Ow. I hope he pleads not guilty so they have to show this video at the trial. Does a tazer do any permanent damage?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
To someone's dignity, yeah.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
It shouldn't do any permanent damage. It just gives the person a mild electrical shock. Not enough to do serious harm.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm surprised he was still able to move after the first one. The few times I've seen it used on such shows as COPS, it's usually being used to drop some elephant of a guy. They flop around and scream for a few seconds and then basically lay there.
Maybe the alcohol content in this gentleman's body was dulling the impact...
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
It's possible his senses were dulled enough that the pain induced was not enough to get compliance. Remember that Rodney King had to be brought down with a lot more than a 50,000 volt tazer before the officers were assured that they wouldn't be endangered after he had been resisting arrest. (I do want to say, though, that the beating was excessive, even granted that some use of their nightsticks was necessary to get control over him after he charged the officers during that stop.)
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
But what does it do? Is it just pain? Pain can be ignored. Involuntary muscle spasms? It seems like it would only affect a small area. Like I'd be curious to get hit with one once. In a controlled situation. You know. Just see what it's like.
Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :
If you've ever been electricuted that is what it does.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
The last half of those tazerings appeared to be tactically unnecessary . . . he was unable to comply and unable to attack. But, the guy was being a twat earlier so I'm hardly upset about it.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Twats deserve torture.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Comment deleted due to insufficient humor content.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Jason needs that plug-in installed.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Now that would be a plug-in to make users switch to Firefox or whatever cool browser the kids are using this week.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Balaam:
quote:But what does it do? Is it just pain? Pain can be ignored. Involuntary muscle spasms? It seems like it would only affect a small area. Like I'd be curious to get hit with one once. In a controlled situation. You know. Just see what it's like.
Sounds like you're bordering on social darwinism there.
The electricity doesn't cause spasms, it makes almost all muscles of the body contract and not just like you're flexing your bicep in the mirror, they pull together 110%, it's extremely painful, like a cramp. If you're hit center mass your abdomen contracts so you can't stand upright, same with the back muscles.
If you're hit as many times as that guy, and for that long, you can bet you'll have sore muscles for a very long time.
But I'll take it any day over mace or pepper spray.
There's a comedy show on here in Sweden where they show the 100 funniest TV-clips in modern time, one of them actually featured an adventurous TV-reporter who tried out a new police taser:
(Were the 100 funniest TV clips of ancient times the less successful follow-up?)
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
I like you, Solly. That's why I'm gonna smurf you last.
Actually, if you look at that page again, the entry before 96 (no.97) is about a 1963 drug experiment by the british SAS (I recommend it btw). For great timespan.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Sands: It's possible his senses were dulled enough that the pain induced was not enough to get compliance. Remember that Rodney King had to be brought down with a lot more than a 50,000 volt tazer before the officers were assured that they wouldn't be endangered after he had been resisting arrest.
That's a bit diffrent though: King was coked/cracked up and (while I agree with you that he should not have been beaten) was coked up on his next four arrests (the ones you dont hear about).
I cant say this officer was out of line in his taserings- any of them. This guy had resisted arrest, gotten physical with the officer and shown that the taser was not working real well on him anyway.
If this had happened in the 80's, the cop would have been justified to bring his knight stick into play -which would've gone over far worse for Mr. Drunk(?) Driver.
Everyone: Liam needs a hug. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I thought the "night stick" was brought into play when he's thrown in the lock up with a large hairy guy called Shirley?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Hurting someone unnecessarily is a-ok because in a time not now they would have got hurt more. Win!
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
I dub you Sir Stick!
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Jason: for some reason I had thought he had not been confirmed as having anything in his system when that arrest happened. Alcohol and cocaine certainly affect the body differently. Though I would think that they could functionally immunize the suspect from a tazer, just by different mechanisms. It's been a long time since that wonderful semester of psychopharmacology in college.
[Finally an active member. About damn time!]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My guess is that the police regard refusal to obey instructions as an assault. So this guy continuing to try and get up earned him another shot at incapacitation.
I have little sympathy for those who resist arrest. Not because I think they always deserve to be arrested or are being treated fairly, but simply because it's stupid. If the cop tells you to lay down and stop moving, for the love of common sense do it. Don't run, don't mouth off, say yes sir and lay down. You can sue him later.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Actually, it bcomes assualt only after he grabs the officer.
Only then is the use of force warranted (or taken in this case).
As to Tasers in general- people have varing reactions to them (with or without drugs/ booze in their system). Some small guys have a resistance while some big guys drop like a stone. It's not predictabe (it's also why police tasers dont have variable settings, I suppose).
This guy may just be one of the thousands of dumbasses that want to provoke a confrontation with any cop that stops them.
That's why the police petitioned to have those cameras installed in the front of their cars- so that there is evidence that they followed procedures in dealing with a arrest/ticket for court.
...of course, it's the slim minority of bad cops that get caught by their own cameras that the press tends to focus on. Ratings and all that.
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Hurting someone unnecessarily is a-ok because in a time not now they would have got hurt more. Win!
I dont think it was nnecessary: the guy did not comply with the officer, the taser did not incapacitate him right away and this was after he got physical with the cop. Police (anywhere) dont take chances they dont have to. Nor should they.
David, if you refer to King, then no, I dont think anything could have been confirmed at the time of his beating/arrest, but any cop knows when someone is strung out. Fuck, I know, and it's not as though I have to deal with drug addicts every day (except the two potheads at work, of course).
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Ah. I stand corrected: only recently did King actually get arrested for PCP. Here's a rundown of his other adventures with the law.
Note how afraid the authorities are to prosecute him after the riots?
Any of us Flarites would be doing hard time.
...but the The Man always has it out for us geeks.
Here's some fun from my area. Makes me wonder is anything is really anyone's fault anymore...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm stupid. And they knew it. So they're responsible for what I do. Brilliant. Of course, the dull cow look in his eyes kind of sums up how much we can expect from him.
Side point: The text reads "a 'habitual drunkard'". Shouldn't it be "an 'habitual drunkard'" since habitual starts with an h? Or does that rule only apply to nouns that start with h? An honor. An hour.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
If you pronounce the "h", write "a". If you don't, write "an". Tres simple.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Pretty sad when its a person who's native tongue isn't english has to point that out.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Sands: Finally an active member.
Wouldn't be more correct to say 'occasionally' active member. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: If you pronounce the "h", write "a". If you don't, write "an". Tres simple.
I have a feeling that it relates to whether the word comes originally from French or some other language. But I lack the motivation to do any research, so we'll just assume that I am right.
And I wouldn't be too harsh on Andrew. I doubt the majority of the population knows when to use it. I've certainly seen "an hotel" enough to know that a large number don't.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Jay: well, if you want to take an originalistic interpretation, I suppose that's a fair criticism.
Liam: I'm also seeing "an historical" more frequently too. I think it's a product of what's more orally euphonous. The convention seems to be changing somewhat. Whether it will last is anyone's guess. I remember a few years ago you started to see "co�perate" in news articles. That never seemed to pan out to other words and no one has bothered with diacritic marks on that or other English words since. And, of course, who can forget the classic Onion headline "�nited St�tes of Am�rica toughens image with umlauts"?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I choose to side with the guy who managed to use euphonous, diacritic and umlaut in the same post. Bravo lad.
But yes... I would say "an historic" and "an habitual". But I would also say "A history". Maybe English is just an overly complicated language?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think, strictly speaking, you're supposed to use "a" any time that the 'h' is pronounced. But, if you say things like "an historical" or "an hypothesis", it's because the accent is on the second, rather than the first, syllable. Thus, "an hisTORical", but "a HIStory". And "an hoTEL". Though, I admit, that one does sound a little funny.
And, regarding the original topic (plus picking apart English grammar)... I'm not surprised the guy kept trying to stand up. The cop kept telling him to "turn around". Now, maybe it's just me, but turning "around" involves being in some sort of upright position. If he wanted the guy to lie face-down, he should have said "turn over". And I'm not even being nit-picky here. When I hear someone say "turn around", the only thought that automatically occurs to me is to turn about an axis perpendicular to the ground. If I were lying on the ground and someone told me to "turn around" (and I were going to stay on the ground), I'd turn so my head was where my feet had been. Not change from face-up to face-down or vice versa. Is that an unusual interpretation?
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Sands: And, of course, who can forget the classic Onion headline "�nited St�tes of Am�rica toughens image with umlauts"?
Of course the hilarious irony of the heavy metal obsession with umlauts is that germans actually percieve umlaut-ed letters to be weaker than their conventional counterparts and so completely failed to 'get' what the American and British bands were doing. The culmination of this phenomenon being an entire audience screaming Moertley Crueh! during a M�tley Cr�e performance in Germany.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Originalistic? Now there's a great word.
And it wasn't meant as a criticism of any sort. Just an observation.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Maybe English is just an overly complicated language?
Perhaps we should use Ebonics instead.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sho 'Nuff.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Jay: not taken as such. Limitations of the written word again. Lack of inflection is a bother.
TSN: I think you're on to something there. Anapestic (and dactylic) meters have better rhythm than iambic and trochaic. (Or should it be "trocha�c"?)
Marauth: very interesting!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"I remember a few years ago you started to see 'co�perate' in news articles."
That's what The New Yorker's styleguide insists on.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Because anyone really follows that.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh, writers published in The New Yorker do, obviously.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
All this for a habitual drunkard. You shameless Cantinflasses you.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm a derailer.
A bit back on topic though... my girlfriend just atold me a story about a friend of hers who got detained at the airport after putting his wife on her flight to Florida. The police had been coming up to him and questioning him the whole time she was getting her ticket and checking her bags. On his way out the door, the police grabbed him and took him to a back room where they held him for four hours. They took all his stuff and grilled him as to where he had been, what he had been buying, etc.
Apparently they had mistaken him for a wanted felon (I guess the mugshot looked remarkably like him) and it took him a while to convince them that he wasn't this person. But there was a state trooper in his drivway when he got back to make sure he really lived there. And they wouldn't let him go anywhere until 8 that night until they had cleared him.
[ April 15, 2005, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nice. My best friend's fiancee is from Switzerland, weighs about 98 lbs and is the sweetest, most harmless vegan you'd ever care to meet.
Her student visa expired while she was home visiting her parents and she tried to return to the US with a (new) toursit visa. This raised a red flag with someone at a computer and the not only prevented her from entering the country, they made her pay for her immeadeate return flight back to Switzerland and placed her on the Terrorist Watch List.
Un-fucking-believable.
We cant find Bin Laden, but a scrawny 3-D computer artist raises red flags with the Homeland Security guys. I know I feel secure. Really.
She's back now (after being away from her boyfriend four months), but I have not gotten the story as to how yet.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Aban: back on topic, my de facto advisor in college had (has) a similar problem. He looks almost exactly like Charles Manson. The beard, the coloring, the age, even the height. He can even do that thing where he makes his eyes turn away from each other so his right eye is looking right and left eye is looking left. The story I was told was that he was driving in Los Angeles many years back when the police pulled him over and detained him until they could confirm with corrections that Manson had indeed not escaped.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: If you pronounce the "h", write "a". If you don't, write "an". Tres simple.
You write what sounds correct "a habitual drunkard" sounds wrong.
"an habitual drunkard" sounds correct. I'd go the latter.
Although, you might be one of those people who think "commonest" is acceptable. n'GAH!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Cartman: [qb] And I wouldn't be too harsh on Andrew. I doubt the majority of the population knows when to use it. I've certainly seen "an hotel" enough to know that a large number don't.
I didn't write it. What are you bringing me into this for? You are an harsehole. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"He looks almost exactly like Charles Manson. The beard, the coloring, the age, even the height."
Perhaps he should consider investing in a razor.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I hope he does not have a swastica tatoed on his forehead: that really should have tipped off the cops that he was not Manson.
...and the whole "forms coherent sentences" thing.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
No, no swastika between the eyebrows. And if you had little contact with eastern philosophies, some of what he says would indeed sound incoherent. Brilliant man, though. (My professor, that is.) I am sorry I only had 2 years span to work with him. I hope some day in the future we might be working together again.
As for "an habitual drunkard", I would say no "an". When I am using the word "habitual", I am typically emphasizing the continual or involuntary or egregious nature of whatever it is I am describing as habitual. So there the "h" is very stressed along with the word. Instead I elongate the "a" (rhyming with "day"). Therefore no "an" is necessary, at so far as I speak.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Might it also have something to do with the noun being modified in the case of adjectives? So that it's "an historic occasion", maybe "an historic assembly" but it's "a historical landmark" and certainly "a historic precedent". Seems like "histor-y" seems to be a special case. Because it's different than other silent H's. It's always "an honorable mention, an honorific title, and an hourly interval". I do pronounce the "h" in "habitual" so "an habitual drunkard" sounds really weird.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Sands: When I am using the word "habitual", I am typically emphasizing the continual or involuntary or egregious nature..."
Or, in other words, the "habitual" nature.
quote:So there the "h" is very stressed along with the word. Instead I elongate the "a" (rhyming with "day"). Therefore no "an" is necessary, at so far as I speak.
"Hay-bitual"? Or rather (since you are also emphasising the "h"), "Huh-ae-bitual"? Surely that would sound mildly retarded before anything else?
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Try not to make a heybit of it.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Yes, we don't need people with filthy little heybitses heah.
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
There are quite a few rules and nuances in language that derive from a long forgotten speech pattern or source language (for example, the pointless guideline that says you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition is derived from the fact that you can't do so in latin). Maybe it's said "an history" because at one time the 'h' in 'history' was silent just as it is in the word 'honor'.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, it is currently, in some accents.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm sticking with the French thing until someone proves it wrong.
Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :
Liam: I mean the "a" standing alone. Not the first syllable of "habitual". Sorry. I should have made that clearer.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Fair enough. I heyte it when people misunderstand me, too.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Though the client sometimes finds it rather therapeutic.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Ahh - THAT'S who Rex Van Der Kamp from Desperate Housewives reminds me of!
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