I enjoyed Warcraft II. Great game, great gameplay and really good atmosphere.
Warcraft III still has the atmosphere to a certain degree, but one thing is really bugging me... IT'S SO DAMN DIFFICULT.
In WC2, you could just play a single player 'custom game' for fun. You playing against the computer, on a fair speed, and plenty of time to think about your actions. In WC3 however, you're attacked within seconds, the computer builds huge amounts of units in no time, and you have to put every bit of energy into the game. It's so very very frustrating!
I've had this with more games recently. They are getting increasingly more difficult, complex and time consuming. You have to read through countless of pages of indepth analysis of unit strengths and weaknesses, priorities, strategies and whatnot. What ever happened to the old games that were simply FUN?
(I have to mention Serious Sam here. What a great game that was! Very enjoyable shoot-'em-up with large numbers of stupid enemies and Very Big Guns and no storyline at all!)
(I also have to mention Black & White! God, what an annoying game. That stupid creature never does what the heck you want him to do. I don't want to argue with my computer games!)
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I haven't bought anything new lately, but I've been playing Civilization III a lot recently, and of course on occasional StarCraft game or two against my girlfriend.
Oh, and also F1 2002 on my dad's computer downstairs. Although I keep getting screwed over and something fails on the car before I can finish a full race.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The359: "Although I keep getting screwed over and something fails on the car before I can finish a full race."
Try thinking about baseball.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
WC3 is difficult only because the AI receives huge bonuses to building construction times, unit training rates, income per peasant/peon/acolyte/whisp, doesn't suffer from punishing upkeep like a human player, has the ability to cast spells a gazillion times quicker, etc. Not because there are clever algorithms at work. It's dumbed down enough as it is, anyway.
Also, comparing SS to WC3 in terms of how great a challenge they offer is an exercise in futility... mindless shooters cater to different tastes than deep & involving strategy games, and wether a game appeals to you depends on the type of gamer you are.
"You have to read through countless of pages of indepth analysis of unit strengths and weaknesses, priorities, strategies and whatnot."
That's a bit of a stretch. Sure, complex RPGs might require you to do a little homework, but you can't tell me WC3 puts such demands on you.
"What ever happened to the old games that were simply FUN?"
Remember, you were younger when playing those, ie. they enjoy the benefit of being watched through the rosy glasses of nostalgia.
Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :
There's a simple way to get around the computer in wc3. It cheats. So cheat back. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I've become very addicted to "Civilization III" in the past year or so, and am eagerly looking forward to the "Play the World" multiplayer version due to be ported to the Mac sometime soon...
I know you're looking for un-complicated games, but "Master of Orion III" is supposed to be a pretty good game, too.
As for simpler games... well heck, I can't remember any truly simple games that were still fun. I enjoy the strategy, figuring out how to get things done, and so forth. Even the venerable classics like "Star Trek 25th Anniversary" were pretty challenging in their own way...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Counter-Strike ...
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: The359: "Although I keep getting screwed over and something fails on the car before I can finish a full race."
Try thinking about baseball.
Baseball sucks though. Especially as a computer sim.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
How about an air assault combat game? I heard that "Gulf War II: The Revenge" just arrived in stores this evening and is a real hit on CNN.com... Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
I'm starting on Counterstrike though. Does anyone know how to set up voice audio on CS?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I haven't had any luck with it ... BUT! If you go here, and post in the tech forum, they can most likely help you. I got this from an older post there:
quote:a) Microphone: make sure its plugged into the back on the right spot most default sound cards have 3 little holes, then go to sound in systray files,advanced options make sure MUTE for microphone is not checked.
Once that is complete try ms sound recorder
programs,acessories,entertainment, sound recorder. (this is for xp pro) i think its bit diff in 98.
Try that to see if it records. If it does record then we know it works.
From there setup the sound recording thing in Halflife
(I skip that sound recording because it sux doesnt give you correct levels of recording.) for your case i recomend u try it.
remember bind x "+voicerecord"
Make sure to find the [EGBT] Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow server. It's aggressive gameplay (as in, if you're on the offensive team, and you camp before the objective is completed, you will be slayed/kicked/banned), so be prepared!
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Right now I've been playing the original Starfleet Command. And Arcanum. Really good CRPG.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I've actually been playing "Birth of the Federation" all over again...I forgot how cool it was in its day.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Aye! Too bad it's flaws sucked so badly, and they never released a sequel that fixed 'em.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
They had at least one update that I am aware of. What specifically are you speaking of?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
StarCraft, Counter-Strike.
That is sooo 20th century. :-)
Granted, we play CS at the office during lunchbreak, eight of us.
My current games are "Neverwinter Nights" and that's about it, I pour all my strength into that game and there's no room for another game at this time.
Looking forward to "Runaway: A Road Adventure", though, it's been long since a good point-n'-click adventure like "Grim Fandango", "Full Throttle" or "Monkey Island".
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
If I had to venture a guess, the memory leak that started cropping up after ~100 turns, depending on hardware configuration.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I think he meant some of the general flaws in the gameplay. You could trade with systems that the Borg had wiped out, I seem to recall, and other things.
BOTF was one of those really annoying games. It wasn't that it deserved to be a late 70s scoring game, it deserved to be in the high 80s. But general bugs, annoyances, flaws, and silly things held it back. A sequel would have been good.
Still, it's easily one of the best 3 Star Trek games of the past 8 years or so.
And games aren't any harder nowadays. If anything, they're easier. You've all been spoiled by quick-saving. Quick-saving! I remember when you had to do the same part of the level over and over again. And there were slippery slidey ice-worlds.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I've been playing Red Alert 2 lately... I really want to get a copy of Yuri's Revenge. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"I remember when you had to do the same part of the level over and over again. And there were slippery slidey ice-worlds."
I wonder if they'll ever make another Commander Keen game...
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: I've been playing Red Alert 2 lately... I really want to get a copy of Yuri's Revenge.
I didn't think RA2 was all that good; quite easy really. Especially the Hawaii level (just send all ships up to the top right of the map and destroy one sentry gun and it's over) and any level with oil wells.
I'm playing Cossacks at the moment. Damn good game.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Red Alert 2 is the best of the "Command&Conquer" games Multiplayer-wise, still. The balance btw countries, the units, presto. We played RA2 at work for a year during lunchbreaks and sometimes we brought beer and played to 20:00 on friday and then went out on the town. Still do sometimes now, only with CS.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Cartman: What, you don't think Freespace 2 is a great game? Why?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
My main problem with BotF was that the overall map SUCKS. There's no scrolling, and what scaling there is is useless. I'd also like to see a bigger playing field, and every species as its own potential empire. The diplomatic engine could have used some improvement. That memory leak got annoying, too.
And "Full Throttle" rocked! As does "Freespace 2". Too bad it's one of those games where the publisher was too dumb to make more than eight copies... anyone got a copy of "Wing Commander: The Kilrathi Saga" or "The Neverhood Chronicles", BTW?
Posted by Valles (Member # 925) on :
Homeworld is (almost) all that is good in modern RTS.
Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries is an FPS sans neurotic-twitchy-adrenaline-brainy-explody-speed. Also sans Oops!-I-died! Which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending, but I think it's a good thing. (well, sans both of the above unless you're enough of a Real Loonie to drive a Flea)
I need to start playing Alpha Centauri again. If I can find the time.
Ah well.
Blessed be. -n
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
@Tahna: on the contrary, I think FS2 is the best spacesim ever to grace the PC (I rate it higher than TIE Fighter, if that tells you anything). Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :
If it doesn't have 'Monkey Island' in the title I'm not interested......
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Hmm, reading through the whole thread.
Warcraft III: Yeah, the multiplayer AI is quite frustrating, but playing online isn't much better. There are a lot of fanatical players, with build orders, elaborate stratgies, etc....fanaticism inherited from Starcraft. The thing is, you don't have to play with them if you don't enjoy it. Personally, I found the single-player missions enjoyable, and well balanced. Even when I play multiplayer its with people from university that I know, and don't take it that seriously. In fact, they haven't gotten around to patching it yet....so from there its a simple step to read the fixes in the older patches, see what they toned down, and abuse it mercilessly . But I digress. Cartmaniac: Does it really cheat? I mean, it just seems that they make sure every dollar they get is spent, they have no waste...every unit is potentially a fighting unit. And of course its going to be fighteningly efficient. Thats what computers are built to be. You can't fight them on their terms. They have efficiency, we have brains. Out-smart them, go to islands because their invasion AI sucks, use jump-gates because they don't understand them well. And if you still don't win. Jubilee has the right idea
Speaking more generally, for the orginal post. Still. there's an important distinction. Difficult != complex Its difficult to out-rail gun a top-tier bot in Quake 3. That doesn't mean its a complex game. Warcraft III is rather the same.
As Da-Bang mentioned. Starfleet Command....now THAT is a complex game
Re: Grim Fandango. Great game, really great atmosphere (a cross between film noir and native central america), great music. The puzzles are a bit arbitrary, but eh, no game is perfect.
Re: Commander Keen Recent info link On that note, I might add that the Star Control 2 remake is out, and is very sweet. Just google search around sourceforge.net and the phrase "The Ur-Quan Masters" or something.
Re: Homeworld. That was revolutionary, a decent plot, persistent fleets, total 3D movement, amazing 3D models. It still competes with newer RTSs in terms of "whoa." And its sequel comes out in a couple of months...right after exams
Re: Mechwarrior 4: Never played it. Was a huge fan of Mechwarrior 2 (noteably, the first 3D accelerated game I played) and its 2 expansions. Mech 3 was downhill though, a bit dumbed down almost.
Re: Freespace 2 Higher than TIE Fighter?!?!? Sacrilege. Burn him!
Sigh, reading through this post. *Sigh* Its really sad how far Lucasarts (TIE Fighter, Grim Fandango, Afterlife, Sam and Max, Jedi Knight etc) has fallen. Even their last semi-decent game (Jedi Knight II) wasn't exactly astounding, while enjoyable........and they didn't make it. (Raven did)
Posted by Valles (Member # 925) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Hmm, reading through the whole thread. As Da-Bang mentioned. Starfleet Command....now THAT is a complex game
*blinkblink* And that's bad, why?
Now, if only SFCII had had decent singleplayer missions...
quote: Re: Homeworld. That was revolutionary, a decent plot, persistent fleets, total 3D movement, amazing 3D models. It still competes with newer RTSs in terms of "whoa." And its sequel comes out in a couple of months...right after exams
I know... *rapturous sigh*
quote: Re: Mechwarrior 4: Never played it. Was a huge fan of Mechwarrior 2 (noteably, the first 3D accelerated game I played) and its 2 expansions. Mech 3 was downhill though, a bit dumbed down almost.
My earlier comments aside, it does play more like a somewhat slow-tempoed FPS - even the Atlas is relatively agile, at least as compared to my experience with MW3.
I've never really played MW2 - I own a copy, but haven't gotten into it due mostly to my lack of a joystick and utter loathing of inverted mouse controls.
Anyway, as compared to 3, 4 has a faster pace, -completely- different weapon balancing and customization systems, and far superior handling of environmental issues.
Mechwarrior 3 was a sim game. Mechwarrior 4 is an action game. If you walk in expecting a sim, you'll be sadly dissapointed. If you're willing to take it on its own terms, it's a far better game than its predecessor.
Blessed be. -n
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
"Re: Freespace 2 Higher than TIE Fighter?!?!? Sacrilege. Burn him!"
YOU DARE SAY THAT??!?!!?
SEND HIM TO THE VOID!!!!!
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
quote: *blinkblink* And that's bad, why? Now, if only SFCII had had decent singleplayer missions...
Actually, SFC2 is my favorite quick (quick vs. say Morrowind) game to play as a break from schoolwork. (i.e. a quick skirmish after programming in Scheme...) What I DID say is that its easily the most complex game I've bought in quite some time. However, I *like* complex. To an extent. Never could play those SSI wargames that Panzer General was supposed to introduce us to.
Hmmmm, your comments on Mechwarrior 4 don't exactly fill me with childish glee. The main reason I didn't like Mechwarrior 3 was because it played like an action game, compared to Mech2's slower, more simulation-like gameplay. Thus Mech4 probably won't be my cup of tea. *sigh*
I really need a good Fallout 2 successor....although I'm probably the only one still waiting Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I haven't got "The Kilrathi Saga", but I have got WC II, III and IV. I dunno if they'd work on Win XP though, since they were all written when computers were made of slate. I did manage to get X-Com: Apocolypse working yesterday though, which was nice.
Klingon Academy keeps crashing on me though. Grr.
And Freespace II is ALMOST as good as TIE Fighter. There's a single percentage point in it, maybe, and considering that TIE Fighter has the built in "It's Star Wars! It's cool!" (back when Star Wars games were actually not shit), that's pretty impressive. Even nowadays, charging as an enemy destroyer and releasing 8 hornet missles off looks cool. Even if it's fairly useless.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Tornadoes, Liam, Tornadoes. Combine that with a Maxim Gun. That freaking thing is like a gatling gun if you ask me.
FS2 is a pretty hard game to get nowadays. It was voted Game of the Year, but had horrible marketing on the part of Interplay (they wanted to market Descent 3 instead, bleah). This game is also begging for a sequel, but I don't think it is going to happen.
Who actually has the game anyways? Not a copy, but the original.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
*raises hand*
FS2 isn't ALMOST as good as TF, it's BETTER. TF may ooze Star Wars, but FS2 has BEAM WEAPONS. And BIGASS capital ships. Suck it, Vader.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
The Kilrathi Saga
I WANT IT!!!!! WHERE CAN I GET IT?????????????
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
quote:Originally posted by MaGiC: If it doesn't have 'Monkey Island' in the title I'm not interested......
Amen. That being said, I'm playing Master Of Orion3 (MOO3) presently. This is a problem because it's finals week. It's REALLY complicated (or perhaps I'm getting stupider), and there's a lot of stough that is frustratingly underexplained in tha manual. But then I played last night for like 13 hours. You gotta love a game that has built in reminders to go outside and talk to your friends. I am a mountain of sloth.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Hmm. I've heard that Freespace is a crappy Descent ripoff. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
spinoff. Big dif. I don't play it though. There's only Neverwinter Nights for me at this time, I like taking one game at a time.
The ability to visit brothels (even playing as a girl) is amazingly wellthought by the creators. Lends to the width of the game. Funny how the manwhore don't object to my henchman being in the room during the night, though. I'll park him outside the door next time, guard duty. Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Tahna,
Did you play on [EGBT] yet? Did you get your mic working?
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Thanks Omega, but I don't want to pay through the nose for the game set. It would cost me at least �60-�70 to get it at the mininum bid - no thanks.
Anyone know any place cheaper that I can get it - like direct from the manufacturer or something?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
No, see, that's what I was complaining about. The ONLY way to get it, short of getting lucky on a classified ad or something, is on a place like eBay, and you just saw the price there. It's that expensive for a reason: high demand, low supply.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
You could, of course, download it somewhere. Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Oh, I have, at least the WC1 & 2 parts. Just beat SO2, with 862 career kills. But I'd still like to be able to buy it in such a manner that the company actually profits from their work.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Hmm. I've heard that Freespace is a crappy Descent ripoff.
You are wrong. Descent has aged far more than Freespace has, for some reason.
The first game was called "Descent: Freespace" over in the US, but because the games actually have nothing to do with each other (beyond a shared programming team), it was called "Confict: Freespace" over here.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I didn't like Mechwarrior 3 all that much because of the poor modeling job done on most of the mechs. I didn't like mechwarrior 4 because Microsoft went and changed all the mechs.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Isn't the craft used in Freespace the same Israeli Pyro-GX?
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Hmm. I've heard that Freespace is a crappy Descent ripoff.
You DARE mock one of the greatest games to grace the PC?
SEND HIM TO THE VOID!!!!!
Snay, no I haven't. Well, I've stopped for the time being. Getting back to Freespace 2. That is a hard game to put down.
Posted by Valles (Member # 925) on :
quote: I didn't like Mechwarrior 3 all that much because of the poor modeling job done on most of the mechs. I didn't like mechwarrior 4 because Microsoft went and changed all the mechs.
Pity the purist, who cares too much to have fun.
Now if you'll excuse me, Solaris calls.
Blessed be. -n (As much as I hate to approve of M$ on principle, almost all of the things they changed were improvements.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Okay, I really have to ask: "Blessed be" what? And is "-n" some kind of command-line switch, or what?
Posted by Valles (Member # 925) on :
quote: Okay, I really have to ask: "Blessed be" what?
It's just a general phrase of well-wishing. Comes up in neopagan circles a lot.
quote: And is "-n" some kind of command-line switch, or what?
Short for Nathan. And easier to type.
Blessed be. -n
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You do know you don't actually have to type your name anyway? We can see it in that little box next to your post. Look at it. It is nice.
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Isn't the craft used in Freespace the same Israeli Pyro-GX?
Er, Freespace uses lots of ships. Unless this is some clever joke about Israel, in which case I am confused and frightened.
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
The Pyro-GX is used in Descent, not Freespace. Yes. Useless trivia == me.
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