But what the FUCK was he thinking? He has an argument with his girlfriend, and this gives him the right to open fire on innocent students?! And who was the idiot that handed him the gun? He wasn't old enough to buy it legally.

When children turn to this sort of violence to make themselves feel better, and believe it to be right, we have to start questioning where he gets these beliefs. YES, the child is mostly to blame, as he was the one pulling the trigger. But there had to be something he had been learning... something around him that advocated it, or told him that it was okay. Children, last I checked, do not think that blowing up eachother is right on thier own. Innocents aren't capable of violence unless they have been taught violence.

We are, then, looking for something to blame. Well, we could blame the media, I suppose, for broadcasting it all the time. And certainly, if the media didn't spend so much time on the shootings that happen, perhaps children wouldn't consider it a way to win fame... but media is not the root of the problem, it only adds to it.
And perhaps we could blame guns ... but as our good Cargile said, guns do not whisper "use me" to people. Guns are only as harmful as the person pulling the trigger.

I heard recently about a gun convention that took place. The people selling the guns didn't even care who they were selling them to. They didn't ask for any ID or papers, as long as the person had the money to buy them, that is all they cared about.

It would seem that people like this are at the root of the problem.

WHEN did we stop caring about this?! Guns aren't toys ... I remember a time when that used to be widely broadcast. When I was growing up, it was part of the three or four REALLY, REALLY bad things a kid could do .... Drugs, Alcohol, Guns (or any weapon for that matter), and a few others, like playing with fire, or Stealing, Etc...
When did parents stop teaching thier children that playing with guns was bad? OR if they didn't... where did children get the idea that they could disregard those lessons in favor of other ones saying Guns were good?
I have noticed, over the last few years, an increase in games that wave the banner of violence. We are all (most of us) aware of the game Quake, and the offshoots of it. Before that was Wolfenstein 3D .... I'm sure there are more. These games are popular with Children and Adults alike .... People think they are "cool" because they get to run around with big guns and shoot people.
Eventually, you forget that these people are bad guys, and that the only reason you're shooting is self defense. Eventually, using a gun is sensationalized, and shooting things becomes fun, and the person shooting becomes a hero.

Now, i'm not directly blaming these video/computer games. I'm not directly blaming anything because I believe that the most blame MUST fall on the person pulling the trigger ... but there are other things involved that add to the blame ... and we have to think about this.

We really, really have to think about this. Havn't enough children died needlessly?

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15 days and counting........
*HUGE EFFING BIGASS GRIN*
"Never underestimate the light side .......... ...... of duct tape."

In other words, they're thinking about not charging him with all the laws he broke simply just by HAVING the gun. If that's the case, why bother having them?

I DO think there should be checks at gun shows, just as there are in the stores.

For a while, my father was a federally licenced private gun dealer, and he checked out every customer thoroughly (of course, virtually all of the people he sold to were people he either worked with or had known since childhood.)

Well, I play shoot-em-up games like DOOM and Heretic and such, but it hasn't affected me besides a few bad dreams when I play too much (And I wrote a song about the monsters in DOOM.)

Personal Responsibility -- That's where it's at.

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

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"You can't catch me where I'm gonna fall. You can't catch me where I'll hide. This world's too cold, this Nova rolls. I'm moving to the sun."
--
They Might Be Giants

 

Jubilee: You YOURSELF have played Quake. And no, not single player Quake, but Multiplayer Quake - where the people you shot at were your own FRIENDS in REALTIME. And now you're telling me that Quake is bad......hmm......Heh.

I've been playing games like this since I had my 286. A very long time ago. Have I went out, found a gun, and went on a rampage? No. Have I had the urge to do this, and quite possibly the means? HELL YES! You all don't know what it's like to be a fat, Star-Trek and Country-Music liking short kid in grade school. Or, maybe you all do.......*LOLOL*

Anyways, I don't think twice about blowing up people in Quake into little chunky kibbles, and they don't think twice about blowing me into little chunky kibbles. I have lost the idea somewhere along the way that I'm actually KILLING. And it's all right anyway, because whoever you kill just comes back to life in another part of the level.....and if you die, you re-appear too. Is this true of real life? No. But I don't see myself going out and blowing people up anytime soon.

There, I've protected Quake. *LMAO*

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listen.to/prophecies/
"Where were you on July 14th?"
 

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'You want the moon on a stick, don't you?'
-Richard Herring

My question is: MOM! DAD! WHERE WAS YOUR BRAIN!? And: Did anyone give this child gun saftey instruction?

When I was growing up I learned quick not to point guns at anyone. The guns mentioned were toys. My father had no guns. He didn't hunt. But he was smart enough to scold me for pointing a toy gun at people. I carried this knowledge with me when I was old enough to fire an uncle's rifle, and later when I owned a BB gun. And if I ever own a gun in the future, the only time I plan to aim it at another person is if they have one aimed at me. Self perservation is the only reason I hold to do so.

Again, and painfully obvious, the parents are at fault in this one big time. People if we don't do something about this soon, it could become inevitable that a Parenting License could be put into law. I'm sure that no one wants Big Government stating who can and can not be a parent.

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Think of it this way, at least we will be in prison together.
Tom to B'Lanna, upon reaching Earth and and being arrested by Tuvok.

 

And I never said it was at the root of the problem. Obviously, there are people, like Cody, that do NOT go out and buy guns just so that they can kill people.
However, I have noticed your complete fascination with death, and bloody corpses.
Coincidence?
I think not.

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15 days and counting........
*HUGE EFFING BIGASS GRIN*
"Never underestimate the light side .......... ...... of duct tape."

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Clones are People Two

"The Force is like duct tape: it has a dark side and a light side, and it holds the universe together"
([[[[[[*]}�������������������������

Jubilee:
Contrary to your obviously needSleep-Inspired post, Quake has nothing to do with my fascination with death and bloody corpses. If you're going to make halfass accusations like that, at least try to make an attempt to gather more information first! Secondly, I was playing games like Quake long before the thought of bloody corpses ever crossed my mind. A student at school asked me to find that Show No Mercy site. So I did. That, Jubilee, is where my fascination began, Not with Quake. Am I being clear enough for you? Perhaps I should write it in perl? Or talk using very very simple words? And BTW, The only reason I continue to obsess over the bloody corpses is the effect it appears to have on the weak-stomached members of society like yourself. *storms out*

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listen.to/prophecies/
"Where were you on July 14th?"
 

Anywayyy...

I've said this before: I grew up with guns. I knew where al the guns in the house were. MOST of them were locked in a steel vault, combination locked, fireproof. I'd have needed heavy equipment just to crack it open. This vault was locked in my father's den, which I was not EVER to enter without permission, under threat of an excruciatingly painful death. THAT'S where you put guns if you're worried about your kids.

The few in MY house that were not locked up, I knew about too, and I knew enough at age 5 never to touch the things, under pain of a similar death should I ever be found out.

My father educated me about what exactly guns could do to bodylike objects (using watermelons and gallon cans and such), and took me along on a few hunting trips, where I saw what REALLY happens when you shoot a warm-blooded animal. *throws up*

I KNEW all the rules of safety, the stuff the people on 20/20 last night obviously never taught to THEIR kids.

A Parenting Licence? Sheesh, with all the totally undisciplined, spoiled, revoltingly screamywhiny, or berserk kids I see nowadays at the library with their totally clueless parental objects, maybe it's time.

***joke follows***

Yes! The new rallying banner! Kid Control! The proliferation of easily accessible children must be stopped! Put your kids somewhere they can't do any damage, or turn them over to the proper authorities! There's not even any Right to bear Munchkins in the Constitution!

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

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14 days and counting........
*HUGE EFFING BIGASS GRIN*
"Never underestimate the light side .......... ...... of duct tape."

I don't like this idea for several reasons. One, government has more control over the family. Two, a billion busybody nosy neighbors are going to be more interested in what you are doing than minding there own business. Illegal, or fraudulant parenting would be hard to enforce and would rely on citizens reporting on each other, much like spouse and child/neglect cases. Three: the very idea that may become neccesary, or may be neccasary now is disturbing. It says, "I'm to lazy, or don't know how to raise my kids, let the government do it for me." If we keep on letting the government do things for us, we will lose the democracy our ancestors fought for. As one of the most influential nation to practice democracy, it would be bad form to send out the message to other nations that it doesn't work. And it's only going to work if We, the People make it work.

I'm for nipping the problem in the bud. As a parent I have got to do my part in fostering responcible citizens.

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Think of it this way, at least we will be in prison together.
Tom to B'Lanna, upon reaching Earth and and being arrested by Tuvok.

 

*Stares wide-eyed at you all* Parenting Licenses!? Damn! I'm glad I live in Canada. The strangeness of the US of A stops at the border. Thank God.

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listen.to/prophecies/
"Where were you on July 14th?"
 

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"Angels and Ministers of Grace, defend us"
-Hamlet, Act I, Scene IV
 

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listen.to/prophecies/
"Where were you on July 14th?"
 

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Think of it this way, at least we will be in prison together.
Tom to B'Lanna, upon reaching Earth and and being arrested by Tuvok.

 

All in all this is probably one of the best aspects of Canada/US relations. Having the US so close to us helps filter out all the people who shouldn't be in Canada anyway.

 

Yes, actually, the solution IS "People Control."

Which comes back to that dreaded phrase, "Personal Responsibility."

Or put another way: I, who have no super powers, or even faith in a supernatural being and/or force guiding my actions, am capable of controlling by baser impulses.

I am, in virtually every way, a "normal" human being. In fact, I'm given to suspect that I have more problematic impulses than a lot of people. But I rule them, they do not rule me. I can, and have, overcome my "dark side."

Therefore, so can everybody else.

I practice the most pure form of "people control," I control myself.

Everyone is capable of that form strict "people control."

It's those who choose not to control themselves who are the problem for the rest of us. So our choices are:

1) Attempt to teach more people "people control." -- the best option, practiced by myself, except some people don't want to learn.

2) Let the government control them -- unpleasant, and demonstrably ineffective, as well as expensive.

3) Get rid of them. -- also unpleasant, even "inhumane," but entirely effective.

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

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Organic life, we are told, has developed gradually from the protozoon to the philosopher, and this development, we are assured, is indubitably an advance. Unfortunately it is the philosopher, not the protozoon, who gives us this assurance.
-Russel
 

In order to effect the "elimination of factors which lead people to commit crimes", you would have to divest all humans of greed, stupidity, arrogance, lust, impatience, laziness, anger, love, etc.

I doubt you will be able to do this in the time it takes before the sun burns out.

Unless you teach them Option 1, and subject those who will not partake of Option 1 to Option 3.

But then, of course, Option 2 will become redundant.

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

You do have to be over 16 to by a knide in this country. Even in a complete cutlery set.

Is this too strict, or just common sense? I can buy silverware whenever I want (which I don't, but that's by the buy).

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'You want the moon on a stick, don't you?'
-Richard Herring

First: If you think those emotions can't be eliminated then I suggest reading some Orwell.

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Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers.
-McLaughlin
 

You don't see people stealing to get something they NEED to survive. You see them stealing something that somebody else has that they WANT. If you NEED something, you can generally find somebody willing to give it to you, or to work with you so you can have it, especially if it will end up profiting them as well.

Injustice? How does life not being fair cause crime? Feh! I know life's not fair. Get used to it. I can see that there have been barriers in some folks's ways, and I'm all for the removal of said barriers, but that's still no cause.

Lack of support: well, there is that. Just a bloated system that doesn't really care. But on the other hand, there are a LOT of people who ABUSE the system that DOES exist, out of greed, which makes it just that much harder on everybody else.

People commit crimes out of stupidity, jealousy, greed, laziness, and anger. Rarely out of actual need. (yeah, I really NEED that stereo system, I really NEED that car, I really NEED that hit...)

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You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!

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Blackadder: I'm King *drops dead*