This is topic The state of Flare in forum Officers' Lounge at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Ladies & gentlemen, I come before you to discuss a grievous error perpetrated on the members of Flare Sci-Fi Forums & by the members of Flare Sci-Fi Forums. Flare is dying. We who comprise it are the cause of its death.

I have been a member here for 6 years & 1 month. In that time, I have seen very little change here. There has been 1 layout redesign, a few bells & whistles added. I have seen the folding of 2 forums--DS9 & Voyager--& the creation & folding of a third, Enterprise. I have taken part in the UP3 project & watched that fall asunder as well. And I have seen the same names & faces for the past 6 years. The same people, the same elite little club. In 6 years, I have been personally responsible for bringing in a total of TWO new members, Snay & Jason. TWO, in SIX YEARS.

This board has become like a big convention of Jews. No joke; Judaism is like a country club. While other religions actively encourage conversions, Judaism actively DIScourages conversion. "You want to be a Jew? Well, we don't want you!" They make your life HELLISH when you convert, & if you still make it, you're scrutinized EXTRA closely. I'm a Jew-by-heritage, but if it was Yom Kippur, I could pull the whole Jon Stewart "Fuck it, it's 2 PM, it's cloudy, I'm having a sammich" & get away with it. If my friend Julia--who converted--did it, she'd have to go before a rabbinical council or something. And that's how Flare is.

We're not the fucking Masons; we're a goddamned sci-fi board!

Flare needs to change. It needs to change with the times or it will die. There needs to be changes in the way the board is managed & changes in the actions & attitudes of the members. I have discussed this with an unnamed moderator & he agrees greatly with me.

In terms of the structure of the site itself & the forums, a severe transformation is needed. For quite sometime, many have been clamoring for new forums. The general opposing argument has been that because there is no discussion on it now, a forum is pointless. But I am of the opinion�as are many--that if a forum exists for something, it will invite discussion. General design is nice, but sometimes it's like genreing all your music as "Music"...or books by hardcover & paperback. My proposed restructuring is as follows:

With this site restructuring, there needs to be better management. We have moderators but they don�t really spur anything, do they? Look through the regulars & get people to moderate who will DO IT. Get people who will be respected & don't just assign willy-nilly. Make the mods people who fit the areas. For example, I would move Krenim to Comedy & put Irishman in DAC.

I understand that things are difficult & that Charles seems to be going the way of Howard Hughes. With that in mind I suggest he appoint an executive manager or council or something & then he can be emeritized to the figurehead post of Dear Leader or some such. He would retain final control, layout design, & the like, but daily & administrative operations could be passed alone to those of us who are here on a regular basis

The User Agreement needs to be rewritten, severely. And it should be more accessible at all times; it took me an hour of searching to finally find the link to it. There should definitely be something like a new user entry guide forum post. This post should help the new member be aware of the environment they are entering. Simply saying "we're more tolerant of older members than newer ones" doesn't wash the change in China. Perhaps there could be short introductions to some of the regular members & their personalities. That way, the new member knows that Lee is snarky, Simon is cerebral, and Siegfried is a jokester & unofficial �Flare historian�. That they know that UM is out there on his own level, that I�m a jackass, that Timo is incredibly egalitarian. Post examples of "correct" & "incorrect" posts, thus preventing the usual schmutz we get from the intrepid types who've wandered in & were the chummy types...& I mean "chummy" in the Jaws sense.

Which leads to the final change: the change of ourselves & our attitudes. We're a pretty tight-knit community and the "n00b hazing" seems to pretty much turn into "We don't want anyone new here, go away." It�s depressing. I don't tell ANYone I know about Flare anymore because there's no point. I know that others would like to bring new blood but are afraid to. I know that I could bring WOMEN into the board. WOMEN! But these people are usually casual sci-fi fans & I know they'd not feel welcome in the casual areas.

There's a quote from Jason 16 months ago in the thread about the last UA change. The quote fits:

quote:
"I think of Flare as a 1920's gentleman's club that's full of the top minds in sci-fi jackassery. That's not to say that we don�t love our female members- though they could be meaner- I'm just drawing an elitist comparison. Or, we are the strange deep-sea fish of the internet- all glowy appendages and long sharp teeth. Older members can take the pressure while some new members are crushed to pulp and carried away by the currents...."
That is the best & most accurate assessment of this board�s membership I have ever seen.

I bet if we asked around...a lot of people feel the same. That they love it, but are afraid to bring in new people. I know we could pluck from Trek BBS (I've never been there). Jason is still on the Starship Modeler boards & I'm not. I have a lot of friends on Livejournal who are sci-fi & anime fans. I would like to make a Livejournal post & invite people to Flare. I would. But I can't. They'd be disgusted. Half the time, I�m disgusted, & that�s saying something. We don't have to stop being snarky. We just need to be more inviting, in design, structure, & nature. It�s difficult to do, I understand that. We're comfortable in our ways and don't want to put the effort into accepting new people. But it�s now gone beyond that. Now we're actively discouraging people from joining.

We don�t need to be looking for people who have hard-ons for technology or small blurry shots of starship in the background. Most people are causal fans. I think we all have people who'd fit in on a casual level. We don't have to have people who live & campout in S&T. I mean, really�when was the last time you saw Liz there? I don't think I've EVER seen her there & she�s one of our favorites here. Of course, that might be because she also has breasts, but I�m willing to give the benefit of the doubt. We should promote but not spam. We can encourage people we know who would fit in well, who are maybe a little snarky themselves to join us. I know I can find more than a few: one girl on my LJ friends list is a massive X-files fan. Another has listed among his 150 LJ interests comic books, cyberpunk, earthships, grokking, Harry Turtledove, Neil Gaiman, Red Dwarf, Robert Heinlein, science fiction, The Fifth Element, The Matrix, & Valentine Michael Smith. That gent is exceedingly intelligent & I think he�d be a bang-up member here.

I love Flare. I do. I don't go to any other board but it. But I feel like a member of the He-Man Woman-Haters Club during the FemLib movement. I feel like the guys who said to close the Patent Office because everything that could conceivably be invented had been. And...that's not shiny. I encourage you to take all of this under consideration & actively try to rejuvenate & revitalize Flare. I really don�t want to see it die, & I don�t think you do either.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I am disappointed with you Shik, you left out the leek.

Your reference to Turtledove, while a good writer, brings to mind the fact that I didn't really enjoy his books.

Now, to be on topic. Yep, we are elitists alright, although we've admitted that a lot in the past.

Doing something different may bring life in here. No offense to those sick people, but that is the longest current topic. As far as Trek goes, it is floundering from us, sad as that is TPTB seem to be at a loss on ideas, execpt that the books are probably being written like mad. The second most posted items are anything insulting Bush.

Dukhat and Snay have both started separate series for Trek, good stuff to me. Who else knew, and those that did, who has read any of their work?

Creating a new universe, starting with the near future and working our way forward to some reasonably far future may be an interesting project. Keeping interest, and having the time, are the biggest problems. We have the entire group of people needed to create a universe from scratch, no reason we couldn't, or shouldn't for that matter. We could build the continuity into it, for everything. No prequel E being more advanced looking just because it can be due to current modern technology.

As far as CC and the Mods go, how do you beat a dead horse? Other than the Trek book section there isn't anthing new, just the same blurry screen caps. I guess we could go frame by frame for every episode, but why? UP3 died, time was a big consideration for me, for the others, I don't know. With TPTB at Paramount not feeding us how do we survive?

Would anyone's interest be sparked by creating something completely new, or as completely new as possible? Does anyone have the time to do so?
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Okay, I got about a third of the way into that and lost interest. However, I need to address this :

"But I am of the opinion�as are many--that if a forum exists for something, it will invite discussion."

You mean, like the Star Wars forum? Or the Competitions forum? Or the "Enterprise" forum?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
HA! I blame Shik for anything offensive I've posted!
Besides, someone pointed out that you'd linked in pics of my models and then I joined up to discuss them. [Wink]

Hmm..while he definitely brings up some good points, a lot of our "attitude" is defensive from all the spamming and the occasional TOTAL nutjob we've had sign up.
While we've not attracted many recent... what might be called "core members", we have brought on may creative, insanely talented people that do return here as a sort of "serious" forum for their designs (Irishman, MattC, etc.) that would likely eshew a place like Subspace Comms, where every six-year old with a crayon can rail away at a design with nothing constructive to say.

We've become the net's best kept secret....maybe too secret though.

Maybe we can bill ourselves as an 18 year old and over environment for unique fans or something...I'd avoid the word "adult" for obvious reasons.


As to recruiting new members, I find that Flare is where I can really be myself without offending mods or the conservative views of other board's members.
I've brought over a few (Griffworks comes to mind) that did not mesh too well with our eclectic group and were even suprised to see me when not on "best behavior" mode.
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Does Flare need to change? Probably. Am I interested in how it changes? Not really. I've gone through many frames of mind during my membership. I've spent too much time here and resented it. Now I just view it as some place to browse to during quiet moments at work, or in between doing other stuff at home.

Any changes should be democratically agreed on by the membership, after all we make the place what it is. If a vote is called, I would probably vote for change, but abstain on what changes should be made. If I don't feel interested in the new direction, I'll simply visit less and less until one day I don't log on at all. And perhaps that's for the best, after all, Moses was barred from entering the Holy Land. . . 8)

I'm off on holiday for two weeks. Be interesting to see what's been agreed on (if anything) when I get back.
 
Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :
 
So YOU'RE the one we can blame for Snay's initial appearance around Flare *shakes head* All of these years, I've wondered who to blame....

OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!

[Wink]

(kidding, I love Snay as much as I love ice cream - and that's a lot! It's my favorite food group!)

As to changes, I pretty much only post in the Officer's Lounge, and SOMETIMES in the Flameboard, so I'm not the best to ask about this mass overhaul you are proposing.... sorry, dude. But good luck with your venture!

~LOA
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
I may not post often, but it's not because I think Flare is dying (not that I think it is). Although I'm an admin at Subspace Comms and post there more than here, I wouldn't want this place to turn into SCN. Yeah we not be the most welcoming to newbies, but it's not like new members are discouraged either. As long as they can get past the several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
quote:
As long as they can get past the several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks. [/QB]
They can be very thick layers though.

It isn't that Flare is losing life, so much as Trek seems to be. Redoing TOS, probably to make ENT more acceptable, just seems lame.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
But it's not "Flare Star Trek Forums," Ritten. It's Flare SCI-FI Forums, & I think we lose that emphasis.

I am not a person who automatically jumps at anything sci-fi. I'm not a fan of The Matrix (great concept, poor execution, bad hero casting, overreliance on VFX). I don't read much modern written sci-fi because they get too caught up in the alien window dressing & often lose touch with the plot & the readers. But there are tons of things that I know would be great fodder for discussion.

I've had some amazing conversations with people such as Sieggy, Topher, & Jonah all outside Flare. About Trek, about sci-fi, about realspace, about things that are even tangentially related. Last night, Topher & I were talking about Masao's new freighter/liner designs & that got us onto whether Pan Am would still be relevant in the 23rd century. Jonah & I are both huge Heinlein fans & have had lengthy discussion via IM about how his ideals & concepts could, would, & perhaps should impact modern society.

I miss coming here with ideas. I miss having reception to those ideas, regardless of pro or con. It sucks that I don't feel comfortable bringing friends here. Another longtime member here has mentioned that "there's a contingent at Flare that's too hung up on being elitist, superior, and bullying newbies. They'll never change. And [the] plan is doomed because they will not change." I'm enough of an elitist asswad in real life; I don't need to be as much of one on "teh intarweb." As far as the "several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks" goes....every board has that. But here, it's more along the lines of "OH! You wish to join US?? How DARE you! You are a mere puny scrap of a person while WE are forum GODS!" FEH.

He's probably right: this is doomed. Stirring up shit at Flare is like trying to make a molasses-&-concrete mousse. But I had to try.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I agree with what the name is, but, the ebb and flow is very much tied to Trek. From Behaviour, when I lurked about, onwards UP was the main, almost, only thing. Such is the way of life.

I don't think any new project is doomed, depending on how you can deal with digging through the layers of sarcastic, and sarcaustic, whit to see the point being made. Sometimes there isn't, but every once in a while something comes through.

"But I had to try."

Your giving up?
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Not giving up. Just stating.
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I don't care whether Flare survives or not. I'll miss it were it to go, but you can't say we haven't had a good innings.

But I'm going to take issue with the notion that the old guard are institutionally "elitist, superior and (prone to) bullying newbies." We're not. I can't speak for others, but I don't feel Flare is superior to other Forums; I suppose the charge of elitism has merit, in that we like it here and we know what kind of person we like here; and as for bullying newbs, well, I never set out to, it just happened - usually because the newbs are twats.

And twats they were. You say you don't want to introduce like-minded people here because you think they'll get a rough reception. Very few of us now remain from the pre-Flare EnterForums, and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lee:
... and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
The gene pool was low so you needed new blood. 8)

When comparing the size of the two forums I visit the most they are roughly the same size, and Flare's age is far greater. I have lurked here longer than the other site has been up and running. To my knowledge they have the same advertising budget, nothing.

I think you make a good point for Shik, on not really caring as you fade to gray on the board, whereas he's making a push to make the place more lively, energetic, active.

Possibly the definition of a flare twat needs to be adjusted. Maybe instead of giving the 'twats' a full welcome we could make constructive remarks? Nah, too much to ask on it.

Take Robert Eggleton for example, while his approach was rough we didn't say, hey, post a bit of it so we know what the hell your talking about. No, we slammed away as usual.

As an addon to Shik's idea, create a slef promoting thread for authors to show us what they've got, post a chapter and let us discuss it.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Hmm, I'd like a music section... but having said that - I love this forum because it DOESN'T have fifty gajillion sub-forums. I HATE that. People read those forums that are busy - not the obscure ones with like 3 posts for really specific topics. That's what posts and threads are for.

Andrew
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
...Sci-fi- music? There's a genre I never thought of...
 
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
Ok, I propose we "Re-boot" the forum.... with new actors to play the leading charac....oh wait....
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
As much as ice cream? High praise indeed!
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lee:
Very few of us now remain from the pre-Flare EnterForums, and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
True, I was a newbie here once, about 7 years ago at which point so was most of everybody else. I only point out the 7 year thing cause it's hard to believe I've been here for that long.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
." As far as the "several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks" goes....every board has that. But here, it's more along the lines of "OH! You wish to join US?? How DARE you! You are a mere puny scrap of a person while WE are forum GODS!" FEH.
Bull.
I see that kind of crap at TrekBBS and Hobbytalk (and so dont venture there), but, spammers aside, we've been very accepting of new members- particularly when they bring sopmething to the forums besides "LOOK AT MY WEBSITE!".

The closest I've seen (in a loong tome)to bashing was that Eggelton guy from this past week, but that was definitely spamming- when a newbie cant even introduce themselves, but just adds a quote from his own sirte and links, it's not likely to get agood reception anywhere.
Imagine: "Hi, I heard you guys like Trek- Did you know that I sell Amway..."

I've not seen us be cold to anyone that joins and posts in a topic in progress or someone that shows off his/her creative talents in a topic in progress.
But we're murder on bozos that post a "look at me" thread at every forum around to drive traffic to their site.
Guys like Irishman (as example) are always welcomed because their work is stimulating and they're here to genuinely get feedback- not just to bask in praise.

Personally, I'd love to see more overseas members- Andrew, Masao, Bernd, Liam- go forth and stand on your local streetcorners yelling at traffic about how cool Flare is.
Maybe hold up a cardboard sign with the address on it....


On a serious note, maybe someone here can make up an Official Invitation to Flare that can be downloaded and then sent, by us, to people we'd like to recruit?
A nice LCARS display would be cool..
Yeah, an invitation is an elitest thing to do, but why not make candidates feel special?

Hmmmm...we DO need a bit more political diversity to shake up the Flameboard- the unending outrages of the Bush Administration are just not making the waves they used to.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
[QUOTE].
Personally, I'd love to see more overseas members- Andrew, Masao, Bernd, Liam- go forth and stand on your local streetcorners yelling at traffic about how cool Flare is.
Maybe hold up a cardboard sign with the address on it....
Hmmm, I wonder where Darius and Dax have gone??
 
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
 
Wow, I've heard my name mentioned in a positive light more in this thread than at any other time on Flare. I even got kudos from people that I didn't know that that highly of me.

Thanks a bunch.

So, we're talking about changes? What's working and what's not working about Flare? What should stay and what should go? I still consider myself a newbie here, so I am a bit hesitant to offer my opinions...

..okay, hesitancy over. [Smile] )

Well, when I first signed up at Flare, I did it despite the name ("Flare" sounded, and still sounds, a might gayish). I did it because great 2D artists like Masao, Bernd, Reverend, and Harry posted their artwork here, and I thought it would be a great learning experience for me.

I found the wealth of information from past threads, debates, stories, and speculation, great fun, and spent the better part of a year absorbing all that old stuff.

After a while though, the frequency of posts began to slow, to the point now where I will go days between checking for new posts here. And I belong to many other scifi/Trek themed BBSs - Trek BBS, Scifi-meshes, Federationreference (as of last week), Jose Ralat's LCARS site, and HobbyTalk.

Flare is losing its dyamism. Very rarely does something happen here that draws my attention, as opposed to TBBS, where there's ALWAYS someone posting something of interest. Plus, TBBS has the added advantage of members like Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach. I'm not sure how many of the members know this, but for those of us who frequent the Art forum and Trek tech forum know it. And even when I was a newbie I never felt unwelcome at TBBS, for the record.

I also rarely go to hobbytalk. In fact, I only went there when I heard that Robert Bonchune was posting art and mesh orthos from "Enterprise" there. Model building just isn't my thang.

The good news is that Flare is open to change. It's done it before, adding forae, dropping forae, etc.

So I guess the questions become what is good change and what is bad change?

Here's a list that will probably develop as I think about it more. Most of my replies will be limited to Trek because that is what I primarily delve into here.

1. Make Flare a destination for fans. Make it a resource. How? Post episode guides (read synopses) of Trek shows akin to those at federationreference.com. Give exhaustive information regarding stardates, technical facts and historical information for each episode. Have those members who have access to episodes invest that into the site. It will show. It will draw people.

2. Build an art gallery (with member permission) with sub-boards for 2D and 3D art. It will give this material a sense of permanence, and it will prevent members from having to clumsily search (as I did) through threads looking for that one shot of the Binford Space Station to complete their collection. Showcase the creations of your members and show you're proud of them. Artists love that recognition, Give it to them and they will come.

3. Reduce the number of posts members have to make before they can use Flare Upload. TBBS only requires 50. 200 is insane. It took me FOREVER to reach it, because I don't make pointless posts. [Smile] Make it more accessible or ditch it altogether. It's not the Holy Grail.

4. I personally don't care where members come from. If you treat members from "overseas" differently, they'll feel like that "black friend" some guy made just to prove he's not racist.

5. Give moderators the ability to delete spam ASAP. Spam shouldn't be a big deal. Delete it and it's threads and move on. It's distracting and pointless. As little energy as possible should go into reacting to it, but it should be done swiftly.

6. When I've referred people to Flare, it's been because there was something cool on the site. Don't extend invitations to people who aren't members, while keeping the site the same. They'll come and wonder "why is this site such a big deal?" If you make the site a big deal, word of mouth will FILL the member rolls.

7. People aren't going to come to Flare because of the flameboard. Period. Changing the flameboard will not even be a SMALL part of what makes Flare turn around. I do not come here for political outrage. That sort ofthing turns me off on a sci-fi forum. I know I'm not alone.

8. Make the forum titles and purposes more specific and focused. Example:

If your main focus is Star Trek, let that be the first main category of forae, and under it:

General Trek
The Original Series
TNG
DS9
VOY
ENT
Movies
Starships and Technology
Artwork and Creativity

Then have your other sci-fi TV/movies forae be like:

Star Wars
Stargate
Farscape
Doctor Who
Battlestar Galactica (or whatever shows most make sense)
Other

(But let Flare Upload work in ANY forum, not just artwork or Starships and Technology. Those other folks don't want or need to be left out.)

This forum list is not intended to be exhaustive, it's just from my perspective.

Some thing Flare does right?

1. It loads fast
2. Its recent post feature on the home page is awesome. Other sites could take a cue from that. NEVER drop that.
3. Its interface is simple.
4. It's stable.
5. Its search feature actually works!

Anyway. those are my ideas.
 
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
 
To be blunt, if this "longtime member" doesn't even have the guts to name these people in Flare's supposed newbie-deathsquad or come forward himself with concrete examples of true unjustified bullying towards new members [and by "members" I mean those members who actually contributed something of interest (like the oft-mentioned Irishman) and whose first, second, and third posts weren't 1) promotion of some website slash product slash conspiracy theory slash whatever or 2) written by someone still in kindergarten], then I have to question how serious the problem you're perceiving here really is.

Furthermore, the reason Flare attracts very few new peeps is because it is small, and the reason it's small is because it isn't well-known due to having sat far outside the usual online sci-fi circles for seven years, not because it has a preceeding omnipresent reputation of being elitist. You want to discuss Heinlein? Then start a damn thread about him instead of going the lone IM route with one or two of your contacts. You might not get much feedback from the regulars, but at least it adds activity to the board you say you care about which could also just be enough to lure any new lurkers out of their shell and begin posting.

As for the fact that you feel you can't introduce your friends to this place because of some indiscriminate filter you think exists to purposely generate an air of collective hostility and drive them away... how about you let them decide for themselves whether the atmosphere is breathable or toxic? I get the impression you want to protect your own ass from any possible resentment for associating yourself with a bunch of "forum GODS" (your words, not mine) more than you want to save them from a potential bad experience, when in reality (assuming they're not spamming retards and have a decent command of English) I don't see why they wouldn't be welcomed exactly the same way you and I were, by people without a god- or any other form of superiority-complex (well, except Tim). You say there's no point, I say you're overreacting to a problem that in large part has nothing to do with your grievances AT ALL. The elite selection thing maybe needs to be reigned in here and there, but it's not the cause of Flare's stagnation and you know it.
 
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
 
Ok, time for my two pence...

I've been a member for quite a while now (and had no problems when a newbie btw) and I've gone from being a fairly regular poster to an occasional one. In part that's been due to life stuff, going off to uni and so on, but in part it is due to the relatively low frequency of posts and topics here. The most active forum on these boards has always been Starships and Technology, but with the identification of most of the Wolf 359 ships and the end of Enterprise, there's pretty much no new material there. Not to mention in the other Trek forums.

I'm not convinced that changing the structure is so much the problem (although Irishman's ideas for DAC sound good) as people just not posting much new or engaging in threads. Particularly in the General Sci-fi forum, there's plenty of new and older material to be discussed but threads just seem to die after a few posts. Not really sure how to reinvigourate things though.

And while the flameboard isn't the main reason for anyone coming here, it's always been somewhere with interesting (and usually relatively intelligent) debate. Perhaps something other than Bush's cock up of the week is needed.
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Ironically, while I have been the first to point out the somewhat less-than-hospitable treatment of new posters in the past, I must argue along a somewhat different track in this context. I too was once a persecuted newbie, but in retrospect this "persecution" was not entirely undeserved. Some of the stuff I posted was quite inane. However, I stuck around anyway and gradually found my niche, and today I feel as at home here as any place on the 'net. The point being that those who genuinely want to be here will choose to grow thick skins and wise up and do so--we don't need to change to make ourselves more attractive to anybody.

I have no desire to see Flare become the TrekBBS. Don't get me wrong; I like the TrekBBS just fine. Going there is like taking a trip into a big city to see the sights and get a taste of the crowded atmosphere. It can be very rewarding, but it can just as easily become overwhelming and disorienting. It's crazy there. Compare that to the relaxed atmosphere and local color of Flare's small but close community. I enjoy myself much more here. It's comfortable and familiar, and we all know each other pretty well (as forum posters, that is).

Yeah, its pretty quiet here these days, but on most days that's not troublesome to me. Actually, it allows me to maintain a presence and involvement here without compromising my "real" (off-the-Internet) life. I could never do that if this place were a jungle of fora with a flurry of posts being made every hour.

Besides, it's been my experience that, in instances of heavy posting traffic/volume, a great many posts are simply fluff. (Witness all the "shipper" and "slash" threads on the TrekBBS.) Also, while it is indeed elitist and perhaps arrogant, there's definitely some substance to the idea that with increasing group size comes steadily decreasing collective intelligence. Everything comes down to the lowest common denominator.

Furthermore, I have noticed that, as far as Trek is concerned, the splitting up of dicussion into fora dedicated to specific series only serves to fragment and polarize the community into factions as the fans of one series begin to concentrate and bash those of the other series. (Again, look at the TrekBBS.) Better to take a global view.

If I want to go to the TrekBBS, I'll go to the TrekBBS. Let Flare be Flare.

-MMoM [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Cartman:
To be blunt, if this "longtime member" doesn't even have the guts to name these people in Flare's supposed newbie-deathsquad or come forward himself with concrete examples of true unjustified bullying towards new members
Well, while we are bring this up again, I bet several of us can look in the mirror and say, 'Tis me. I will use Robert's post again as an example, I didn't suggest to him to make a different post giving us a partial chapter to review, I just said the post was crap. I've emailed him since and corrected myself, and made a few suggestions to him on dealing with forums. As a scifi writer you would think that we could have welcomed him differently, we may well have appreciate his views on things. Alas, we stomped down on him for spamming without correcting him. We are far too quick to judge without looking in to the person or work.

Did you know that he had gotten bad info on how to promote his book, that has a portion going to charity, from some other new authors?
No, I didn't either till I checked in to it.

So, you want the guilty parties, look at that thread. If my almost 6 years isn't a longtime member then I am wrong, if it is then I am as guilty as everyone else in that thread for not making a corrective action, instead dismissing it as crap.

Of course, we also shock people like Irishman there, which doesn't make up for our shoot first attitude, but may help.
 
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
As a member of Flare for only 1 year I can say I have enjoyed being part of this forum and have never felt like I couldn't join and participate. In fact the elitist attitude is something of a good thing since I talk to people who know what they are talking about. As far as I know, Flare doesn't discriminate against race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender and while we may joke about that stuff, I don't see any reason why any person can't join Flare unless its their personal choice not too. Plus Flare gives us freedoms like cursing where any other forum could ban us for talkin' dirty. So Shik, while I admire your concern I think you are fretting over nothing.
 
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
 
I see no problem with Flare. Flare rules just the way it is. I've been here for quite a while, and I've seen some things. Yes new people are usually welcomed with razzing and ridicule, but sometimes it's moronic when someone joins this forum just to advertise his personal site. Or his first thread is about something entirely stupid.

We have our opinions, and our beliefs. And we discuss them. And if it's with the same people for six years what's the big deal?

Also I'd just like to point out that I totally agree with the previus 5 posters. I'm just too lazy to make a big spiel like everyone else...
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
"Well, when I first signed up at Flare, I did it despite the name ('Flare' sounded, and still sounds, a might gayish)."

Are you posting from the set of a Farrelly brothers movie?
 
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
 
Sol System,

no, not at all. [Smile]

I'm just telling you the first impression it gave both me and my wife.

Where does the name come from anyway??
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Originalish name was Solarflare, it was shortened.

What was it call when The Behaviour Group had it? Just UP? I am too old to remember that far back, say, where my walker at?
 
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
People come and go. Dynamism ebbs and flows.

Some dynamic people no longer post here.

Rearranging the number and titles of forums isn�t going to change that.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I think it is the coming part that is the problem, with some, I'll use Lee as an example, fading away, and very little new blood coming in, well, you get the idea.

At times a face lift does change attitudes, and can influence thought patterns.

Mars does bring up a good point on us being an open community in almost all respects, although politaics and certain a starship's length can be hotly debated.

Opening new sections and categories can not hurt, creating new items to talk about.

But, we have not heard from the bearded one, so, CC, what are your thoughts, opinions, angry outbursts, etc...?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
You know...Irishman has a fantastic idea:
A Gallery.

If we had a Gallery with a link to whatever thread the image originated with, we'd not only showcase our creative side, but also the refining process that is pretty unique to Flare and our community.

For example, some casual Google browser might be looking for info on the New Orleans class. He/She sees a cool image of a CGI version of the ship, visits our Gallery and gets a link to the thread where The Red Admiral get much feedback from the group...
If there's one place we never bash, it's when asked for critique on artwork- it's always been a very constructive experience here (even if it's a Lego project or one of my models).

A Gallery would require us to be cool with our art on display (moreso than it already is).

As to attracting new members...so what?
I'll take one new "Mars Needs Women" a year over a dozen of the adverage TrekBBS/ Subspace Comms rabble (not that both are not fine sites in their own ways- just not Flare).
Quality over quanity.

Waaay back on page one of this thread, Shik quotes me comparing Flare to a 1920's gentleman's club (think original Hellfire Club) and I think that's a big part of Flare's charm (for me).
Here I can socialize with a wide array of somewhat like-minded people, from a wide variaty of nationalaties, gender preferences, political views and personal tastes and I can call them all fuckos without someone looking down their self-righteous nose at me.
I'm a fucko myself, after all, so it's all good.

Flare's relative secrecy is sort of a good thing you know? Like finding a great new bar, but while you want to to tell everyone about it, you secretly hope it never becomes the "popular hangout", because a crowd would kill the atmosphere.

Besides, the need for a "thick skin" is a kind of litmus test for new members- I recall one of my first threads someone pointed out various mis-spelled words and typos in an unkind manner, but I shrugged it off and said it would take more than that to run me off.
Being able to take a bit of criticsm weeds out the nutjobs (Mountainman, anyone?) from a member that will be cherished as part of our strange and fascinating family.

CHERISH ME BITCHES!
I know you all love me- deeep down.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
The original Hellfire Club was an English group of political dissidents back in the 1700s.

The Hellfire Club I've been to in New York had good music and good drinks, but was a little heavier on the S&M, bondage, and fetishism than the Hellfire Club we X-Men readers usually think of...

Now, swerving back on-topic (*GASP!*), a gallery is a wonderful idea, but what about writing? Essays, short stories, new series... Creative spasms like that, y'know?

And a location for in-the-works prjects, specifically to seek input, opinions, and collaboration would also be a good idea. Persoanlly, I'd like permission from the various UP3 contributors to take what's been written and re-write it so it all has a consistent "sound" to it. Promise I won't change anything important without consultation and consensus. I know how to do technical writing -- I've been a fan of the Jane's guides for most of my life. I have two projects already underway. The one I'm currently revisiting I've titled "Jane's Fighting Ships of the Federation Starfleet, A.D. 2380 Edition. I was about to start a thread in DAC or S&T, but this caught my eye.

It's like when the kids go off to college. You've got some space that isn't being used for its original purpose, so you need to do some minor renovating. I want to see the Trek section collapsed into only two fori -- Real-world stuff related to Trek (behind-the scenes tidbits, actor news, episode/movie discussion, etc.) and in-universe stuff (science, timeline, all the fictional stuff).

I'd like to see the "Sci-Fi" section renamed "General Sci-Fi", with fori for Star Wars, Doctor Who, BSG, Stargate, maybe one for literature, and one for vintage sci-fi -- old movies and defunct series.

Then the "Community" section would have the Officers' Lounge, the Gallery(ies), and a less incendiary Flameboard, perhaps renamed "The Soapbox" or "Hyde Park Corner" or some such...

And add a short FAQ that noobs have to read before they can post, or something to that effect. I took the time to lurk for a bit before I signed up and began posting, in order to get a feel for the place and the people inhabiting it. I didn't want to ask questions that had already been answered. I didn't want to post observations that had already been made. But, as we all know, not everyone is that conscientious about a new space they're entering.

And that's my three pounds, eight and sixpence, and three farthings.

--Jonah
 
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
 
I'm not a fan of divvying up the forae. There's another "geek" forum I "frequent" and they're crazy with the subdivisions. It's hard to tell where to post anything, so people wind up posting nothing. Especially considering the low post-volume it's probably better to have fuller catch-all directories than empty specific ones. That said, I do applaud the idea of a gallery.

Flare has made me a better geek. It is a special place to be sure. I think of it as a fairly unique community. Cliquish? certainly, and maybe a tad on the aggressive side for newbies, but not unfair. It took me a while to get the hang of it, but I really do think it's made me a better poster. You mean-old fuckers wouldn't tolerate a stupid question. I tend to do a lot more planning for a post not only here, but just in general. A lot less RTFM. On occasion I've done research. So, while Flare does tend to be a bit elitist, the people on this board are fucking smart and/or talented. It brings the game up, and I see that as a good thing.

Flare is a specialty store. It's anti-Walmart.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Agree whole-heartedly with Balaam's post.

I think I mentioned above about the divvying up of forums - it ruins them.

I like Flare the way it is (otherwise I wouldn't visit here all the time).

I get on the net, I check e-mail and I check Flare Forums.

Basically if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The forum ain't broke.
 
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
 
Guys, it's not just about attracting new blood. (I still see this as essential for a board that wants to continue for the long haul.

It's also about preventing current blood from leaving. Not coming back. Like Jay said "some dynamic people no longer post here". Yes, and we are poorer for it.

Many of the suggestions I made were focused as much on keeping people INTERESTED as on drawing new people here.

Repeat this mantra with me:

"not all newbies are wastes of bandwidth"

We can help return the thrill of knowing that every time I log onto Flare, I'll find something fucking COOL to check out.

Glad you like the Gallery idea. Maybe make the Gallery contents show up on Google?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
yeah...the Google thing already allpies sometimes (I find) during searches for more exotic (mostly Trek-related) subjects.

Mostly, I'm with Andrew on this- nothing's broke.

I visit here mostly for the Flameboard and Officer's Lounge. I used to visit mostly for the Trek discussions, but that's mostly played out (unless it pertains to someone's own design or story idea).
Now, I'm more intrested in the community and what Flarites think of certain stuff- (for example) Jay's endless posts about whatever the day's outrage is really make me think, and so I look for reasons to support my viewpoint and then post.

Some of our debates have gotten incindeary, but always thought out and smart...as noted, it makes you a better poster (to have to defend your viewpoiint with something besides "I heard it somewhere" or "it's in TEH BIBLE").

I would NOT change the Flameboard in any way- if new folks are shocked by it (which I doubt) they can abstain.

Officer's lounge is just that- a place for regulars and longtime friends to lounge. It's not restrictive, but it's homey.

Anything else may be tweaked to suit the whims of the populace, but Flameboard and Officer's Lounge are what make Flare unique.
 
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
 
I like the gallery idea as well. There's some really great stuff there, and it would be a way to bring in some new people. The only thing I don't like about it is that we'll get mostly Trek fans. I like Star Trek sure, but I don't like being surrounded by it. Just about all of the artwork in the creativity section is Star Trek. It'd be nice to see a broader variety of science fiction genre's here.
 
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
 
My impression of Flare, and the reason that I signed up in the first place, is that this is the best place for sci-fi analysis. Case in point, the whole Wolf 359 discussion. Not only did we have some great discussion here and actually getting results with it, but people on other boards were actually referring others here for information.

Since Trek is done (for now), I think we need to dig our claws into something else. Like trying to find out how many Vipers were destroyed in the first two seasons, or something. Of course, it doesn't have to be current, either. The Wolf 359 discussion took place years after the episode.

B.J.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
And we still only have 18 names and about as many distinct vessel designs... out of 40 starships. [Smile]

--Jonah
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
"allpies"

I'm trying, but huh?
 
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
 
quote:
.
Hmmm, I wonder where Darius and Dax have gone??
I know yer talking about the original 'DAX' but i wanted to put my 2 cents in ... I still come around and read.. and post the odd time... But i, too, have been around for 7 years - and i find myself comeback here more and more lately..

But, I haven't seen Darius in a long long time.

As far as a redo of the forum... a redo would be fine.. but as some have already posted here - puting some forums up with Active shows that are on - like SG1, SGA, BSG .. could bring the membership up..

I would hate to see this place go away.. Flare has gathered some of the most intelligent people .. it'd be a shame to loose the connections to these people..
 
Posted by FawnDoo (Member # 1421) on :
 
Being relatively new here, I have to say that I can see some of both sides of the discussion. Flare is not, it has to be said, the most welcoming place for new posters. That's not to say that the people here go out of their way to make new folks feel unwelcome, but I do think this place takes a little more getting used to than most other forums out there. To be sure a thicker skin, a sharper mind and a bit of thought before hitting the post button are required here a lot more than they are on other boards. Not a bad thing.

Speaking purely for myself I don't recall ever being made to feel unwelcome - I just lurked for a while, snagged the first discussion that caught my interest and went on from there. I've never been bullied...there was a very quick exchange at one point with Lee that wasn't particularly warm, but that was very quickly sorted in a commonsense and straightforward way...helped along by a little bonding over Doon McKichan! [Wink] To be honest I think this place is like anywhere else, in real life or on the web - you only get trouble if you go looking for it.

As for the dynamism of the forum, never having been around in what seems to have been Flare's heyday I don't think I can comment too much on that. I have to say though that just because Trek has retired from our screens for the moment doesn't mean there isn't more than enough to talk about. In fact with shows like BSG and DW churning out quality episodes and books, webcasts, fanmade stuff and games all over the place science fiction is more alive now than ever and it strikes me we should have plenty to think about. Attracting new blood for Flare will, by the nature of the place itself, be a long hard job, but I wouldn't like to see it change too much. I'd rather a limited supply of a quality product than an abundance of substandard stuff.

I'll leave the debate for the soul of this place to those who have been here longer and remember it from years gone by. All I will say is this: relative newbie I may be, but I'm here for a reason...and changing this place too much will remove the reasons I started posting in the first place. And speaking of which it's off to general sci-fi for me!

FD

P.S. Gallery is a good idea. Granted I'm about as artistic as a tree stump, but it would be cool.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by FawnDoo:
a bit of thought before hitting the post button
You do realize that you made a funny right there, don't you?

Flare's hey day, that is kind of funny too, but in a saddish way. Aren't we talking about reviving enthusiasm and making a hey day?

So, now, the telling thing, whatis the buzz in the Admins/Mods corner?
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Well, here's the thing. We can all post & think & decide whatever...but in the end run, this is Charles' board, & Charles will do whatever Charles wishes to do. That's not a bad thing, just a fact. If we don't like it, we are free to leave. My statements about forum structure were proposals to the management for smoother operation. My real point was about how to get new blood.

Somone involved in this discussion has put together a proposal for a new board which I have only glanced over as of yet. (& it's not up to me to reveal them; they can do that themselves.) Mostly it seems good, although I am wary of some things. My concerns here have been that anyone who I would introduce to Flare would probably NOT be someone involved in the hardcore aspects of discussion (technology, timelines, etc.) & might be more interested in ideas & concepts. Also, while I know that they would have the thicker skin required to thrive here, I also know that they most likely would not want to have to persevere; it's a case of "Yes, I CAN take it, but why bother?" Dong ma?
 
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
 
You leave my mother out of this.

I get the idea people want there to bring the geek� for Galactica or Doctor Who or SG:1 up to the level that Flare has done so magnificently (??!) for Star Trek. And the fact of the matter is, I'm not sure that's going to happen. For one thing not everyone is watching the new shows. So the discussion isn't going to get to the ridiculous heights (depths? breadths?) right away. And probably not without some new material. I seem to recall some heated initial arguments over the Cylon network exploitation thing on Galactica. There's been some fun stuff for Firefly too (I should dig up my latest map). Perhaps the geek needs to stew a bit, which isn't to say a little newbie spice wouldn't be welcome (whatshisTjize posted that question about Earth: Final Conflict just the other day)
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
What was the question? "Why did it suck after season 1"? [Smile]
 
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
 
I go away for a few years and everbody loses their minds. [Big Grin]

You can't make people want to post or use new forum names in the hope that Flare will once again reach the fever pitch of the late 90's.

Also keep in mind that any change may involve a shite load of work for CC, so unless you're putting your hand up to cut some code....... [Wink]

This place evolved organically, due to a group of people who were dedicated to talking about things (trek, political or other) that they cared about.

Flare will continue to survive should its members have something to say. So instead of worring about Forum names (etc etc) how about talking about the things you are really interested in or passionate about. Then people will come. If they are not interested, they won't. So be it.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Wow. Daryus. There's a name I haven't seen in a while. [Big Grin] I've gone back and revisited some of my early posts (and their associated threads), and I'm a little saddened by all the once-familiar names that I haven't seen in, like, forever. Mim, Snay, Hobbes... You guys are still around. Even grouchy ol' Ultra Magnus, although it seems he went through something of an identity crisis. Speaking of, whatever happened to Identity Crisis? Or Harry? Or Tora Ziyal? Or Psia'Meese? We've gotten a bit of a spate of new members recently, but most of them seem to just be lurking. But with the absence of those familiar names, it feels like a small town that's slowly dying.

I'm tempted to go back and resuscitate some of the old threads (and I'm talking 2001) that I was enjoying before they dried up. Maybe start some threads about wargaming or anime or paintball or being a goofy fan who makes costume and prop replicas. I know Balaam is interested in how I vacu-form armour...

I'll start my Jane's Guide thread as soon as I finish getting myself sorted out here.

And I never get tired of talking about the Battle of Wolf 359.

Now if only we could lure types like Todd Guenther or Greg Jein here... *heh*

--Jonah
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Harry's around; he's been posting regularly in S&T and General Sci-Fi.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Plus, some people are still around, it's just that I've noticed they've changed their names.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Daryus Aden:
Flare will continue to survive should its members have something to say. So instead of worring about Forum names (etc etc) how about talking about the things you are really interested in or passionate about. Then people will come. If they are not interested, they won't. So be it.
Well said.

Also FawnDoo has a real point about how a bewbie should begin posting here to be welcomed- find an intresting thread, put some thought into what is being posted and then make your debut.

That may be some good advice for the sign-up page...

Really, It sounds like while there are things we can all do to amke flare better (Gallery!) only Shik is really concerned.
Crazy Shik...when will you learn.

Plus, Sol wants my Hostess Fruit Pies.
 
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:

Also FawnDoo has a real point about how a bewbie should begin posting here to be welcomed- find an intresting thread, put some thought into what is being posted and then make your debut.

huh huh....huh huh...he said "Bewbie"....huh huh...huh huh
 
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
Jason has an affinity for using letters that are next to the correct letter.
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I do, in fact, enjoy a good Hostess Fruit Pie at least once a week, though I fail to see how that connects us.

I'd like to know what happened to Xentrick.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
The fruit and the eater of fruit.........


Nope, it has no connection to China.
 
Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :
 
Like LOA I've only ever really hung out in the lounge and occasionally the flame board. This place for me is like coming home - you kick your shoes off grab a glass of wine and catch up...well I actually check at work mainly these days but the feeling is the same.... The lowered post rate etc is ineviable with the lull in new episode production - same has happened with every Buffy / Angel site. Chat about other Sci-fi stuff is not going to get to the same level because frankly not everyone is as passionate about other sci-fi shows / books etc as they were about trek. However I post / read / come here because of the people that I know and am fond of. I like the banter (and the sexy men!)
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jay the Obscure:
Jason has an affinity for using letters that are next to the correct letter.
It's all part of a code revealing that Charles is related to Gene Roddenberry.
I'd say more, but it would expose you to the dangers of albino Paramount lawyers....
 
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Time to chip in my 2�...

I'm a recovering forum admin myself -- I was an active admin at the Subspace Comms Network, along with Bernd, for a number of years but I eventually got burned out from all the constant, manic activity and the need to coddle various instances of jackassery. There's a very real reason for such concepts as "signal to noise ratio" and "quality over quantity" -- because the more people you get in a community, the more likely it is to grow even further. Then you're stuck with a lot of yahoos who think their RPG is the best thing since "The Man Trap" first aired.

Whenever I think of these kinds of issues, I generally get a mental image of a spectrum, with the Trek BBS (where I also was a moderator many many years ago) at the low end of the S/N ratio -- that is, a high percentage of crap among the gems, with the SCN somewhere in the middle, and with Flare at the very high end.

And I think there's a very simple explanation for that: tolerance, or the lack thereof. As several people have already stated, Flare isn't really intolerant of newbies in general, we're just very intolerant of crap and spam. As a result, we attract fewer newcomers to the community.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Considering all the various junk and crap out there, I've consistently come to Flare because I rely on it for stimulating (more or less... ha!) discussion. And it requires far less management on the part of the moderators, for sure. Even at the SCN, I was often spending so much time on various brushfires that, even if there wasn't some immediate crisis, I felt like I needed to take a break and avoided any general discussion. I couldn't be both a member and an admin. Here, the mods -- except Charles, of course -- are more like "first among equals" than admins. I like that sense of community.

Sure, we're arrogant at times. But it's sort of a deserved kind of arrogant, you know? We've got a great track record of material going back almost a decade now, and we've made some key contributions to the tapestry of Trek fandom. (Take the Wolf 359 thread, for instance.) So in some sense, we're kinda like an elite intellectual's club. One that may be past its prime, to be sure, but an elite club nonetheless. So I feel fully justified in viewing any newcomers with a little skepticism... not because they're automatically assumed to be "stupid until proven intelligent," but more of a "what do you have to contribute to our community?" kind of attitude.

So, though sometimes the rhetoric could be toned down, I have nothing wrong with the overall treatment of newcomers. I also don't feel that we need to do much (or anything) to try to actively attract any more members. However, I do have some concerns of the makeup of the forum. The simple fact is that a great deal of the material in Trek has been discussed over and over, so there's less of interest these days. I see Flare as being firmly on course for becoming a reproduction of that metaphorical Q Continuum -- that dusty old station on the side of a desert road. Flare could become a haven for a few old timers who still hang around because they've got nothing better to do, occasionally discussing both "The New" and "The Old," but rarely having anything interesting happen. I don't think that Flare is dying, but I do think that it's beginning to fade away.

As for what to do about that... well, it's mainly about attitude, I think. We can keep trying to pitch in and continue discussions and start new ones in various ways. Community projects would be awesome... Shik's idea of writing an original Federation Charter is something that I would absolutely LOVE to help with. (We tried it a while back, but that was a nonstarter because of... well, certain events.) Krenim tossed out his idea of a group-authored Series ? Technical Manual a long while back, which would be a kick-ass idea. Stuff like that to keep us active and fit, so to speak.

I'm definitely against any sort of "extreme makeover," not because it wouldn't stimulate anything, but because it wouldn't solve the issues. But I do believe that some tweaking could be in order. Mainly stuff in the line of fleshing out what we're already interested in -- general sci-fi, Trek starships, artwork, and so forth. Regrouping and reordering the various forums. I like the idea of a gallery. Making Flare Upload more integrated and/or accessible would be cool, too, though I realize the immense amount of code working that would require of Charles! Something to freshen up the place for existing membership, and maybe entice a few people who have some interesting things to contribute to our community.

I guess that about sums it up for the moment.
 
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
 
Shockwave games! That will rejuvenate the forums.

Games, we need a shockwave poker game!
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Or a porn section where we review the latest releases such as The New Devil in Miss Jones from Vivid Studios or websites such as Bait Bus?
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Okay, since someone has too.....

Nude shockwave game!!!1!!
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Shockwave is already nude. Tch.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
No he's not. He's all covered in purple armour. He only has one eye, though...

--Jonah
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
(insert "one eye" penis joke)

As a primer to manking a new Tech manual (be it for Series? or whatever) I'd like to see us re-do the "Starships" section of the DS9TM.

If it turns out nice, I can print up the pages and send them to the participants to put in their manual....
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Is manking like the mantrain Jason?

If so, which is it a primer for?

Shik, I guess that is what I get for not peeking.
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
"(insert 'one eye' penis joke)"

I thought he already did.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
No, no you are a penis joke.. [Wink]

Typos aside, I'd gladlt fire up the igital press at work to make the adendeum to the DS9TM if that's going to be a viable community project.
Heck, a LOT of the work is already done in the form of the ship synopsis from the that once-secret UP3 gang and our own online discusions.

We just need to whittle it down to a paragraph per ship and accurate ship stats/dimensions.

Hmmmm...maybe, we could just go all out and make a Dominion War sourcebook/episode guide- kinda like taking the odd chrat from the Star Charts book as a template and working up a ply-by-play of the war.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Oo! Oo! Can we start arguing about the length of the Defiant and the sizes of the various Birds-of-Prey again? [Big Grin]

--Jonah
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Sigh....
No.
 
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
And here I thought with the penis & poker jokes going Jason would be calling "ALLIN, Baby".


Somehow...I imagine it being called an "igital press" only when Jason is using it. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Not my kinda bet, sorry.
Maybe strip-Trek-Triva with the ladies though...
Gawd- it dont get no geekier than that.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Well, maybe, are you going to use your glue on pointy ears as an item to take off?

That would be geekier.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
You know, I've never bought/worn any of the uniform dress-up stuff...

Could be very hot on the right woman though...
 
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
 
I just wanted to take this opportunity to post in Shik's 5 page "is Flare dying thread".

Thanks,

Mike
 
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
 
Ooh ooh - six pages!
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Sigh....
No.
*sulks*
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Not my kinda bet, sorry.
Maybe strip-Trek-Triva with the ladies though...
Gawd- it dont get no geekier than that.
I dunno... A bunch of my friends badgered me into playing Star Wars Trivial Pursuit with them, despite my warnings and protests. Richard went. Kalen went. I went. I won. And then the rest of them played it out for second place...

--Jonah
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
You know, I've never bought/worn any of the uniform dress-up stuff...
Neither do I. Ick. That crap is so low-quality. I make my own.

quote:
Could be very hot on the right woman though...
Yeah. So far, I'm working on a Trek movie era uniform for Jen -- the skirt variant. [Big Grin]

--Jonah
 
Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :
 
*wore a ST:TNG uniform for Halloween* Homemade and form-fitting - as they should be.

~Liz
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Got a pic of it LOA?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LOA:
*wore a ST:TNG uniform for Halloween* Homemade and form-fitting - as they should be.

~Liz
Tease- besides, you've always got a headache! [Wink]

this entitles you to one free "leg/leper joke" at my expense, to be redeemed at your leisure.

quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus:
So far, I'm working on a Trek movie era uniform for Jen -- the skirt variant. [Big Grin]
Jen in a Trek skirt- cool.
The image of you at a sewing machine- not so much.
 
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
 
I love you flare. Don't die!
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Now if only we can get a teary-eyed Ed Harris to say that...
 
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
 
Goddamn it, you bitch, you never backed down from anything in life... now fight!
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Love that film...minus the technical issues. Ed Harris is one of the Best Actors Evar.
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
'Twas great until the clusterfuck "nonterrestrial beings" bullshit began. Should have been a fucking sea monster...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Well...watch the full 3-hour one.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Yeah- one of the few times the longer "Director's vision" really is better.
The tidal wave scene is worth watching the 3-hour version for all by itself.

Though SOME fucking explanation of what the "sea fairies" were would have been nice.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Why? I like not knowing what they were. Aliens? Earleier inhabitants? We don't know!
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I dont know...n some ways I agree with you, in others...

I prefer to think of them as always having lived down there alongside humanity, but I guess knowing could have made it like the obvious ending to The Village.

Hey, you know...we're the only ones logged-in right now!
Lets go rifile through the other's lockers: I'm betting we find porn in most of them- particularly MaGic and LOA. [Smile]
 
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
You'll probably only find BOB...which in any NON-Disney sci-fi film would stand for Battery Operated Boyfriend.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Man, a Black Hole reference- a movie so bad, Ed Wood would have walked out.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
I love it. But that's because I recognise that it was mis-marketed. It's not sci-fi. It's gothic horror that happens to be set in outer space. Had a wonderful Doctor Faustus theme running through it.

Unlike Event Horizon, which truly sucked, except for the design of the ship.

--Jonah
 
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
 
Lest we forget Joely Richardson, mmm.
 
Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :
 
Why would I want a battery operated boyfriend when I've got the real deal sleeping in the next room????
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
(So does Mr. X watch Nip/Tuck?)
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
If I were watching Nip/Tuck I'd be sleeping too.
 
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
 
(have seen her on there, yes, but I don't watch. should I?)
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus:
I love it. But that's because I recognise that it was mis-marketed. It's not sci-fi. It's gothic horror that happens to be set in outer space. Had a wonderful Doctor Faustus theme running through it.

Unlike Event Horizon, which truly sucked, except for the design of the ship.

--Jonah
Event Horizon was sooo bad- and the ship looks like a plucked chicken when not shown in forced-perspective (which it was in almost every scene).

The Black Hole featues a space EVA sans spacesuits because the actors refused to wear the *silly-looking" hoodies on their costumes- these "professionals" complained that it was just "too hot" to wear them and the director gave in.
Small wonder Disney's plans of cashing in on the Star Wars craze went into the black hole along with that goofy floating greenhouse.
quote:
Originally posted by LOA:
Why would I want a battery operated boyfriend when I've got the real deal sleeping in the next room????
Well, because he's sleeping, obviously.
You two should be going at it like rabbits, but nooo...
Get to sex-ing, young lady! [Wink]
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
(It is, like, imagine the craziest soap opera possible, and throw in a lot of gory surgery scenes. Thematic example: angry sex doll sex. Like, the doll is just sitting there for awhile and you idly think, is he going to have violent sex with it while imagining choking his estranged wife? THEN HE IS. Anyway, it is crazy-go-nuts but well made. Like, it is nicely shot.)
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
You're talking abut The Black Hole or LOA's sex life?

If the former, I need to go rent it, if the latter, I need to film it and start a new website...
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
redacted

"take the baby's cane away / and hide his little braces / left to his devices he still wants that rocky road"
 
Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :
 
*loves Nip/Tuck*
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I tried watching it wneh it first came out, but that was it, about three episodes.
 
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
You're talking abut The Black Hole or LOA's sex life?

If the former, I need to go rent it, if the latter, I need to film it and start a new website...
Yeah, and 8 hours later when LOA asks if you've changed film you get this look of ..."OOPS".
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I'd always have it recorded in my mind...

Besides...."8 hours later"!?!
Eight....er...man, that would be a hospital visit of another shade alltogether. [Wink]
quote:
"Baby, I'm gonna fuck the headache outta you!"
Okay, that's two free shots now.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Dang, the one leg bandit is at it this week.

I guess that gives you a free shot a baldness, not much to work with, kind of like combing my hair.

Eight hours is the foreplay, getting things all pre heated.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Hey, I have to shave my head- you're just a few steps more advanced in the hairstyle dept.

Eight hours of foreplay would lead to some very quick sex once it got going...and possibly a sprainged tounge.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
It all depends on what you do, and how you do it.

Jason, that is hairless style dept.

Also, that little flap of skin on the under side of your tongue can develope quite the sore spot from rubbing against the lower teeth. I've thought of cutting it, but the increased chance of 'swallowing' my tongue and dying doesn't sound like fun.
 
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ritten:
I've thought of cutting it, but the increased chance of 'swallowing' my tongue and dying doesn't sound like fun.
They did that to Napoleon. I'm not really sure why...I don't think it was to please a woman since they did it to him as a child.
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Hey, it never hurts to plan ahead.
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
The Black Hole is campy, creepy, and fun. Don't diss it, space suits or no space suits. After all, it was the 70s.

2000 Leagues Under The Sea (upon which it was based/ripped off) is a sterling gem among 50s sci-fi, though. Great flick, and ol' Walt deserves props for having made sure that it got made and got made right. He staked most of his financial capital on its success at a time when nobody took the idea of live-action Disney seriously, and the gamble certainly paid off.

-MMoM [Big Grin]
 
Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LOA:
Why would I want a battery operated boyfriend when I've got the real deal sleeping in the next room????
I don't know...I have a real life wife in the SAME room and BOB is looking like fun....
 
Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :
 
quote:
Lets go rifile through the other's lockers: I'm betting we find porn in most of them- particularly MaGic and LOA.
...I like porn..(best Homer voice) *Mmmnn Porn*
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
I meant 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, btw.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MaGiC:
quote:
Lets go rifile through the other's lockers: I'm betting we find porn in most of them- particularly MaGic and LOA.
...I like porn..(best Homer voice) *Mmmnn Porn*
See, that's why you're sexy.
that and the whole "likes girls" thing, obviously.
 
Posted by Home Decor and Gardening (Member # 239) on :
 
[Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Well the whole "salsa dancing" thing is sexy too...happy now?
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Well, I can see that lots of productive discussion has gone on. Not.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Typical though isn't it?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I've seen threads jump topic within a few posts- this one did pretty well, by comparison.
 
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lee:
Well, I can see that lots of productive discussion has gone on. Not.
Indeed.
 
Posted by MaGiC (Member # 59) on :
 
I was quite happy with the whole 'MaGiC is sexy' slant....we can continue in that vein for hours...weeks even and I'll be perfectly content....
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Well, we nominated you to be the public front for a multinational empire (in the "german aircraft carrier" thread).
Hows "Emprerss Claire" sound? [Wink]
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
I'll borrow a Chris Claremont term for her -- Majestrix. Has a nice ring to it. [Smile]

--Jonah
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Nice black leather royal robes, black leather cat-o-nine septers, gold tipped, nine inch heels, iron maiden for the throne.

I think Johan hit on something there.
 
Posted by Home Decor and Gardening (Member # 239) on :
 
PULL OUT YOUR COCKS OH BOY FAT LESBOS
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
I'm named after the Jewish rebellious prophet, not some German. [Wink]

--Jonah (no leeks for you!)
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Oops, I didn't notice, and no I am leekless, oh, oh, woes to me. [Smile]

Still, Jonah, you hit on something, regardless of HomeDaG.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
HomeDaG just feels left out- we'll make him a princess and he'll be happy.
 
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
Okay, Princess HomeDaG it is, no problems with me.


Shik, I think we may have to make this the Royal State of Flare.

Although with this thread at nine pages I would say that the point is leaning towards being moot.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Mootness is what happens when entropy wins.

I have a friend near here who'd be up for the job of Evil Overlord. Everyone else can be our regional governors. Like Tarkin.

As for you, Lee... I always thought you were too busy establishing our cybernetic clone ninja strike force to be bothered with administrative details. [Wink]

--Jonah
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Oh, shit - that reminds me, when did I last feed them. . ? *opens door, peeks in, then closes it quickly* Er, I'll get back to you later with a progress report. Much, much later.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
They're eating each other again, aren't they...? *sigh* Lee, you need to be honest with your budget projections. If you need more money to buy ninja kibble, just ask for it!

--Jonah
 


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