Now, here's the thing. I'm like, a really nice guy. I don't piss anybody off, nor am I into being malicious. I account all of this to my well-defined sense of morality. And due to this integrity, I am not into putting myself in detrimental situtations. I do my schoolwork, and receive better marks than the majority of the rest of the kids, which classifies me as 'not as cool as someone who gets pissed drunk the night before a test.' But, I'm not totally nerdling-ish.

And, I'm not a bad looking guy. Actually, I'm more atrractive than not. Slightly. But, I also have all of those qualities that women say they want in those damn magazines. But they still go for the captain of the football team, and they guys with the Camaros.

So I'm wondering; do nice guys actually finish last? And will the captain's of the football teams always finish first?

[I hope this made sense. I'm so tired, I can't focus on anything.]

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

Yes, Ultra Magnus (hopefully not your real name or I think we've discovered part of the problem ), women know what's good for them, and unfortunately, they avoid men who exhibit these fine qualities in droves. Instead, they are drawn to jerks like (proverbial) moths to a flame. Don't blame them, they can't help themselves. Fortunately, this tendency usually diminishes and, in some cases, disappears when they reach adulthood. Your best hope is to stay away from the ones who haven't recovered their common sense (no matter how good she might look in a string bikini). Don't think you can "rescue" her from her awful lifestyle either. It won't work and if you're lucky she'll only hate you for your trouble.

You don't want to date someone who thinks all men are jerks, but dates them anyway. Don't think for a moment she believes you're the exception. She might, but she will eventually begin to believe it anyway, even if you are Prince Charming. You wouldn't want her to be the mother your children, she'll just mess their heads up, too. If you don't think you'll have children, remember also that no form of birth control is 100% effective, including "the doctor said I was sterile". Trust me. I know.

Pick a potential mate (or date, for that matter), based on her honesty, joy of life, and what your mother and female friends would describe as "a wonderful personality". After a while, she'll start looking pretty good no matter her appearance. She'll become your standard of beauty anyway, as long as she cares about you, and you her. If she already looks good by "conventional" standards, so much the better. If she looks like she ought to be a model and you can't figure out why she would want to go out with you, do some more research before committing your heart. It's worth the extra work.

I was about to climb higher upon the soapbox when I figured this could turn into a senseless rant. I hereby relinquish the soapbox so others may contribute. Hopefully one of the Forum's distaff members will fill in many of the gaping holes in my logic, as well as adding much that I cannot, being "merely" male .

--Baloo

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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 20, 1999).]
 

Welcome to Hell.

One: Women LIE when they take those tests. Either that, or they forget almost immediately afterwards. I call it the "flexed pecs" syndrome.

Two: It never gets better, except that SOME women wise up, given time. Of course, these ones are rarely the "head cheerleader" type anyway, so if it's that your after, it's better you abandon all hope now.

Three: Keep talking. If your life really IS paralelling mine, I can reccomend some fairly painless forms of self-annihilation. There's no need for anybody ELSE to gave to go through that.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Life after high school is a trecherous neverending hell. The only highlight is that the girls live on their own. But that is quickly counterbalanced by their date named "Clint". As if. I mean, why even invite me in if that's the punchline to every anecdote? You could at least return my calls.

Uh...I mean, of course, life after high school is great. You'll like it.

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"And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave."
--
Will Rigby
 

And damned if the parents are not there to do the laundry any more.

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If you can take advantage of a situation in some way, it's your duty as an American to do it. Why should the race always be to the swift or the jumble to the quick-witted? Should they be allowed to win merely because of the gifts God gave them?
Well, I say cheating is the gift man gives himself!
~C. Montgomery Burns

When it's good, it's better than anything you've experienced.

When it's bad, it's really, REALLY bad.

In between, it's usually better, if only because you get to make your own choices, even if sometimes it's choosing the lesser of 2 (or more) evils.

--Baloo

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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm

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--Then, said Cranly, do you not intend to become a protestant?
--I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm

[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited November 21, 1999).]
 

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life"

-Backstreet Boys

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

I stayed at home when I went to college, but it was already better and my two years from 16-18 just flew by because I enjoyed them so much.

I then moved away from home to come to uni, and I haven't regretted a single day of it. My first two years at uni were the best of my life, and although my working life here in Manchester is not as good as university, I'm still around lots of people my own age (students) and we do go out and have a good time. Only you can decide your next move, but for me personally, life after school has been brilliant. I have one more year at university after this year, and I intend to enjoy every minute of it.

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Do business with us, or we'll ruin you.

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"Think of all the delightful aspects of the reproductive process: menstruation, pregnancy, labor. And the part we're trying to eliminate is sex?" Cecil Adams the guy who does Straight Dope.

 

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Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

Butas for the whole relationship thing... I've noticed that in college people are a lot less picky about looks and money and superficial crap like that. At least at this campus, the nice guys DON'T finish last! Imaging that, huh? *grin* And as for me though, i hate men, so relationsips aren't an issue for me... *grin*... I learned my lesson about college age men in HS! *L*

Anyway, that's my tidbit of info! Hope you enjoyed it!

~LOA

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"...my body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

Men Suck. Except Ben & Jerry....
 

I was at university for 4 years for my first degree and over that time I grew to enjoy it more and more. Baloo speaks wisely, hear his words.

(Admittedly since moving south this autumn my life has been slipping down into a puddle of putrifying goo, but such a thing happening to you is highly unlikely. The universe is too busy abusing me at the moment.)

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"You will be swept away....
You, your men, your ship, your WORLDS!"

Unless of course, you join the military, in which case it will become a well-used part of your verbal inventory. Of course, others may be using the term to address you, as well.

--Baloo

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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm

Go to a small liberal arts college in Wilmore,KY.There you will meet the nicest girls you have ever known. No one there has a real conflict with any body, you can even leave your dorm unlocked! And the girls there wear nice clothes, mostly skirts! , and for some reason most of them have the nicest legs I have ever seen collectively as a group. ( Must be that 'your body is God's temple idea') ?

Life after high school is AWESOME!!!

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With 17 hours of class, guess what I'm doing.

Y'know, I hated the first two years of senior (high) school. I lost all my old friends, and even (shock) got picked on. Then I got some mates. And started to relax, and not wear my trousers arounf my armpits. It worked wonders. Well, not quite wonders, but anyway.

I pretty much enjoyed college, and am enjoying university. The only problem I now have is I ddon't see the point in worrying about the future when you can have fun today. I'm not the sort of person who'll say "Oooh, I've got essays due in next monday, so I'll stay in all week and miss the big party". You're young. Enjoy yourself. Don't work so hard that you can't relax. Don't work so hard that you're always too tired or too busy to go out. Have fun. Party. And if "Wake me up before you go-go" comes in, strut your funky stuff.

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*gasp* "The pictures...they're...coming...alive!"
-Abe Simpson, on the miracle of the moving image

 

Life does improve over college. You will find you will have more free time to do the same amount of work for the first two years. After that the work world looms and you start to get more responsible and pragmatic.

The girls I suspect you will be good for are those who are probably not the most outwardly extraverted women. I found in college that the really nice girls did not go out every weekend and party with others. Unfortunately, meeting these women in high school is nearly impossible because you don't have access to them when they don't live in the same building as you do. If I were you, I would try to look to the non-athletic extracurricular activities where some women congregate. Those locations I've found are the best grounds for women who use their personality and wits, not their bodies, to make their points and function among others.

I know it is small confort to you, but I believe someone as thoughtful and organized as you will eventually catch the eye of someone who finds those qualities attractive (just make sure to look for subtle signs; it took me a month before seeing my first).

Good luck, my friend. I wish you well.

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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.

 

I'm not talking about Mr. Tall-Dark-And-Handsome, either. I really don't have that much interest in looks, because I know (unfortunately I learned the hard way) the value of compatible and complimentary personality. I seem to go for bad boys, and I HATE it...and have ended up hurt, but that's a post for another thread on a much different message board.

Good guys, don't dispair, we're looking for you, you just weren't there when the bad boy or football captain came along and seemed to be the greatest guy on the face of the earth. Had you been there, there would have been no comparison and those guys wouldn't have had a shot in hell. It's all a matter of timing, don't give up...we're still looking for you...

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"You're just about as useful as .JPGs to Helen Keller."

- Weird Al (It's All About The Pentiums)
 

Ultra, this may sound a bit weird, but the best way to get a woman to notice you is to not overly try. I can attest to this. Talk to them, find out what they are like etc, either something will happen or it won't. Either way you have nothing to lose. And remember there's nothing they hate more than a whining lap dog who trails them, makes innane comments and stutters replys.

Anyhoo, that's enough of my sabbattical.

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"Diplomacy is the art of Internationalising an issue to your advantage"

Field Marshal Military Project
http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net

Life SUCKS. Life in High School SUCKS. Life after High School SUCKS. Life SUCKS! If you have any doubts as to what to do, look to my signature!

Okay, mellower, let me say that life after high school is better. My first year of college was pretty fun actually, and I wouldn't have traded this spring for anything in the world.

And yes, nice guys generally do finish last. You'll find that attractive women go for the guys who are popular or "cool" and thus this often includes jocks. I'm reminded of a line from Stay Away, "I'd rather be dead than cool, I don't know why." Kurt puts it well. However, what you should realize is what it took me far too long to realize, that such things make you a better person. Look at my two role models, Kurt Cobain and Eddie Vedder. They took all the crap life threw at them (which for guys is almost always related to females) and turned it into the best music anyone had ever heard. Thus, they became popular, wealthy, powerful, and "cool" as well. Now, this drove Kurt over the edge. Having the people who hated him come to love him was too much. Yet, this is a wonderful way to accomplish things in life. So, hang in there. Take up an instrument (I recommend guitar, although I learned bass first) and become a great songwriter (try to write good songs, not popular songs). You'll eventually (before you hit 30) reach the big time, and you'll have women offering everything from their heart to fellatio.

There ya go, a Marxist always has a blueprint and plan for everything. And if all else fails, just beat up guys named Clint.

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"Look on the bright side is suicide" - Kurt Cobain
Milk It, Nirvana

 

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
 

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Frank's Home Page
"Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon

 

You've never lived until you've heard "Thus Spake Zarathustra" on kazoo.

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"There are some upon this earth of yours, who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all out kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us."
-- The Ghost of Christmas Present (A Christmas Carol -- Charles Dickens)
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm

And as for musicians, I was thinking earlier today that the "computer geeks" and the guys in "that dumb band" in high school, though they may be outcasts at THAT point in time, tend to turn into the people later on with the most interesting and rewarding careers later in life. And now that I'm FINALLY doing something I love, I can look at the "in crowd" and laugh that they're working at the local supermarket. I love the subtle ironies of life.

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"You're just about as useful as .JPGs to Helen Keller."

- Weird Al (It's All About The Pentiums)
 

And the point of this rambling: hmm, I'm not quite sure. So, I guess I'll just sit down and shut up.

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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
 

I bet TMBG combined don't get as much tail in a year as Sean Kinney does in a month :-)

And Ultra, it doesn't help to look like a musician. Women only like guys in bands, not guys who just wear flannel and Alice In Chains t-shirts.

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"Look on the bright side is suicide" - Kurt Cobain
Milk It, Nirvana

 

The frustration you are feeling toward women that you are around right now is due to their refusal to engage in long term mating: rather, I suspect, they are only in their current trysts for short term sexual satisfaction. Buss said that in the short term, heterosexual women look for men with hip/waist ratios of 0.8, adequate social competency and hierarchy rank, and exagerated features of masculinity (which at their extreme psychologists call supranormal stimuli), such as deep-set eyes, broad chests and shoulders, tall height, and large chins (Jay Leno? ).

Buss would predict your success is going to increase in a year or two when women begin using long term mating strategies, which include all of the above, but add wealth-earning potential and intelligence to their criteria, usually moving them up the priority list above the previous attributes. At that point you will start pulling out ahead and netting the real catches who are going to make the best child-rearing mothers that really make men happy for the rest of their lives (not the hyper-masculine entities that piss you off so.)

So hang in there! I am living proof of Buss's theory and I can tell you the view sucks while you're climbing, but once you get to the summit, it becomes a very worthwhile journey.

PS: It's good to see everyone again!

------------------
"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.

 

That said, she's engaged to a 35 yr old. A lesser fox would despise this man on sight due to raging jealousy, but not I. .....

..

I despise him because he's a git.

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"I cannot live out that life.
That man is bereft of passion... and imagination!
That is not who I am!"

------------------
--Then, said Cranly, do you not intend to become a protestant?
--I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

An assumption of evolutionary psychology is that we have not progressed much beyond our hunter/gatherer days that comprise over 95% of human existence.

That said, men and women both are looking for certain characteristics in their mates that will facilitate the passing on of his or her own genes into as many reproductions of one's self as possible.

Men, who expend comparitively few resources in reproductive machinery (the penis, testicles, and several milliliters of semen made in a few hours), are looking to mate with as many women as possible who will safely bear children into the world and then be able to rear them into self-sufficient adults. Therefore, men (ideally) look to have sex with as many women as they can (so it may be said that men can be pigs ). Men look for a waist/hip ratio of 0.66 indicating the woman's ability to carry a child. They look for well formed breasts that can produce sufficient amounts of milk. Men look for women who show no outward signs of disease (blotchy skin, physical deformities, clear eyes, especially the whites, etc.) and are athleticly fit but with enough body fat that childbearing will not pose a health risk (i.e. not heavy-built or muscular, but curvy). They also look for women who are faithful and will not mate with other men behind their back.

However, since women over the long run require monogamy, men look for the most ideal women when they can not mate with multiple women. Therefore, to maximize their children's capacity for survival, they look for the most intelligent women that can impart the most techniques for later use.

Women expend comparatively large amounts of resources in reproduction (a large reproductive system and nine months of childbearing) and therfore look for the best candidates for children so they can get it right the first time and not expend resources on children who have little chance of survival. Women look for men who are physically fit and do not display outward signs of genetic deformity, again, clear skin, muscular build, and low occurrence of disease. They also look for men who have more exaggerrated masculine features indicating earlier onset of puberty and fertility (the reverse goes for men too). Women, who spend much more time in the hunting gathering group while men are off hunting, look for social protection from group rivals. Therefore they look for men who have competence in appropriating resources from the group in large enough quantities to support children.

Over the long term, women, like men, understand that intelligence is correlated with survival and choose mates with higher intelligence then other group members and who use it toward garnering more resources.

Buss's conclusions are that men's emphasis on women's physical attractiveness is a deep seeded instinct to maximise the survival of the species. A woman who most men consider attractive is also the one who is likely to produce the most offspring. Buss also states that the women's emphasis on a man's fidelity and wallet are evolutionary strategies to ensuring the survival of the species too. Buss conducted his major study on many different cultures to see if these characterisitics are shared by members of each sex in different areas of the world (37 different cultures I think).

Some have criticisized his research saying that women are in disadvantaged positions all over the world. to counter this criticism, Buss did a content analysis of lovers' ads in the paper of rich women to find what they were looking for. To skip to the chase, he found that rich older women were not looking for a young stud, but still looked for a rich older man who would provide for them, should they have any children.

Buss's work has shown very strong evidence that many of the sexual and reproductive behavior we engage in are consistent across time and location, and that knowing how they work can lend insight into many of the frustrations we experience as sexual beings.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to post them. I've probably left out stuff that people would like to know more about, but I can't think of much more to say in a first draft summary of a huge and encompassing theory that is still in its growth.

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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.

 

So what we're "a little bit" nerdy and who actually care for our marks(which of course, have a great impact for our future). We may not be like the so-call "cool" people(heavy drinking, wild parties, etc. you name it, oh, by the way no offence if any), in which there are not that many, we can definiately still have a fun and not to mention a lot more PRODUCTIVE life! I personally have tons of friends who share the same thought.

For the "magazine statistics", I will probably reconsider the reliability, and "high school romance" are seldmon serious(most of them don't even last for two months for God's sakes!)

In the mean time, I say that we kick back, enjoy our "teenage innocence"(if any), and leave the "relations" stuffs for the older dude(again, no offense if any).
 

If you're gonna hate people, find a personality reason. And NO-ONE thinks that the Euphonium is a cool instrument, NO-ONE.

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"Sorry Wendy, I jsu can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison
 

"Therefore, men (ideally) look to have sex with as many women as they can (so it may be said that men can be pigs)."

Can't argue with that.

"They look for well formed breasts that can produce sufficient amounts of milk."

Is there actually a scientific correlation between large breasts and milk? It seems unlikely because many Asians have small breasts, but their population isn't any smaller. Or it could just be some unfounded assumption on males' part.

"Over the long term, women, like men, understand that intelligence is correlated with survival and choose mates with higher intelligence then other group members and who use it toward garnering more resources."

I hope he's not implying that women value intelligence later than men. Maybe it's just the way you worded it.

"Buss's conclusions are that men's emphasis on women's physical attractiveness is a deep seeded instinct to maximise the survival of the species. "

I always thought it was because men are more visually oriented. A higher ratio of men are artists, for example.

"Buss did a content analysis of lovers' ads in the paper of rich women to find what they were looking for."

Like, duh. A woman who would post ads for a companion probably desperately wants the security to begin with.

I can't help thinking that this whole thing is too much of a generalization. Humans sound rather like lab mice. Perhaps you should mention more evidence for this theory.

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--Then, said Cranly, do you not intend to become a protestant?
--I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

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Frank's Home Page
"I'm still amazed at how unintuitive the Windows world is and how it tries to mimic the Mac." - John de Lancie
 

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"The battle is raging inside my weary heart
screaming for me to let it all go...
My body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

-FTM

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii
 

And I'm still upset than no-one's got annoyed at my .sig yet. In Lee's absence, I'm trying to be offensive.

All that stuff about furthering the genetic line has largely been observed in nature too.

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

 

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Samaritan: "A good hot curry will help heal your wounds. That is, unless your religion forbids it".

Man: (Eyes growing wide) "No religion forbids a good hot curry".

-From some movie.
 

Liam: I know, I'm trying my hardest too. See the above portion of my post. As for your siggy, I don't get it :-)

I'll respond to the sex stuff in the morning (afternoon) cause I don't like to think about women before I sleep. It makes me depressed. I prefer to be upbeat when I sleep. Oooh, that reminds me, I got to put on some NIN

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"Here is another word that rhymes with shame" - Kurt Cobain
Blew, Nirvana

PsyLiam: I love the Southpark reference, I had actually been thinking about using the same signature.

To everyone else: I'm suprised I havent gotten any comments on my signature.

-FTM

P.S. or why hasn't anyone asked what FTM stands for?

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii
 

That guy is a bloody genius! He's hit the nail on the head. Thanks dude for posting that. It somewhat explains why the girls in the circle that considers me a "punk rock faggot" are more attracted to me than the girls who consider me a "lanky metalhead."

Of course, I'm a freak. I'm far more interested in a girl's ass than in her breasts (not that those aren't important, cause if they weren't, how could I consider myself shallow?). But I think we've already proved that I'm an anomaly, some sort of fuck up in the evolutionary process.

To express some of Ziyal's concerns, well, yes, it is sexist. But it's damned accurate too! Women, for the most part, are like that. And yes, they DO look for that hip ratio. But it's just expressed as "Wow, he's so handsome" as opposed to "He's so dorky looking" and you've probably done the same yourself.

Now, if only we could find a way to make this more useful. I'm always for using science to further, well, gittin some. Cause afterall, isn't that the true meaning of life?

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"Rape me, do it and do it again" - Kurt Cobain
Rape Me, Nirvana
 

I'm going to move to the wilderness and become a hermit. A bitter hermit. And I'll be HAPPY that way, too! So there!

~LOA

[DISCLAIMER: This outburst was not cuased in any way by this thread... the outburt was there, ready to happen... this thread just prompted it to come out... please, carry on]

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"The battle is raging inside my weary heart
screaming for me to let it all go...
My body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

Loa: What, that's not aimed at me? Damn, I try to tick off as many people as I can.

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"Rape me, do it and do it again" - Kurt Cobain
Rape Me, Nirvana
 

-FTM

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii
 

However once there I wish to make it plain that I take my time. Ohhh yeah.

Am I being offensive enough yet?
Shall I metamorphose into Fat Harry White off Radio 1?

Joking aside, I find women a total enigma. Their capacity for duplicity is remarkable, and their taste in men is, frankly, a cosmic joke. It's a good thing I'm so incredibly arrogant or I might call into question just what an incredibly gorgeous fox I am.

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"I cannot live out that life.
That man is bereft of passion... and imagination!
That is not who I am!"

I'll admit when I first read his theories I thought they were sexist, but after reading the experimental evidence and talking with my professor about it, it must be understood that both his theories can be right and women can live equally meaningful and productive lives as men.

Good question about the subconscious. I'm not sure even Buss knows for sure. It may be a genetically programed behavior to look for certain characteristics in the opposite sex or a conditioned set of biases. Buss conducted an experiment to tease apart these factors and got interesting results. He had a young child (less than a year old, I don't remember exactly how old) put in front of two televisions spaced apart so the child could crawl to each one and look at it without seeing the other television at the same time. On one television there was an attractive member of the opposite sex, on the other a relatively unattractive one. Buss measured to time the child spent gazing at each face and found children looked longer at attractive faces than unattractive faces. This experiment would indicate that there is some genetic programming for looking at attractive individuals over unattractive.

The piece about the breasts I should articulated better. What he meant by well formed breasts are breasts that are not deformed in any way anatomically or by disease (which would most likely be measured by looking at skin blemishes; a big tumor on the breast would not be sexual turn on for a man).

The valuing of intelligence isn't something that necessarily comes later or sooner for either sex. Rather, the timing of when people begin to look for it more probably is a result of their current goals in mating. Men or women who are looking for the simple experience of sexuality with little regard to marriage or extended child-bearing would not look for long-term characteristics in sexual partners. Hence, many people in situations where they have little intent of following up their sexual experience with a long-term relaitonship (e.g. high school, college, vacations) would not look for wealth-earning potential or intelligence as much as sexual potency.

According to one of my professors, men are not necessarily more visually oriented. I think there may be some studies showing that across cultures showing that women in cultures where they are not socialized to be non-visual infomation gatherers show as much arousal to erotica as men. However, I will need to check up on this before I commit to it.

Good point about the content analysis expeperiment! If I can ever get my hands on that experiment, I'll see if he tried in any way to control for the desperation factor (although I cna't think of any way right now; it ould just be an experimental flaw).

The theory is definately not meant to be a predictive tool for every sexual situation. Buss would probably say that the theory sounds so generalized precisely because it is general to all members of the human species; deviation from the predictive behaviors would be a result of cultural factors or other factors mentioned above.

Liam, I forgot to say that I hoped you would chime in too since I'm pretty sure that you would have been exposed to this theory too. Feel free to fill in any gaps in my explanations!

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"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.

 

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Frank's Home Page
"I'm still amazed at how unintuitive the Windows world is and how it tries to mimic the Mac." - John de Lancie
 

Being a band kid did NOT do wonders for my social life. As a shy, naive, funny-looking kind-of-dweeb, but a nice one, I was teased mercilessly by the female of the species.
Oh, I had come-ons tossed my way, but after a couple of ones that were set-ups for further embarassment, I refused to take any of them seriously. This probably didn't help matters, since I was already dense enough I couldn't have picked up on anything less than a blatant aproach -- which was likely to be just another setup. (Vicious Circle, see?)

Anyway, after my Deconversion, Crack-up, and entrance into college, I adopted a Dan Fielding guise(Lechery). This is ALSO a bad idea. Fortunately, I returned to being me in time for grad school, where I was simply tormented by women again.

Then I got a job, and met a girl at the library who was just as screwed up as I, and we've been together over two years now, and although we will never satisfy Buss by producing offspring, we have a lot of fun practicing.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

~LOA

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"The battle is raging inside my weary heart
screaming for me to let it all go...
My body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

However, on the band social scale, they still outranked drummers -- "dumbers" -- and majorettes -- "major regrets."

Hmm. Now that I think about it, NOBODY in our band held anybody else in high esteem.

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

BTW< in previous mentions of band, I wasn't referring to a marching band. And bass wasn't referring to a tuba. It was Bass Guitar. And since I know more people that play tuba than bass guitar, I'd say it was more original.

(It's only 2 BG against 3 Tuba thoug. And one of those plays both. Dang).

Being in a rock/pop/metal/Dingo's ate my babies band is cool. To a degree. To be brutal, being in a marching/wind/clarinet trio/barbershop quartet isn't.

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

 

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

 

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"Rape me, do it and do it again" - Kurt Cobain
Rape Me, Nirvana
 

~LOA

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"The battle is raging inside my weary heart
screaming for me to let it all go...
My body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

Still, I can't see a rock band playing "Thus Sprach Zarathustra."

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Besides, the best piece of classical music ever is the final movement from the New World Symphony. Or possibly Beethoven's Ninth. Moevements 2 and 4.

And the best instrument is the French Horn anyway. Or Trombone. They get the cool parts. So the answer, if you want to be cool and still play decent music, is to learn the French Horn and Rhythem Guitar (less pressure than the lead, but you can still dance across the stage).

Still, as a member of a marching band, it's about as cool as wearing white socks with Doc Martins. With shorts. And a tank-top. That's purple. With a "Kiss me quick" hat.

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

 

I think in any good band, the Lead player (Which I aspire to be), accentuates the rythym player by augmenting certain notes and/or chords during a riff. Well, at least I think it's cool.

Besides, everyone knows the Lead Singer gets all the women.

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I bet when Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would
always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

-Jack Handey

 

And the ONLY sort of band that is cool is rock related. That extends to jazz, blues (where we get rock) and of course, rap.

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"No, I don't have a gun" - Kurt Cobain
Come As You Are, Nirvana
 

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--Then, said Cranly, do you not intend to become a protestant?
--I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

As for who gets the chicks, Right now the only two people in the band I hang out with that DON'T have girlfriends are the lead vocalist and the lead guitar player (both of whom I've been informed I'll someday marry).... hehehe... so there goes THAT theory.... even the SOUND guy has a GF... in fact... he's ALWAYS got a GF... hmmmmmm.............

~LOA

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"The battle is raging inside my weary heart
screaming for me to let it all go...
My body is weak and I can't take the struggle anymore...
the love that was here is filled up by anger and rage..." ~FOM

------------------
"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."

"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.