just my ignorance speaking...

Anyway, in regards to the US, the SEALs and the Marines are the best. You ain't gonna see a bunch of Air Force mechanics storming an island prison, are you ... ?

And The Rock also has a killer score by Hans Zimmer going for it. And Armageddon has one by Trevor Rabin. WOW! Talk about cool music ...

Er. When DOES Pearl Harbor open anyway ... ?

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I'm so fed up with Hans Zimmer's music from The Rock, Crimson Tide and such. It's so full of itself.

And Bad Boys has the most recent example of nauseating "goody-two-shoes" behaviour. You know, the bad guy is at the hero's mercy, and he wants to pull the trigger so bad (although Martin Lawrence had no particular reason to shoot him).
But his partner has to go "No, Jim/John/Jack/Frank, don't do it. You'll never get her back that way. And you'll be no better than him if you do.
Then, of course, the bad guy has some trick up his sleeve and must try to kill them anyway, making it fully legal and toootally different to shoot him now. I luuuv self defense, baby!!!
Talk about hypocrisy...

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

And T�a Leoni belongs on ricki lake!

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

When I was checking Pearl Habor out I saw that Jurassic Park III is ready. Has it gone up in the states?

Hmm, the plot is about the original JP-crew + T�a Leoni who are rescuing a boy who've para-glided down on a dinosaur island.
Gee, I wonder if the boy will make it?

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

How about someone just post the fucking release date ... ?

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Memorial Day, May 28th.

Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :

Actually, Ibelieve it opens on May 25th

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Yeah, you're probably right. The previews say Memorial Day, my calendar has it as the 28th (observed).

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

DVD?! *splutters wuth rage* And the SAS are way better than the SEALs.

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Phasers

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I believe the SAS and the foreign legion is at the top, performance wise.
Then you can always discuss functions and special missions. The SAS is suitable for both antiterrorist activity and spec ops during wartime.
The legionnaries and SEALs wouldn't do too good in a suburban area, methinks. Neither would Rangers. Would get messy...

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

Well with

TEH AER STRICKZ!!Z!Z
SUPA NAPAMME GuNSH1ppSSSS aN MAEGATRONN!!!

yes, I'd imagine it could.

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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.

"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"