If the title of this post is a shock to you, you must not�ve turned on CNN or read a paper or listened to the news since 3pm EST today.
Upon learning that he was dead � and that pills found near the body indicate a possible accidental overdose � I quipped, �I sure hope they finished filming The Dark Knight.� Frankly, I�m having a hard time grieving for the guy. Here�s why:
It�s hard to feel sorry for rich young famous men who bring about their own self-destruction. If Ledger had been killed by a stalker, or run over by a speeding taxi or a drunk driver, or killed in a movie stunt gone wrong, then the circumstances would be different: Heath Ledger would not have brought his death upon himself, and his loved ones. But that�s exactly what he did, regardless of whether or not he abused drugs or alcohol or sleeping pills to combat feelings of isolation or sleeplessness or whatever else one feels that motivates a person to chemical dependancy and abuse.
Certainly Ledger�s death is a tragedy. It�s a tragedy for his family, and especially for his daughter, who will never know her father. But it�s a tragedy that Ledger apparently brought upon himself, if the sleeping pills found near him are any indication. Brad Renfro, who died Tuesday of last week of caused related to suspected drug abuse, brought a similar tragedy upon himself.
Abuse of chemicals involves a possibility of death. It�s hard to imagine that Ledger wasn�t aware of this possibility. Perhaps he didn�t care, or he felt whatever he needed the sleeping pills for was worth the risk. Maybe he felt that his fame or his wealth or his youth made him immortal.
If I�m going to spend my time mourning a person, I choose to mourn Zachariah Hallback, gunned down on the mean streets of Baltimore. What was his crime? What was his mistake? Why didn�t he allow inner-city life to propel him into a life of drug abuse? Poor. Not famous. His life couldn�t be more different than those of Ledger or Renfro, and yet, a week from today, Ledger�s death will still be the focus of articles around the world. Hollback�s will be the focus of no future articles, and even on the off-chance that one is written, it will most likely be published only local to Baltimore.
So Heath Ledger is dead. Sure hope they finished filming The Dark Knight.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Does The Sun still do its daily murder tally as compared to the same date in the prior year? We used to bet on that in jail.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I think so, but it's not something I think to look at unless someone mentions it to me ...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Wasn't it not an overdose but an interaction between prescriptions?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
At this point, they haven't gotten a toxicology report back; no autopsy has been performed so no cause of death has been declared; the detectives' report of the crime scene hasn't been given; and just because he was found with over-the-counter sleeping pills nearby doesn't mean that's how he died. I'd refrain from casting judgment on the man until it's clear if, in fact, his death was of his own making.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
What is your problem, Jeff? I'm sorry, but that's very judgemental. Arbitrarily writing Ledger off as a waste of skin and some sort of "sinner" because sleeping pills where involved, when you admit your knowledge of the case is sketchy at best (which it still is to 99.9999999999999% of the world), and hypothesising about his "probable" delusions of grandeur?
Do you feel the same contempt over Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee and Jimi Hendrix? That they're all a bunch of assholes?
This was the first I heard of Ledger's death and it was sad to have the first news of this come out like "Sure whatever ok listen up he's dead but don't you guys grieve him, I'm sure he doesn't deserve it, at least I think so."
I don't even see how Heath Ledger is important enough to you that you chose to post this dishonoring rant.
I didn't hear you lay into Hunter S. Thompson three years ago, and that guy did more damage with his death than Ledger ever could. No, that guy died cool because he's so rock'nroll and beatnik and JohnnyDeppy and all that. Fucking wow.
Posted by Ventriloquists Got Shot (Member # 239) on :
When you, in whatever small way you are able to, and I don't include steaming pizza pies in this, deliver some kind of brightness, levity, thought or at the basest, entertainment to anyone whatsoever, then perhaps, when you die, I'd mourn you. As it stands, I'd shed more concern that I am running out of clean underwear than the cessation of your blog, or your time.
I sure as shit don't know Ledger personally, but I sure as shit know that, professionally, in the only capacity we're fit to judge, he did what he did well enough for me to care of his passing.
Ledger got to where he got to and that's more than you and I can say.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Indeed.
He was dealing with pneumonia. We won't know the results of the autopsy until next week. Odds are, it was an unfortunate interaction between his antibiotics and sleeping pills. He was in the middle of filming a movie. Dark Knight is in post. His next film was in pre-production. I honestly dont' think it was intentional, but we'll see.
--Jonah
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Nim:
When I heard about his death, the first thought in my mind was "I sure hope they finish filming THe Dark Knight." And then I thought, "Why was this the first thing into my mind?"
So, when I thought about it, I came up with the above. I'll admit the post is judgemental and harsh, but I write a blog. My writing focuses on ME -- what I think, why I think it. That's what this post is: what I think and why I think it about Heath Ledger's death.
I'm not going to mourn him. He's got a whole world clamoring to do that. I feel sorry for his family. And I'm going to mourn Zacariah Hollback, for all the good it'll do.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
The latest (take your pick of sources):
quote:An autopsy on actor Heath Ledger was inconclusive, and more tests are needed, the New York City Medical Examiner's Office said.
A spokeswoman for the office, Ellen Borakove, said Wednesday that it will take about 10 days to complete the investigation.
So we won't know anything for a while.
Another interesting thing I found:
quote:WJW FOX 8 News in Cleveland interviewed Ledger in Nov. 2007 when he was promoting "I'm Not There." In the interview, he told FOX: "Being a dad changes your perspective � I don't want to die young."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
*muttered the same thing as Snay when I heard it on the Today Show this morning*
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
This is why I hate blogs. There's nothing like reading the self-indulgent rants of some jerk who so desperately wants other people to know about his or her life that they feel the need to document every waking moment of it on the internet.
P.S. The above comment was aimed at bloggers in general, not you personally, Jeff. Although if it was, I'm sure you could take it. You certainly seem to have no trouble dishing it out... Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Meh, I'm in fair agreement. I like blogs like Boing Boing which are basically just lists of sites and stuff they find, but I don't like blogs that are long opinion pieces. "Rants" is indeed a better term. I also really really hate those Xanga-type blogs mostly written by angsty teenagers where they chronicle every zit they pop for some imagined audience of enthralled readers.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
At first, i'm inclined to agree with Snay. usually i don't care about deaths in the entertainment industry, unless it was someone i liked or i knew actually did good things with thier time (if Paris Hilton died suddenly, i'd cheer just because she's the perfect example of what's a waste of effort). basically the folks with good morals or at least a lick of common sence.
but sometimes, sometimes i'm less cynical and more kind to such events. but again, it boils down to how important i viewed that person. did he/she do well with thier time? or were they total fuck-tards showing thier pierced asses on People Magazine?
really doesn't matter what we here think, at all. It's his family that will grieve the most. At least he did have a child and hopefully she will be well cared for...
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
I rather like blogs that are opinion pieces, as long as they are intelligent. I also like blogs that are windows into other people's lives, if they are people I know. The nice thing about the Internet is, nobody can force you to read something you don't want to, so it's quite a waste of time to complain about the existence of something you don't like reading.
As for Heath Ledger, when I read the news yesterday, they just said it was drug-related, so I was rather cynical about it. But if it were an accidental mix of the wrong drugs, that would indeed be sadder. I don't really "mourn" actors, but I acknowledge that he was a good one, and I really need to finish watching Brokeback Mountain.
P.S. I'm glad they did finish shooting Dark Knight. Looking forward to it.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I get you on one hand, but on the other, if nobody complained about things they didn't like, well, how would get to know other people? I mean, isn't a lot of who you are expressed via your likes and dislikes?
They still don't know what it was. Autopsy, tox, crime scene investigation, all of that's still pending. They saw the ESU carrying a ladder into the building for some reason, possibly to retrieve a surveillance camera.
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
I was mostly reacting to Dukhat's post, which was like saying you hate all Americans because you can't stand Republicans.
Yeah, people do express a lot of who they are by complaining. I tend to stay away from negative people like that, because in the midst of complaining, the person is generally self-absorbed and trying to get attention. I am not implying that's what's happening here, just explaining what complaining means to me. There's a difference between saying that something is not your cup of tea and getting all self-righteous about it. There's also a difference between venting and complaining - venting is healthy and best done in private.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: *muttered the same thing as Snay when I heard it on the Today Show this morning*
Just a thought, but perhaps this says more about yourself and Snay than it dose about Heath Ledger. I have to admit my first thought was a selfish one. That being "bloody hell, he's only three years older than me."
As far as the Dark Knight goes, I'm huge Batman fan so I'm really looking forward to it, but no film is more important than a life.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I think my first thought was something like "huh, sucks for him." That's my general reaction for deaths of far-away people. Otherwise I'd get way too depressed, way too often. Maybe that's a reaction to the Iraq business, actually, because when I was younger this would have upset me.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I kinda had a bunch all at once... Michelle and their daughter. His parents. Richard Biggs and John Ritter. "Shit, he's right in the middle of filming." Flash on all the movies he's done and how much I love A Knight's Tale. Hoping it wasn't intentional...
I already knew Dark Knight was in post.
And as further reports come in... Evidently the prescription bottles in his room had all pills accounted for, the autopsy was inconclusive, and they're waiting for the tox results.
--Jonah
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I was mostly reacting to Dukhat's post, which was like saying you hate all Americans because you can't stand Republicans.
I fail to see how you can compare your statement above with what I wrote. If I understand your reasoning, you're saying that because I don't like reading blogs, that I somehow view the world in terms of black and white, without any room for gray areas. You couldn't be more wrong about that.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I used to like Dukhat, until he didn't give me his Jeep. !!!!
For the record, if all it takes for someone to be cast away as a "drug abuser" or "suicide" in this country is to be found dead near several bottles of medication, then you may as well pre-sign my death certificate now.
Come on, people... regardless of who Heath Ledger was and what he means or does not mean to you, he's still a human who DIED for some reason. To assume that it was his own selfish fault, or however it was previously worded, just because our media (always 100% accurate, to say the least! ) reported there were medication bottles near him, and then speak so harshly of him for it really upsets me.
If I died of an aneurysm in my sleep tonight, I would be found in the morning lying peacefully in my bed with no fewer than 5 bottles of prescription medications on my nightstand - three of which are scheduled drugs. Why? Because that's where I keep them. When I'm sick, they are nearby. To me, it Just Makes Sense. Would that make my natural death any less natural? Apparently by the conclusions and assumptions drawn early in this thread, it automatically would - and that saddens me.
I don't know how Heath Ledger died. It doesn't directly impact me, either. But the attitude about guilty until proven innocent that was portrayed in this room DOES bother me - as a person who DEPENDS on potent daily medications just to live a normal life, and then has other potent medications for my days of "flare ups," attitudes like the ones expressed here make me fear death - not the dying part, but the possibility that I could be taken out by some fluke of nature and rather than searching for the right answer, assumptions will be drawn that I simply "abused" my way to the grave or just couldn't take it anymore. It makes me sick, but I'm sure it happens. Hell, look at Elvis Presley - most of the world still believes he died of a drug overdose even though it's been public knowledge since shortly after his death that all of the substances in his system at the time of death were prescription and none were in quantities high enough to kill him.
It's much easier to pass judgment though and for some reason the dirty drama of a drug overdose is just a hell of a lot more fun to talk about than anything else that could kill a person.
Have some compassion. Step out of your box. Know that until you know everything, you really don't know anything.
And with that, I'm stepping out of this thread...
(BTW, this was only aimed at certain people. Hopefully they are able to figure out who they are. Doubtful that they care. And I feel that it Zachariah Hollback's death is tragic, as well. Any death is tragic... not a time to cast stones.)
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
Bad Link, Mars. what's it about (those nut cases protestors or Lohan crying?)
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
Admittedly, the first thing I thought was also 'I hope they finished filming for "Dark Knight"'. And, as I'm sure the sensationalist elements of the media intended, I assumed that his death was due to drug abuse. Honestly, though, so many entertainers have had substance abuse problems over the years that it has made cynics of many of us when it comes to celebrities. I'm happy to hear (well, not happy) that it appears to have been an accident.
As for his role in the upcoming Batman movie, from the sound of it Ledger really got into the Joker role (perhaps a little too much), which suggests that he really enjoyed acting and wanted to put on a good performance. It makes sense to me that any good artist would want his talents to be of such a quality that they are missed upon his passing. Since most of us never knew Ledger personally, the only way we can really mourn him is to remember how much we enjoyed his previous performances and to lament that we won't get to enjoy any more of them.
I have a feeling that the premiere of "Dark Knight" will be rather subdued.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
You think with his death, the movie might get far more interest or noriaity, in a simular fashion to whats-his-name Lee died prior to 'The Crow'?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: Bad Link, Mars. what's it about (those nut cases protesters or Lohan crying?)
The link works fine for me. In any case, its about the protesters.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
I must've missed the "Thou shall not play homosexuals" commandment whan I was reading the Bible.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It's in there, right there between "women must be eternally punished for original sin" and "procreation is only a sin if you enjoy it".
Seriously though, some of those signs say things that are totally at odds with what Christianity claims to be about. Jaded as I am, I still find that level of ignorant hypocrisy quite astonishing.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Having a few days to reflect on my post on Heath Ledger�s death, I think I may have been a bit harsh in my judgement (not that anyone cares what little old me thinks).
I do believe that people who abuse narcotics or prescription drugs or engage in other risky behavior while aware of the risks deserve a certain amount of the blame for their own demise when it happens. I also believe that our culture places way more value on the death of a famous individual than it does to the deaths of hundreds of nobodys: 300 people die in Baltimore, and CNN won�t do a story on it, but they�ll run a dozen when Britney Spears finally croaks.
Still, I chose to exploit the death of Heath Ledger to make these points, when I could�ve chosen the tactful option of shutting the fuck up or waiting a bit or not referencing him in my post at all. Shame on me. I feel quite awful with myself, but at least I can comfort myself with the knowledge that there are, in fact, bigger assholes in the world. bigger assholes in the world.
But it�s a very small comfort.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
it's a simple truth, Sir Snay:
it's easier to destroy than to create.
it's easier to rape than plant.
it's easier to be a complete asshat than to be something more.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Pensive:
Good timing, chief.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
Heh, I never have good timing, sir.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
My wife's father passed away just a week and a half ago. Totally unexpected. He was having dinner with his mother and said he was going to go get some fresh air. He got in his car and before he could start it he died of a heart attack. He was found by a neighbor sitting slumped back in the driver's seat. It was a sad death as he had been tormented for some time with family issues.
Now of course in this time where his loved ones should be able to comfort one another and reminisce on fond memories yet again the truth of human nature is revealed. For now the vultures are here. He had been divorced from my mother-in-law for about 5 years and every attempt to work things out were vehemently opposed by those evil carrion creatures known as their mothers (who each hated the other's child). The bulk of their troubles could be traced to the incessant mettling by these two arrogant matriarchs. Now its all about one side screwing the other over and who is getting what.
The man is dead.
Yet, all they can still see is their bitterness towards one another. Instead of comforting one another they are now engaged in a battle to undermine the other and get all they can get.
And my wife is caught in the middle as the legal next of kin. She is trying to keep the peace and have everyone move on and do things amicably. But the years of bitterness, hatred, and pride will not allow these supposedly intelligent people to actually DO the right thing.
To one and all, for the sakes of your loved ones, PLEASE go and have a will made out stipulating your wishes as to your final disposition and the delegation of your remaining estate as you would have done.
You never know when you may be found with a prescription bottle by your bed or slumped over in your car. Others will judge as they are so inclined there is nothing you can do about that. But you CAN do something for those you care about and that is to take the burden off of them in a time of great heartache and loss.
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) reported there were medication bottles near him, and then speak so harshly of him for it really upsets me.