Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Bonehead HTML programming question

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

No, this isn't about Minbari.

I know how to write HTML to show a picture.

I know how to write text above or below it.

What do I do to write text in a paragraph BESIDE a picture?

So that . . And that the text
The pic . . Goes on beside it
Is Here . . Until it ends and

then goes on underneath it until the paragraph ends?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I'm not sure you can have multiple lines of text beside a picture unless you use a table, or something like that.

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

<img src="" style="float: left">Text goes here, and will flow around and below the image.

You can also float right.

Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :

That's right, of course.

Still, I would rather use tables to structure a webpage. Tends to avoid having a page looking like a simple Word-document.

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

You can also use the tag align="left" or align="right" inside the image tag. That works the same way.

But looking at Charles's recommendation, I'm guessing that the "align" tag is actually not considered valid HTML anymore? Or at least, not for the most recent specifications?

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

According the O'Reilly HTML book I'm reading, the align tags (and several other presentation tags) are being phased out in favor of stylesheets and inline style commands (like what Charles posted).

Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :

Tables are eeevil! I will never forgive them... for the death of my site.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I love tables; they're so much fun. Especially when you nest them 10 deep. With vivid 50kb backgrounds and text augmented with the "blink" tag. Ooh, and you can't forget the embedded .mid with no visible control panel. Spot on!

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
According the O'Reilly HTML book I'm reading, the align tags (and several other presentation tags) are being phased out in favor of stylesheets and inline style commands (like what Charles posted).

Ah, that's what I guessed when I saw Charles's tip. Thanks for the tip there!

I've made it a point to get as many of my pages as possible verified by the W3C's validator. I haven't gotten to all of them, but I know that I'm pretty close to clean code. (I use XHTML 1.0 Transitional.)

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

right now, the Trekker's Galactopedia contains 3.44 megabytes of HTML code.. i'm crapping myself trying to think about having to go debug old tags out of there. are definition lists (the DL, DD DT tags) still kosher?

BTW, for tables madness.. check out my old 'insignia' page: http://captainmike.org/Galactopedia/insignia.html the Starfleet rank chart actually hurt to code..

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

You're a step ahead of me, MinutiaeMan. The W3C's XHTML validator craps a brick whenever it reads any of my code. I've got a lot of deprecated tags to replace. My CSS isn't too bad, but my being generous with the quotation marks has caused Mozilla to tell me to screw off.

Mike, as far as I know, the definition lists are fine. It's generally the stylistic things that got bumped in favor of using styles (image and text alignment, margins, etc). The things that affect content (like lists, tables, etc.) remain. Hopefully, Charles will bounce back in here to do a better job explaining.

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
You're a step ahead of me, MinutiaeMan. The W3C's XHTML validator craps a brick whenever it reads any of my code. I've got a lot of deprecated tags to replace. My CSS isn't too bad, but my being generous with the quotation marks has caused Mozilla to tell me to screw off.

I bought a copy of of Macromedia Studio MX a early back in the summer. It's almost -- though not perfect -- compliant with the W3C specifications from the get-go. I only had to add a few id tags to some of the images and tables.

I dunno if there's something equivalent for Windows, but there's a shareware program for Mac that can automatically send a whole string of URLS in succession to be validated by W3C. It's pretty handy.

But for checking individual pages, I've found that correcting one of the first problems can often remove a whole string of later errors reported in the first validator report.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

What is this crazy W3C thing, and can I have some pie?

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

http://www.w3.org -- It's the World Wide Web Consortium. It's the organization that Microsoft and Netscape ignored when designing their browsers.

And, yes, you may have some pie.

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

They're an interesting bunch.

One imagines their Christmas parties consist of a lot of standing around sipping eggnog and getting all communally hissy about coders who don't put quotes around variables in HTML tags before retiring to the fireside and smugly congratulating the guy who realized W3C would be a whole keystroke easier to type than WWWC.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I assume that between the first two quotation marks is where I put the location/name of my image, since that's where I'm used to putting it, after 'img src'.

Yes?

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

Yes, that is correct.

Members of the W3C tend to discuss tag soup and implementing the hebrew numbering system in the CSS3 specification.

All hail Ian Hickson.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

They are more fun than multiple orgasms!

Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :

But not quite close to a good curry.

Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :

"They are more fun than multiple orgasms!"

Seeing as you've likely never had one, the validity of this statement is questionable at best.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I fear that my having multiple orgasms would cause a testicular implosion. It could create a black hole... in my pants.

Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :

Liam..I hate to be the one to say this... but you are a liar....

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Okay, I admit it, I am lying. Implementing the hebrew numbering system in the CSS3 specification is much more fun that multiple orgasms.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I still say that men having multiple orgasms would cause a black hole... in the pants!

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

For Siegfried's edification.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Bah, you can't believe everything that's on the net.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

If you say that after reading that article you didn't try and tense that muscle, you're a big smelly liar.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

I read the article and indeed did not try to tense that muscle. Call me what you will, sir, but I did not tense that muscle.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Did you have relations with that muscle?

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Yes, I did have relations with the muscle. However, I did not tense that muscle.

Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :

Okay, I have a programming question of my own. Is there any way to have a specific font size within a table without having to put

code:

<td><font size=""></font></td>

ad infinitum?

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

<table style="font-size: x;">

Where the 'x' is, put the size. For example, replacing the 'x' w/ "12pt" will give you 12-point font. I don't recall offhand all the formats it can be in, or whether you can use the 1-7 "font size" scheme, or the +/- system.

Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :

Hot damn! This'll save a lot of time... [Big Grin]

Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :

Okay, another puzzle. I'm making a new page, and I figured I'd try and make it W3C compliant. But, it doesn't seem to like me using the link to a CSS tag and <div...> tags. Also, it doesn't like the <p> and <dl> tags I have in there, either. What's up with that?

http://topher.pleh.net/sfp

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

All tags that are opened must then be closed again. [Razz]

Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :

I closed the div tag. I closed the dl tag. I closed the p tag. [Razz]

When I close the link tag, it still complains about that and then says that the body tag is invalid. It still complains about the div, p, and dl tags. Even though they're all closed.

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

A couple of tips:

First, listing your font as "Swiss 721 Light BT" will leave everyone stuck reading your site with either Times or Arial (or whatever their default is) -- I don't think that Swiss one is one of the commonly available ones (I don't have it, at least). I would suggest picking something common (and cross-platform ) like Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, Times...
I don't think that you need to specify the alignment for a horizontal rule, if you want it centered -- I'm pretty sure that's the default.
All HTML tags are supposed to be lower case. (Check the image tag, for one.)
Using "em" and "strong" instead of the old italics and bold tags would be a bit more forward-thinking, but not required.
And finally, as Charles pointed out, all of your "dd" and "dt" tags need to be closed.

Caveat: I'm hardly an expert in HTML; most of this is what I've picked up from working with Dreamweaver and doing a bit of hand-coding to tweak things. I may be wrong on a few of the suggestions above.

But overall, that's a decent start. I know that MY first web page looked pretty horrible. And I didn't even learn a single tag of HTML until two years after I made that page. (Y'know how I got the LCARS appearance? The graphic was the background, and I just had blank paragraph tags to shift the text down, and used a blockquote to shift it over. Pretty bad... [Wink]

)

Posted by E. Cartman (Member # 256) on :

"The graphic was the background, and I just had blank paragraph tags to shift the text down, and used a blockquote to shift it over. Pretty bad..."

No, pretty creative (LCARS interfaces, yegh). [Big Grin]

Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :

Well, see, that's the thing: I don't like the default fonts. So, I use Swiss 721. I'm going to put a link to download it somewhere. Anyways. As it stands now, all the tags on that page are closed. But no one seems to be able to tell me why it doesn't like the link and div tags...

Aww... Lookit that. Danny's first page. [Wink]

When did you make the switch to Dan? And you used that horrible, horrible, TNG monitors font... *shudder*

As for my first page, well, I forget what it was to tell you the truth. It's long since gone, though, as it was on GeoCities before The Big Takeover, and I've forgotten the area and number block of Area51 it was in, along with username and password. I have a rather old version of my (used to be) main page somewhere... Aha. Okay, Here's a version of FSP from a few years ago... Forget when. Don't click on any links, 'cause you'll only get 404s. [Smile]

The version I had on VirtualAve is still there (WARNING! Dangerous popups ahead. Enter at own risk). Then I moved to my ISP's server. I haven't done much with that page since, though.

Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Topher:
Aww... Lookit that. Danny's first page. When did you make the switch to Dan? And you used that horrible, horrible, TNG monitors font... *shudder*

I used that horrible "TNG Monitors Plain" font because that was the only one I could find in my limited Internet forays at that time. (It was 1997, after all... [Wink]

)

And the story behind my change of nicknames is actually kind of interesting. I was always called Danny for the first eighteen years of my life. I never planned on changing it. But when I moved into my dorm on the first day of college, I put "Dan" on my nametag instead -- without thinking too much about it. Since then, I've always introduced myself as Dan, although plenty of my family still call me Danny since that's what they're used to.

Back on topic...

Regarding the fonts, what I'd suggest you do is specify the Swiss font first, and then specify at least one backup font (since a great many of your visitors won't go to the trouble of downloading and installing a whole new font just for your web page). All you have to do is list the two fonts like so:

code:

<font face="Swiss 721 Light BT, Arial, Sans-serif" size="-1">

That will tell browsers to use the Swiss font if it's available, then try Arial, and finally any sans-serif style font. It gives you more control over the presentation.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

BTW, a separate CSS file linked with [link href="url" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"] is a lot easier than using that FONT tag over and over again, or using inline CSS everytime.
Topher, instead of putting the HR inside a div with inline CSS, you could use:


hr {
  text-align: center;
}

either in a styleblock or a linked CSS-file.

Remember: CSS is your friend 8-B

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Unlike inline frames and JavaScript, which are shoving sharp pointed things up my ass at the moment.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

And mine, actually. Remember my site? It don't work in Mozilla. I also use Javascript and iframes, but the Javascript seems to work, so I'm guessing that's not it. Any clues?

And I don't suppose anyone can give me tips for embedded fonts? They may be more trouble than they're worth, but I'd really like for people to be able to see my sites in Tempus Sans ITC.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Well, actually, I seem to have fixed it. Amazing, what happens when you fix about a hundred mistakes found by a validator...

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Embedding fonts with monkeys.

I get a blank page in IE6 instead of your webpage. Weird.. I can view the source, and I don't see anything that could cause this.

Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :

I also get a blank page in IE6

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Funny, I do, too. Anybody have any clues?

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

The problem's in my Javascript code. I've commented that line out, and it works fine. Minus my countdown, of course.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Heh. Two methods of embedding fonts. One is IE only and therefore sucks, the other you have to pay $150 for working software. Frellit.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Ah! IE won't let you end a script tag with /> You have to actually have a seperate tag to close it.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Why would you want to have a script tag w/o any actual script? You probably could put "<script />", but it wouldn't do anything.

Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :

Script is the exception to the rule - it has to have an independant close tag

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Why would you want to have a script tag w/o any actual script? You probably could put "", but it wouldn't do anything.

You'd have to link to the script in an external file, as an atribute of the tag. Which, coincidentally, is exactly what I did. [Smile]

And how do you post the text of a tag in this thing, anyway? It keeps thinking I've posted the tag itself (or disallowing it, depending on the tag), and with this new edit function, I can't see how you did it.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Ah, I'd forgotten about external script files. A moment of brain inactivity, apparently.

To make the <script> tag show up, I used the old method of getting around swear-word filters: I typed "<scr<i></i>ipt>".