followed by the second worst:
Bah.
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"Okay, so I'm not "SANE" so to speak, but uh... I'm the lovable kind of psycho"
http://solareclipse.net/
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If Galileo had lied to save his life, would America, or the West, or Space have been discovered?
And if Columbus had never set sail, would the Earth still be flat?
Sorry, I opened up a can of Dr. Pepper.
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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker
Shall I make the joke about robotic dinosaurs, since Jubilee brought it up?
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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker
Correct me if I am wrong.
--Baloo
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I'm a Dirtling and PROUD OF IT!
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Ring this little golden bell
And see what changes with it's knell
Or Wonder, till it drives you mad...
What would have happened if you HAD.
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What do you mean I'm not kind. Just not you're kind.
--Dave Mustaine
"Peace Sells"
MEGADETH
I don't see why anyone should be upset about that second site. US isn't the only country with patriots. Unless there's something else on there that I didn't see on the index page.
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"I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!"
--John Adams, "1776"
http://snopes.simplenet.com/spoons/faxlore/clinton.htm
--Baloo
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I'm a Dirtling and PROUD OF IT!
Cargile: Americans themselves kill more of each other than any foreign army could every hope to do. The only place where that kind of argument has ever made sense was in Switzerland, where people recieve the proper training and (I'm generalizing here) have a good deal more common sense than I have seen in many people south of the 49th parallel.
As far as I'm concerned, the NRA might just as well be a terrorist organization, since the effect of what they argue for is pretty much the same (although my intent here is to criticize the organization, not it's members).
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"Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you."
-Commander Riker, USS Enterprise
I support it 100%. I feel that there is too much access to firearms in this world. Too many innocent people are being killed by those who abuse their right to a firearm. This legislation will reduce the possibilities of criminals obtaining any sort of firearm.
So you oppose of this huh? What's wrong with going to a government office and obtaining a piece of paper which will allow you to use a firearm? So you are a law abiding citizen? NOT TO WORRY.
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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation
Just kidding, of course, I have nothing against my Canadian neighbors.
Chimerea, If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have them. We Americans have always the right to bear arms, and that can't be taken away any more. Besides, I like the fact that I can own a gun(even if I don't).
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"Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri
"I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux
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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants
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"I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!"
--John Adams, "1776"
great, that would mean less casualties. See, if you're shop's being robbed, and pull a gun from under the counter, only THEN does the shit start. Someone's going to get killed. If you just stick your hands in the air you have a bigger change to get away alive, and who cares about a little money then? HUH? And if you don't go down with a gun to intercept a burglar but just call the police, ever thought of that? And no more children shooting themselves accidents.
HUH?
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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants
Here's a few statistics that the anti-gun people don't want you to know:
An estimated 1 MILLION crimes are prevented each year in the United States by the display or use of firearms by civilians.
A burglar is at least 75% LESS likely to enter a house where he BELIEVES the owner keeps a gun handy.
And a couple of comments by me: If a reponsible person owns the gun, there can be no "accidents." If you leave your guns where your kids can get at them, you're a fecking moron who shouldn't have either.
"Call the police." Yes, the overworked, thankless-jobbed, can-be-there-in-half-an-hour-MAYBE police. IF the criminal is one of the nice ones, being robbed may be all that happens to you. However, he may be one who realizes that it's best not to leave any witnesses, or he may just be a plain old sociopath. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not take that gamble. If I'm going to die, it's going to be fighting back.
"Proliferation of guns" "Laws & legislation," etc: People, WAKE UP CALL! Criminals don't respect the law, that's why they're CRIMINALS! making guns illegal will only affect those who would obey the laws anyway. (as an aside to the folks who say that only the police should have guns, I should point out that most cops shot and killed in the line of duty are shot with their OWN guns - actually a higher percentage than that of gun-carrying/owning civilians who are killed with their own guns)
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*I only SEEM Normal*
quote:
An estimated 1 MILLION crimes are prevented each year in the United States by the display or use of firearms by civilians.
How on earth did they come up with this? And what do they mean by "prevented", perhaps a guy walks into the store, tries to rob it, and the clerk pulls a gun? I think something like this should be taken with a grain of salt, after all, we don't know how many people were killed in preventing these crimes, nor does it say how many crimes weren't prevented.
quote:
A burglar is at least 75% LESS likely to enter a house where he BELIEVES the owner keeps a gun handy.
Now, how many burglars stop to think whether or not the person inside has a gun? Again, I'm left wondering how one goes about developing this kind of statistic, a survey of the local prison? And let's not forget that a great many guns are stolen from households, sometimes with the owner getting shot with his own gun (a sad irony, in my opinion).
quote:
making guns illegal will only affect those who would obey the laws anyway. (as an aside to the folks who say that only the police should have guns, I should point out that most cops shot and killed in the line of duty are shot with their OWN guns - actually a higher percentage than that of gun-carrying/owning civilians who are killed with their own guns)
The first part is actually not true. If you look at crime statistics in Canada and the US, you will see that the percentage of crimes committed with firearms in Canada is much lower than that of the US. Firearms control controls the supply of firearms, even for criminals. Don't forget that many criminals obtain their weapons by stealing firearms from armed civilians, or through "legitimate" means (ie going to a store and buying one). As for cops being shot with their own weapon, I've never seen any figures on this, but my inclination would be to disagree. Of all the news stories of cops being shot here in Canada, I have only heard of one where he was accidently shot by a cop (and it wasn't even his own weapon).
All I can say is that figures speak for themselves, countries with stricter gun control laws generally have lower firearms crime rates.
A final note on facts and figures: Not all of them are created equally, many often have bias built into them depending on where they come from, and often can be subjective. Often one has to take these with a grain of salt (or simple skepticism if your blood pressure is already high )
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"Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you."
-Commander Riker, USS Enterprise
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"Is there anyone there with a gun?"
- On the Hour
These crime rates...are they just all crimes in general, or crimes committed that involved firearms?
US crime rates don't necessarily have to be because we have a right to bear arms...It can come from other reasons, one of them being our diversity. This is one of the reasons we have so many problems. So many different people with different ideas...
It is so much easier to be ruled by people you associate with. The US makes is so difficult because we're a conglomeration of different peoples, and this causes a lot of friction. So, don't go thinking that crime comes from guns, without examining other possibilities.
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Jeff Raven - Having more fun than any human being should be allowed to have
(and yes, actually the people doing the statistics - the UCB - DID interview criminals, both in jail and reformed)
As for the number of crimes prevented, foiled, etc. by armed citizens, you can refer to the Uniform Crime Board statistics for an unbiased sample, or you can read "The Armed Citizen" and similar columns in admittedly somewhat slanted publications such as "The American Rifleman."
And lastly... Homer Simpson? Guys, we all know Homer is a card-carrying moron... but what's really sad is that anytime anyone who is not a cop or a crook who has a gun is depicted on TV, regardless of previous character development, he or she AUTOMATICALLY becomes a bloodthirsty or incompetent idiot. I'll let the conspiracy theorists among you puzzle out just why...
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*I only SEEM Normal*
The free availability of firearms in the USA is the #1 reason I'd never move there. The idea of a society where everyone can "protect" each other by all packing a piece is ludicrous.
To my mind, the number of weapons in circulation in a society is inversely proportional to its stabiltity and cohesion.
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"Is there anyone there with a gun?"
- On the Hour
As I recall, guns proliferate in Israel, too, and despite the incidence of terrorism (an unrelated problem), actual normal crime isn't too high there, either.
*watches Monty's previous theory as the explosion lifts it clear of the water*
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*I only SEEM Normal*
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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Megatron: "Waspinator, salvage Inferno."
Waspinator: "Inferno blow up, Waspinator must salvage. Waspinator blow up, nobody salvage. Why universe hate Waspinator?"
I thought last time we all came to the agreement that banning guns in the US wouldn't do any good, as it's been saturated with them. On the other hand, countries like the UK should continue to ban them, to stop the number of murders getting anywhere near the percentage of the US.
I did read some statistics to show how many children are shot each year in the US by guns, but I've forgotten it. Still, isn't even one too many?
'And a couple of comments by me: If a reponsible person owns the gun, there can be no "accidents."'
Surely the very definition of accidents means that they cannot always be prevented. I am sure most people think that their gun is secure. Until their child shoots themself with it.
Also, I don't normally get angry, but:
'So go ahead and hiss, snarl and fizz, you look cute doing it through a rifle scope.'
I really can't stand that sort of shit. It's dangerous, idiotic, and really doesn't make people like you.
BTW, owning guns make you less likely to be invaded by another country? What century are you living in? Jesus, you really think everyone in England lies awake at night worried that they are going to be invaded by the French or something, and wishing they had a gun to blow their heads off?
You know, maybe if the US had tried talking to other countries instead of either secluding itself from the world, or inventing a war simply to pump money into the military, some of its citizens wouldn't have this strange idea that 'hey, it's okay, I have the power to kill someone from 50 yards! What a beautiful world'
Come on:
Alcohol. 99% of people use it for recreation. Maybe 1% of people might act violent while under the influence. Minimum age in the US: 21
Firearms. Are designed with one thing in mind: to hurt and kill people. Minimum age in some states: 18
Does this make any sense?
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'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true'
-Stewart Lee
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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Megatron: "Waspinator, salvage Inferno."
Waspinator: "Inferno blow up, Waspinator must salvage. Waspinator blow up, nobody salvage. Why universe hate Waspinator?"
[This message was edited by The Shadow on April 13, 1999.]
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'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true'
-Stewart Lee
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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Megatron: "Waspinator, salvage Inferno."
Waspinator: "Inferno blow up, Waspinator must salvage. Waspinator blow up, nobody salvage. Why universe hate Waspinator?"
Surely you don't want every household to "have an assualt rifle"?!!!
As for statistics....well I think less people in the UK get shot dead than do in the USA....
*argument lands once more, squashing First of Two*
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An unborn scream burst in my stomach,
and spread like cold mercury through my chest.
I covered my face with my hands, but kept looking through my fingers.
"Write that down!", he told the stick.
"Is visibly destroyed, yet unable to turn away".
- Blue Jam
Should every house have an assault rifle? Like I said, it works for the Swiss, but no, not really, it's not really necessary.
However, if every home had at least one responsible adult who knew how to own and store a firearm safely and properly use it; if everyone were trained, even if they chose not to own a firearm, it couldn't hurt.
No, I'm NOT in favor of no restrictions at all. I believe you should:
1) Be at least 18
2) Take and ACE mandatory training (you don't get an "A," you fail.)
3) be able to verify that you're mentally stable.
4) have never been convicted of anything worse than speeding or parking improperly.
If you commit a crime with a gun, there should be a non-negotiable minimum of 5 years added to your sentence - no parole.
If you commit a murder with a gun, you should recieve in kind.
On the other hand, if you shoot a criminal and are found to have been justified, the state should pay all your legal fees and reward you a bounty bonus. Cops too. Call it a reward for saving us all the expense of the crook's jailhouse upkeep.
That would satisfy me... and cut down considerably on "accidents" AND crime.
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*I only SEEM Normal*
Jeff - I disagree with the idea that racial diversity has anything to do with crime. The UK, Aus, Canada etc all all very ethnically diverse regions and the crime rate is much lower. I think it would be much safer to pin it down to big city poverty.
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I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes
My last comment on the subject is a truism:
Most people are stupid.
No way to let me have a gun, and them not, so I feel safer if nobody has one.
Ciao for now.
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An unborn scream burst in my stomach,
and spread like cold mercury through my chest.
I covered my face with my hands, but kept looking through my fingers.
"Write that down!", he told the stick.
"Is visibly destroyed, yet unable to turn away".
- Blue Jam
Ouuu. Did I ever hit some nerves here? Well good, all sides of an issue should be presented, but foremost don't just read the words I write, read the underlying subtle message therein. You may find yourself surprised to find you do agree with the message, even if the words are ironic. Because really now, not all rifle scopes are attached to rifles. Sometimes they are just telescope substitutes. . .
Oh! When the French invade the US, we'll be sure to have Jerry Lewis on the front line.
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IF is the middle word in Life.
--Appocalypse Now
[This message was edited by Cargile on April 17, 1999.]
Making jokes about, erm, thingyphilia (making love to the dead) it a perfectly acceptable topic.
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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot
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IF is the middle word in Life.
--Appocalypse Now
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'My rigid grill structure...'
-Dinobot
Yep! Once you get to know him, that's a pretty good description.
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How do I do it?
I have an advantage.
I remember how to open a dictionary.
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I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer. (McCoy in "Devil in the Dark")
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
[This message was edited by The Excalibur on April 21, 1999.]
[This message was edited by The Excalibur on April 21, 1999.]
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I drink therefore I am.
-Descartes