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Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

I was walking down the street with a mixed (white/black) friend of mine the other day, a girl, and this group of redneck sons-of-bitches drove by (in a confederate flag-laden tuck) and yelled "F*cking nigger!" at her. Needless to say, they got the finger and a few words from myself, but that's not the issue. What disturbs me is the fact that in 19 years I have never seen anyone actually call anyone else a nigger in a derogatory way, at least never in real life. I'm not so naieve as to think it doesn't happen, but I didn't realize it could happen on a populated street in the middle of the day in a large, consmopolitan suburb of the fourth largest city in America, in the year 1999. If that truck would have spontaneously swerved into oncoming traffic, then after being pummelled by several fuel trucks and doused in gasoline spun into the side of a building and exploded in a forty foot column of flame, I would not have minded one bit.

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

It makes me sad that such a thing still goes on nowadays. Living in a small city in New York State, we didn't have much of that because of a small population.

But now, at the University, you wouldn't hear it either, because of the diversity here. If a person perchance does say that, he'd be promptly corrected by the many others blacks listening and watching.

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"Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri
"I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Fourth largest city in America? If you mean Houston, then boy do I have some stories for you Ryan.

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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

Indeed. Here at UT, we have tremendous diversity (one of the reasons I came here), and that sort of thing doesn't happen, at least not on campus or in public. The event in question occurred in Houston, where I was born and raised... and I'd say it's unheard of there if I didn't witness it myself. Didn't we wipe that stuff out in the '60s? Martin Luther King and so on? The only people I truly, truly hate are people who hate other people.

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

What's up with Houston, Siegfried? Maybe I just come from the "tolerant, openminded" part, but with this exception I have never seen any sort of overt, blatant hate in my entire life there. I mean, there's always racist jokes, or locker room brawls, and so on, but never anything like this...

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Wow. I'm pleased to meet you, Ryan. I attend the main campus of the UH, and I've lived most my life in Cypress. And I'd like to think we wiped out racism in the 1960s and all, but the sad truth is that we didn't. And on top that, we live with the threat that the south will rise again. ::sigh::

And, honestly, I don't need to go to the streets of Houston to hear it. In fact, I've never heard racial slurs made in public (although there is the matter of graffiti). But my grandmother, and two uncles still buy into that white supremacy stuff and keeping the races separate. Now they aren't extremely racist, but they do have enough of it to be a problem. Imagine their reactions when they found out my sister's prom date is black. ::sigh again::

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Many would say that racism hasn't really disappeared, it's just gone underground. But even that is a victory.

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

One of my grandfathers is from Louisiana. He's a crawfish farmer (and if anyone here pronounces it "cray-fish," I'll scream... come down to Louisiana and they'll straighten you out!). Anyway, he has farm hands, some of which are black. He is practically living in the plantation days... he always refers to them as "colored," and says that "they nice enough folk, but i sho wouldn eat suppa wit dem." Keep in mind the guy is a leather-skinned 80 year old Cajun. I don't even bother trying to correct him in the matter; he'll be dead soon anyway so I may as well keep up friendly relations.

Sol System: in fact, I think that for the vast, vast majority of the current <30 generation, racism has been eliminated... but those who really hold onto it pass it on, and there will always be a few holdouts.

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

"The battle is not over even when it's won"

Racism lives on, not just in America.
The most recent example in the UK is the case of Stephen Lawrence, the black teenager stabbed to death on the street by a gang of white thugs, who because of a combnination of police incompetance and institutional racism, got off scot-free.

Even so, there is hope. As long as each new generation is prepared to confront it wherever it is found. (How often have you caught your parents or grandparents use language you would never use?)

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"I'm sorry I'm late....
I've been irrigating the desert...
Which isn't easy on your own."
- M&W

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

My parents often use the word 'coloured' which I don't like. ON the other hand, some people get offended by different things. At university, most people don't mind, mainly because it just never comes up as an issue, when everything is so diverse (it IS in London). On the other hand, I've known people to get offended at 'black', 'brown', 'half-cast' and so I generally try and steer clear.
On the other hand, I don't really like over the top political corectness, like Afro-Caribean, but if someone wants to refer to themselves that way, that is their right.
Still, in Romford I do hear some appaling racisim. Usually said in quiet tones between whites though, rather than shouted out loud. Romford is close enough to Londond that its hard to be openly racist without a major fight.

The thing is, often people who don't consider themselves racist will still have subconscius thoughts along those lines. Walking back to the station from my uni late at night, I saw a large group of black youths walking down the street ahead of me. I was worried, probably more so than if they were white.

Racism exists on both sides. You'll know when its conquered when people don't even consider it. When people treat skin colour in the same way as eye colour. A difference, but nothing to talk about.

Apologies for sounding like that well known parish mag, the Daily Mail too.

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'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true'
-Stewart Lee

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

Dealing with racism is like taking out the garbage. If you don't do it every day, it accumulates and begins to stink. Bad.

--Baloo

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WARNING:
This Product Warps Space and Time in Its Vicinity.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

My father's use of a certain term disturbs and confuses me sometimes.
Here's a guy, college and post-grad educated, and fairly intelligent, comapred to average.
But he uses the n-word.
But he doesn't use it quite the way it's normally used.
He applies it to both white and black people, in the context of deriding someone who's got a long rap sheet, is on perpetual assistance, uses food stamps to buy luxury items, who has children but is not a parent to them, etc. (you know, a drain on society), but REGARDLESS of race.

I know the man knows and respects a number of black people, and would never use such words to describe them... but it's disheartening nonetheless. And I often catch myself wondering if I'm affected by that use. Or has he appropriated a racist term, and changed his personal definition of it? And is that a bad thing?
*sigh*

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

The original meaning of the n-word was to describe someone who was lazy and a trouble-maker, First of Two. And race didn't matter with the original meaning, either.

[This message was edited by Siegfried on April 06, 1999.]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Really? Hmm. And here I am, with a B.A. in English, and I didn't know that.
So.. since I know he's using it in the old, "correct" usage, I can be less upset?

I still won't use it. I prefer the more "politically correct" term... "scum."

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the term 'n****r' a corruption of negro, which is spanish for 'black'? I would assume that would be the case, since it was the Spanish conquistadores who did most of the black slave trading in the Americas.

*edits message, just in case*
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"Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri
"I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux

[This message was edited by Jeff Raven on April 07, 1999.]

Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :

Only time I ever came across racism was in outback Australia...we stopped off in a town to get some KFC and some hoons drove past screaming insults at some of my Chinese & Thai classmates.

Losers.....

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I drink therefore I am.

-Descartes

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

*enters the thread finally*
I have never cared about that stuff. These people, to me, were people I grew up with ... and the only difference I could see was that their tans never went away during the winter. *LOL* ..

but it all depends on where and how and when we were raised, doesnt it? ... If I had been raised to think that Negro's were "N-rs" ... I may still call them that today. Especially if I got away with it when I did.

As Baloo has said. .. it's a problem we have to deal with every day....

and The first problem lies in recognizing that it still exists.

It has, perhaps, just gotten a little less blatant.

Well... it exists in other forms, too. For instance, I am openly bi-sexual at my college, and am still called a "dyke" or a "queer" ... or a "Lesbo" .... People think it's okay. I correct them. But that's the way they were raised ... and like I said... the first thing you have to do is realize it still exists and take every measure to stop it. Because if it's tolerated .. tolerance="It's okay to do that". And that's not the message we want to get accross, is it?

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If Galileo had lied to save his life, would America, or the West, or Space have been discovered?
And if Columbus had never set sail, would the Earth still be flat?

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Jeff & others: the term "nigger" is a corruption of the word "niggard," not "negro". I think First has the correct meaning of it.

I'm not really surprised that there are people like that in a big, diverse city, Ryan. I once saw a map of supremacist and hate group locations, and large cities and states with diverse populations have the largest numbers of them. Why? Well, one can't really start a hate group against certain people if one lives in a mostly homogenous state like North Dakota or someplace.

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"I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!"
--John Adams, "1776"

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Political Correctionists say that if the word 'nigger' was removed of its connotations somehow, that it would lose its power to cause division - ie, just a word, not a rallying cry. But I don't think so. It's an ugly word, and one that deserves to fade out of use along with the hatred it represents.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Okay, so.. why is it racist when we (white folks, I mean) use it, but not when they (black folks, I mean) use it? I hear black folks (guys, mostly) calling each other that word all the time, but nobody gets into fistfights about it..

That bit always confused me.

I know a lesbian woman who calls herself a "dyke" but would (and could) kick the a$$ of any man who said it to her face. I know two gay guys who call each other "fag" all the time. I even know a bunch of Italian guys who call themselves "the Wop party."

What gives? Is it only "correct" and innofensive to use a racial, ethnic, or religious slur if you happen to BELONG to that race, ethnicity, or religion?

If so.. I need some new jokes. Is there a derogatory word for a Scotsman besides "a scotsman?"

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*I only SEEM Normal*

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Yes, call them "English".

Now I don't find this offensive, but 90% of Scots would tear out your bronchii if you called them that. It's a funny old world.

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"Is there anyone there with a gun?"
- On the Hour

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

I call myself a dyke in public (even though I'm BI), and probably would kill the man who said it to my face ...so let me see if I can explain it.

If I adopt a name for myself that has a past shadowed in shame and disrepute, like "Dyke" .. and am openly accepting that I am one... I am showing the world that
A: The horrible word they've come up with to call me isn't going to work because I'm calling MYSELF that.
B: I'm openly accepting my "Dyke-ness" whole-heartedly ... therefore any slights anyone speaks are going to be ignored.
C: It's a way to help me accept MYSELF.

Now, the reason I would punch the person who said that to my face (except perhaps another lesbian/bi /gay person who was saying it as a joke), is because we're trying to gain acceptance and tolerance and this won't happen if we keep LETTING them use that word in a derogatory way.
But it depends on the context, too. It depends on if they're using the word as a slur, or just joking around. And believe me, you CAN tell.
Anyways, the point is... by punching the guy who calls me that and is using it to slight me, I am clearly making the point that such behavior will NOT be tolerated.

Hope that was useful

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If Galileo had lied to save his life, would America, or the West, or Space have been discovered?
And if Columbus had never set sail, would the Earth still be flat?

[This message was edited by Jubilee McGann on April 07, 1999.]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Monty, what about if you called them 'Welsh'? Is that better or worse than calling them 'English'?

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'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true'
-Stewart Lee

Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :

Ironically, I use the word "nigga" all the time with my black friends. They call me their "white nigga" and I call them "my niggaz" right back at them... but that's becasue we're friends, and that's just how we're accustomed to talking to one another. if I went up to a random black guy on the street and said "what's up my nigga" I would probably be killed shortly thereafter... =)

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

You should know how often I've been called redhead names. People say they don't mean it, but I think it's as bad as calling a black person a nigger. It's scary that bullying redheads is as commonplace now as bullying jews was before the war. Will there be redhead concentration camps?

Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :

I must admit that racism is my least favourite thing in the world.

My philosophy on life is to treat people as a bag of blood.
Okay - maybe it is a rather sick vision - but that is what we are - and down in a basic way we are all the same.

My wife is half Indian and is one of the nicest people I know. Just because she has a tan all year round and it gets way darker after 20 minutes in the sun (no exageration - something which p*sses me off to this day me being a white lard ass LOL!) does not make her any different.
She is human - end of story.
Anyone who is a racist on the other hand is not human - they are bags of Sh*t - not blood.

Last person that said something untowards about my wife learnt very quickly never to say something like that again.
Anyone who has met me knows I have a vicious streak in me verbally, and I am not that small either. (5' 10" - 14 Stone - 44" chest - 13" Biceps - the name fatmess is a parady)

.........hummm - best stop ranting....

Me dont like racists.

Gone

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---- AAARRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!----

I feel better now.

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

stupid question: how much is a stone?

Posted by Jubilee (Member # 99) on :

about seven pounds, here or thereabouts.. I think....

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If Galileo had lied to save his life, would America, or the West, or Space have been discovered?
And if Columbus had never set sail, would the Earth still be flat?

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

14 pounds actually. Odd, Chris, you and I are of roughly similar build, I'm an inch and a half taller though. . . do you have much problem finding suits that fit with a chest that size? I do - if you don't have a six-inch differenetial between your waist and chest measurements, you're condemned to too-tight jackets or too-loose trousers. I have an eight-inch difference, and (ahem) it should be ten. . . *goes on diet*

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"I am greater than the stars for I know that they are up there and they do not know that I am down here." - William Temple

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

And the level of discourse grows ever more esoteric.

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

Posted by StationMaster (Member # 63) on :

I know a good tailor here in Warrington who can fit me with various sizes.

Suit trousers and jacket come seperately although they are the same make - good deal really

My difference is approximately 10 inches.
It got really annoying before I found this tailor. My poor wife used to laugh hysterically at me with trousers that fit and jacket and waistcoat popping out.........

*shudders at mental image*

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---- AAARRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!----

I feel better now.

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Ahem

. On the subject of name-calling, I think it's a mental thing. It's not limited to race either. I don't mind being called Trekkie by my Trek friends, but if someone else called me that, I'd get upset. I know girls who call one another bitches, but if a man called them bitches, they'd get angry. The mental thing is that it's sort of "okay" to call a bad name if you're part of the group, but it's derogatory and mean-spirited if an outsider does it. It's something that happens, although I don't agree with it. If you don't want to be called those names by outsiders, it's best to not use them at all.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Tailors? Tailors?

Jubilee enters a thread, it goe sexually perverted. Chris and Lee on the other hand turn it into a conversation on suit shopping. Jeez.

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'Saying it in a stacato voice doesn't make it any more true'
-Stewart Lee