Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Basically, it means that just because some rights are spelled out, this does not mean that these are all there is.
Comments?
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When only the police have guns, it's called a police state.
-- Bumper Sticker
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited December 23, 1999).]
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works
C/O
Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu,
Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law
1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza
Dis, The Nether Regions
"A Hell of a Law Firm"
Funny, that. I'll have to remember to ask about that.
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
As for the new DT, no comment.
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Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works
C/O
Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu,
Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law
1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza
Dis, The Nether Regions
"A Hell of a Law Firm"
I also wouldn't mind some independent walled cities. Nothing beats that for self-government.
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
Why don't we just raze Washington, forgo the benefits of living in a society and go back to living in caves? We have lost of guns to defend ourselves against some sort of organized despot like we all know Bill Clinton is.
[end sarcasm]
However I found this to be quite interesting. From the evil ACLU.
And this one as well from a great source, FindLaw.
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Simpson, I am by most measures a successful man. I have wealth and power beyond the dreams of you and your clock-punching ilk. And yet, I've led a solitary life. The fair sex remains a mystery to me. You seem to have a way with women, a certain, how should I put it... Animal magneteasmuh [sic]. Help me Simpson, tell me your secret.
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited December 23, 1999).]
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
Just what do you think would happen if the federal government disolved? After the manifold wars between former states to see who got to keep the nuclear technology, that is. The individual states wouldn't be able to defend themselves. And before you say that they could form alliances, that's what we're supposed to have now that's spun out of control.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
I'm not talking about the elimination of the federal government, I'm just talking about a decentralised military and the removal of some regions from that government.
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
*Does not remember being taught freedom of privacy!*
Does anyone remember that the Constitution says there shall be no establishment of a religion?
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With 17 hours of class, guess what I'm doing.
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
--Baloo
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When only the police have guns, it's called a police state.
-- Bumper Sticker
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
Bryce: Privacy falls under Amendment IV:
quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated....
quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....
Jay: I believe the word Monty used was magn�tisme, since it's the French word for "magnetism".
Right now, the U.S. is the world's enforcer. You step out of line, the U.N. can't do anything much. The U.S. can.
If the mighty industrial and military power that is the U.S. was to suddenly collapse into splinter groups, we'd have a problem.
Say you have a major problem brewing in... say, Slovakia. No one would consider the Disjointed States of America to be able to help/enforce.
"President! President Bill! The (insert group here) are causing trouble in Slovakia. We're needed to stop a major incident!"
"Okay, get everyone (senators, etc.) to the polls so we can decide what states go."
???
Uhm, no.
That's political instability, and it wouldn't work. For the U.S., or anyone else.
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
If so, you're rather first-part-of-the-century U.S. citizen, Frank. 
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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If the laws of the land were given to a society should not we take the laws away now?
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When only the police have guns, it's called a police state.
-- Bumper Sticker
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited December 24, 1999).]
Incidentally, the First Amendment is a wonderful thing. No establishment, that also means that the US government cannot endorse any one religion. You Christians don't seem to understand that.
My favourite ammendment, well, lemme check the constitution. I have it tacked up on my wall. It truly is a brilliant document.
I would have to say the fifth. The American System of Justice is a marvel, the 8th wonder of the world. Although you right wing fanatics wish to remove it, the concept of allowing ten guilty men to go free so that one innocent man does not go to jail is brilliant.
Now, I like this imperialism thread. I say we pursue it! I would like to pose this question:
Who decided the US is the supreme source of what is right?
Baloo: As to the American people wouldn't allow it, bullshit. The American people are so bloody brainwashed and stupid and ignorant, they'd allow it. They'd allow anything if the media made it palatable for them. That's why I'm no longer a socialist (at least this week). People are so bloody stupid, they would never grasp anything beyond how to buy porn! People are worthless and they all should burn in hell! Omega, can you work on that for me? Thanks.
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"Sell the kids for food" - Kurt Cobain
In Bloom, Nirvana
The US did, of course.
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Frank's Home Page
"My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
"As to the American people wouldn't allow it, bullshit. The American people are so bloody brainwashed and stupid and ignorant, they'd allow it. They'd allow anything if the media made it palatable for them."
It would take a great deal of work by the media to produce the amount of brainwashing necessary to convince the American public that the introduction of an additional 5 billion citizens (plus a few) would have a positive effect on the U.S. Besides, Congress, which is responsible for issuing declarations of war (one would almost be mandatory if the U.S. expected to keep it's newly-conquered territories) would recognize that these new territories would either have to be administered as protectorates (expensive) or admitted as states. This latter option would be no more palatable, since it would dilute the authority of individual congressmen and senators.
Add in the fact that many of these nations are military powers in their own right, with a national agenda that is not the same as the U.S., and even if the U.S. did decide to take on all comers, it would be hopelessly outgunned and outmanned before a single shot could be fired in anger.
"People are so bloody stupid, they would never grasp anything beyond how to buy porn! People are worthless and they all should burn in hell!"
The above statement is dysfunctionally hostile, filled with contempt. Do you include yourself in the description above or are you exempt? If you are not exempt, then why? If you hold us in such contempt, why do you deign to speak to us? If you do not include us in that group you describe, why do you not make this clear?
DT: It seems to me that your anger stems from something other than what set you off. What is it?
I know you asked Omega to explain this, but I'll go ahead. Yes, we all should burn in Hell because we are all worthless. That's why God sent His Son to die on a cross as the ultimate sacrifice for His children. Now, all who believe are made right.
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Peace on Earth
[This message has been edited by bryce (edited December 28, 1999).]
Really. I can't even believe ANYONE believes that. Certainly "God As Advertised" could not feel this way.
Is there a whole lot of sense in going to all the trouble of creating something, setting down intricate laws and modes of behaviour for it to function with, and going to extremes in order to 'save' it, if you think it's WORTHLESS???
Piffle! Folderol! Balderdash!
People tell you you're worthless so that you'll be easier to CONTROL and ABUSE.
This is why the most common element in all kinds of child abuse is an attempt to make the abused individual feel.. what? WORTHLESS.
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
DT:
"No establishment, that also means that the US government cannot endorse any one religion. You Christians don't seem to understand that."
What the heck are you talking about, now? 'We' Christians? Didn't you say that you believe every single word in the Bible? And why do you say that we don't understand this? I have no desire to force my beliefs on anyone else, and I doubt that anyone else here (besides you, that is) wants to, either.
"Although you right wing fanatics wish to remove it, the concept of allowing ten guilty men to go free so that one innocent man does not go to jail is brilliant."
Same opening sentance as above. I have no clue what you're talking about. I don't know one conservative who would agree with the idea of sending an innocent man to prison along with ten guilty men. In fact, it sounds more like something you would support. "The good of the many outweighs the good of the one," you know. At least, in your philosophy.
"People are so bloody stupid, they would never grasp anything beyond how to buy porn!"
Ah, how many times have we heard this from tyrranical monarchs and dictators? I forget. "The people are too stupid to govern themselves. They have to have someone to take care of them." Tell me: what automatically exempts you from this stupidity of the people? This is the root of the difference between conservatism and liberalism. Liberals want the government to have more power over our lives because they think we can't take care of ourselves. Well, that, and they get more power. Conservatives, on the other hand, believe that the people CAN and SHOULD govern themselves.
It's like the pope's supposed infalibility. Until he becomes pope, he's just a man, but as soon as he does become pope, he can suddenly do no wrong. It's the same as you and so many others before you have said, DT: all people are stupid, unless they happen to be ruling other people. You seem to think that just because someone disagrees with you, they're an idiot. What makes you so smart that your supposed solution is so good that anyone who doesn't see its merits immediatly has the IQ of a ballpoint pen?
"People are worthless and they all should burn in hell! Omega, can you work on that for me?"
Is that a reference to our little conversation? You know, the point where you called me a tool of Satan and told me I'd burn in Hell?
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 28, 1999).]
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Peace on Earth
And you conservative hate the system of justice. Take the death penalty, completely unamerican. The concept of due process would have been turned to nothing in this country, were it not for some liberal judges. I could go into more specifics, but that is best saved for another thread.
Baloo: Congress has not issued a declaration of war since December 1941, and it never will again. That is a relic of a system that made sense, we don't need it in our theocracy.
And yes, I'm in with the whole lot. All us humans suck. Daryus was right, there is no truth. I need to change my siggy again.
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"Throw me in the fire and I won't throw a fit" - Kurt Cobain
Scentless Apprentice, Nirvana
*looks back*
Ah, so he did. Sorry, Bryce.
DT:
YOU are calling MY beliefs wacked out?
*L*
But seriously now, what do you find so strange about them?
"I may believe the Bible, but I am not a Christian."
We seem to get to semantics around here alot. If you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and believe that He is the Son of God, I consider you a Christian, whether you go for the organized part or not.
"And you conservative hate the system of justice."
Uh, no. We're the ones who defend the rule of law. Liberals want to qualify crimes based on who was the victim. "Were they gay? Were they black? Oh, well then the criminal deserves about five times the prison sentance." That's not justice. ('Course, since pretty much everyone stands to your right, you might be refering to what I call a liberal, in which case you would be correct.)
"Take the death penalty, completely unamerican."
Gotta agree here. I don't like the death penalty. No, that doesn't make me a liberal. That just means I disagree with some conservatives. There's disagreement among liberals, too, you know. You can have disagreements with other members of your party and still be considered conservative or liberal, as long as your basic philosophy remains the same.
"The concept of due process would have been turned to nothing in this country, were it not for some liberal judges. I could go into more specifics, but that is best saved for another thread."
I believe I'd like to see that. Please, give some examples. And I feel compelled to remind you that, until '94, liberals were in control of congress, and had been for several decades. Conservatives had almost no control over policy until '94, so if those policies ever had a chance of passing, they were supported by liberals in the first place.
"Congress has not issued a declaration of war since December 1941..."
The Gulf War and Korean war weren't delcared? I didn't know that.
People keep saying that conservatives (more specifically, the Christian Coalition) want to force their religion on everyone, and your statements seem to infer that you believe that (sorry if I'm wrong here). Can anyone give me one example? One?
Oh, and about my previous message, where I was talking about the idea of the people being dumb and needing someone to take care of them: that's also the rationalle that some used to justify slavery.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 29, 1999).]
1.) Prayer in school.
2.) No marriage for people who desire a committment, if they happen to be of the same gender.
3.) Creationism.
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
I mean, we kill wild dogs...
And wild people can do a lot more damage...
and upwards of 95% of people convicted of murder have an average of 7 prior felonies.
The "crime of passion" is largely mythical.
I mean, there was this one guy in my state not long ago, who raped an old grandmother. They put him away for several years. Eventually, as all inmates do, he got out. Then he came back and did it AGAIN (to the same woman).
And you're telling me we should let a creature like that continue to exist?
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
I never am quite sure what exactly people are talking about with this. Does this mean that students can't get together to pray? Does it mean that the teachers can't make a classroom be quiet while some of the students pray? I'd say that the constitutional approach would be to allow (not help) anyone to pray whenever they want, in whatever manner they want, as long as it doesn't interfere with the class. Any law forcing people to take part in a religious (for lack of a better word) ceremony is unconstutitional. But any law preventing people from doing the same is, too. As long as your expressing your beliefs doesn't interfere with someone else's education.
"2.) No marriage for people who desire a committment, if they happen to be of the same gender."
Marriage is a religious ritual, so I agree that the government has no business creating rules governing it. What does a marriage mean to the government, anyway? That you have to pay somewhat higher taxes is all I can see. (You'd think the taxes would be LOWER on married couples. Seems like liberals have a bad habit of punishing correct behavior. And before anyone says anything, I don't mean correct from a moral standpoint. I mean correct from the POV of the prooven statistic that children born out of wedlock have a far greater chance of engaging in criminal activity and joining gangs. Time for the country to face it: the nuclear family is essential to our culture.)
"3.) Creationism."
Oh, let's not start arguing about that again. But from an educational standpont, evolution directly contradicts the religious beliefs of many (me, for one), so by teaching it in schools, the government is choosing sides in a religious debate. It can't do that.
So who tried to pass these laws, and when?
My problem with the death penalty is that I don't think we have the right to decide that a human life is unsalvagable.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
Beyond that, and I don't mean to restart this whole fight, facts are neutral. The government has no obligation to cower before the religious beliefs of any group. Simple history offends a lot of people too. Shall we then delete those portions of it that are found offensive? Internment camps for citizens of Japanese descent? Offends my belief in America. Delete it. Etc.
And prayer in schools. Good topic. Touchy one too. Omega, you mention something about worship so long as it doesn't interfere with the education of others. How then do we accomodate Islamic students? Most people calling for school prayer are doing so from a Christian background, where prayers can be done silently and without any exterior signs. That can't be done in Islam, or many other religions.
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"And she stands beneath the mistletoe screaming. For him to stand beneath the mistletoe, screaming."
--
They Might Be Giants
Omega: They weren't declared. But you have no idea who Che Guevera is, so I wouldn't expect you to know more than American History as taught in school.
"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Then, we conquered the continent from the savages, overthrew the British tyrants, destroyed slavery, and won the world freedom in World War I and II."
Simon: Yeah, you go man!
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
Do it between classes, then. After school, before school, whatever. Ask to be excused momentarily if timing is important. It can be done.
"facts are neutral"
True, but you can proove that the Holocaust occured and that Japanese-Americans were imprisoned during WWII. It's fact. As far as evolution is concerned, you have little evidence, and all of it can be explained in other ways. It's not prooven fact. Not by a long shot. I'm thinking about writing my own school textbooks for publication. My discussion on the origin of the universe will be about two sentances long. All it will do is explain that some believe that life originated by a series of effectively random events, and that others believe that a supernatural entity or entities created the universe. It will also point out good resources for both sides of the argument, if any readers are interested. And yes, I'll probably contact First o' Two and Sol to get the names of good evolutionary resources.
DT:
"The concept that all inmates eventually get out is a concept made by conservatives like yourself to scare people into murdering their fellow man. "
Well, all inmates eventually DO get out, unless they're given life imprisonment, death, or die in prison by some other means. In many major cities, it is a fact that most inmates don't serve anywhere near their sentances. Check your stats. I think it's somewhere around 30% of sentence in in L.A.
"But you have no idea who Che Guevera is, so I wouldn't expect you to know more than American History as taught in school."
Considerably more, actually, but there's definitely some stuff I've missed. Care to point me to some good textbooks? I've looked up the name, actually, to see why I'd never heard of someone who you seem to think is so important.
Ernesto "Che" Guevera. It's no wonder I've never heard of him. Doesn't seem to have done much of import. Wrote a few books on socialism. Protested against Pero�. Helped Castro run Cuba for a while. Seems like the most important thing he did was sever economic ties with the US, opting for Russia and the Socialist bloc instead. So if it weren't for him, Cuba'd probably be in far better econimic shape, and we might not have had the Cuban missile crisis. Over all, not a very important figure in the history of the west. Did I miss anything?
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
A non complete list of books:
Howard Zinn
A People's History of the United States : 1492-Present
Joyce Appleby
Telling the Truth About History
Peter Novick
That Noble Dream : The 'Objectivity Question' and the American Historical Profession
Daniel J. Boorstin
Americans : The National Experience
~~~
The Creators/a History of Heroes of the Imagination
John Bodnar
Remaking America : Public Memory, Commemoration, and Patriotism in the Twentieth Century
~~~
Bonds of Affection : Americans Define Their Patriotism
Mary Beth Norton
Founding Mothers & Fathers : Gendered Power and the Forming of American Society
Leon Fink (Editor)
Major Problems in the Gilded Age and the Progressive Era
Michael G. Kammen
The Mystic Chords of Memory : The Transformation of Tradition in American Culture
I think I'll stop now after having put my years in school to good use. Have fun!
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It's no use. I guess I'll have to leave all my money to the Egg Advisory Council. Eggs have gotten quite a bad rap lately, you know, Smithers.
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited December 30, 1999).]
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
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CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--Ambrose Bierce
<B>Come Hither and Yawn...</B>
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"And she stands beneath the mistletoe screaming. For him to stand beneath the mistletoe, screaming."
--
They Might Be Giants
"Of course, in your world, all thought comes from a few small parts of the Bible, Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, and Darwin's Theory of Evolution."
Huh? Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure I understand that. If you mean my life philosophy, you're not that far off. Just change it to the entire Bible, and throw some Rush Limbaugh and the Constitution in there. But as for thought coming from Darwin's theory of Evoltion: Ha! (Just kidding, guys!)
Sol:
Good point, but leaving class quietly is not siginificantly disruptive. You can always pick up what you missed when you get back, and your departure will cause a distraction for about fifteen seconds. And then only for the first few times.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
Isn't it great that (if you are an American in this debate) you live in a country where you can speak your beliefs and freely criticize your fellow citizens, social institutions (such as churches) and even the state in a public forum without fear of punishment or reprisal?
Thank God! (Or Darwin, if you prefer, or blind chance and coincidence, it's up to you) ;-)
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Dane
"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7
Pray tell, how?
Ever have to stop a class you've conducted in order to let someone leave the room and then come back? I have. It's extremely hard to get going again. Especially if it's half the student body. The time lost is uaually at least triple the length of the absence.
I'll let you in on something. You aleready HAVE the right to pray in school. You always HAVE. Silently. Whenever you want. On your OWN time. WITHOUT disrupting class. Pray during study hall. Pray during lunch. Pray in the restroom. Pray while the teacher's handing back the tests (like most students do.) Nobody will stop you. How can they? They're not telepathic.
What you DON'T have the right to do is pray loudly, disruptively, or non-inclusively, in the form of an organization or official school-sanctioned prayer.
Besides, you already can pray whenever you want to at home and in church. Personally, I think an entire DAY set aside for it should be enough for anybody. It's quality, not quantity, that matters, right?
and while you're at it...
More examples.
4.) The rewriting of the Pledge of Allegiance to include "under God"
5.) The recoinage of our money with the slogan "in God we trust."
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited December 30, 1999).]
There are no atheists in foxholes, nor are there many in the presence of a pop quiz.
As far as allowing prayer in class, I would think that it would be against the law to prevent someone from observing an important aspect of their faith. When I worked as part of our mobility program at the base, I was occasionally asked to escort an Islamic person (person of the Islamic faith? What's the proper term anyway?) to a sequestered room so they could pray at the appropriate time in privacy (once you've processed in, you may not leave the area except under escort, until you get on the plane). As long as it did not seriously disrupt the mobility process, we went to great lengths to ensure that those who wished to comply with their religion were afforded the opportunity to do so.
Many religions allow their members some leeway in the performance of some requirements when it conflicts with good sense. According to a friend of mine who happens to be Jewish, he is not obligated to keep kosher during times of war or other emergencies. I imagine there are exceptions for other faiths as well.
--Baloo
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CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--Ambrose Bierce
Come Hither and Yawn...[/B]
I know I can. Actually, I can't even remember the last time I prayed out loud. I'm just arguing the point for other religions. Isn't it Islam where you have to bow towards Mecca five times a day? (Never could find out whether those are specified times or not. Anyone care to enlighten me?)
"Ever have to stop a class you've conducted in order to let someone leave the room and then come back?"
Who says you have to stop class? Why not just have the student inform the teacher if he or she needs to leave during class? That way, everyone who needs to know what's going on will. Then they can just stand up and walk out quietly. A student won't miss much during a five minute absence, and they can always find out what they missed after class.
"What you DON'T have the right to do is pray... in the form of an organization"
I hope you don't mean outside the class. Outside the class, you can do whatever you want, group or otherwise. During class, you can't talk, or hold up signs, or what have you, because it disrupts class as long as you do. That's why I suggest that people whose religions require them to do things that may disrupt the class be allowed to leave temporarily.
"4.) The rewriting of the Pledge of Allegiance to include "under God"
5.) The recoinage of our money with the slogan "in God we trust.""
More like the rewriting of the pledge to EXCLUDE "under God", as has been done before. I believe it was there to begin with. That recoinage happened in 1865, in case anyone's interested.
First, you seem to think that this government has to officially have nothing to do with God, in any form. That it can't even recognize His existance. I've got news for you: this country was founded on the religious principles found in the Bible. A book you should read: The Rewriting of American History, by Catherine Millard. You might learn something.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
When you pray to Mecca five times a day (one of the five pillars of the Islamic faith), there are no precise times, per se, but it must be done at set intervals (once in the morning, in the afternoon, once after every meal, when you're going to bed, something like that -- even though that's six). I'm remembering this from a few years ago in school, so this may not be entirely accurate.
So should there be laws allowing Muslim children to get out of class to pray? I'm not touching it with a 20-metre runabout.
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
And conservatives base their views on Darwin. It's called Social Darwinism, and you're a big purveyor of it yourself
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
I fully support the FARC and the Shining Path and I hope that they both achieve victory over the forces of capitalism, taking control of both Columbia and Peru, respectively.
See, now the FBI can legally investigate me. How the hell is that freedom? God bless America, or in lieu of that, blow this place straight to hell.
(the preceding was meant only to prove a point, I do not now nor ever have supported the FARC or the Shining Path, both of which are terrorist organizations)
Incidentally, murders convictions have been and can be overturned in court because the defendant was mentioned to be a member of a white supremacist party in the sentencing phase, yet it has been declared legal to uphold not just the conviction but the death sentence if it is mentioned that the defendant was a member of the Black Panther Party. Now, let's think, which one criticized the government, capitalism, and white America more? Hmm.... that's a tough one. Let's ask Fred Hampton. Can't, damn, he's dead. The pigs shot him. Let's ask Mark Clark then. Damn, he's dead too, same cops shot him down. How about the members of MOVE? Wait, they're either dead or in prison. What about Leonard Peltier? No, he's in prison, I forgot, even though the DA admitted in open court there is no proof at all. Hmm.. How about Geronimo? He's free! He only spent, how many years in jail? Thank God I live in a country that doesn't have political prisoners. Oooh, I hate that China! They're so evil! Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where radical political dissent is tolerated? Let's ask Malcolm X... DAMN! He's dead too. How about Martin Luther King Jr? He should know, right... Oh, I know who would know! A. Mitchell Palmer and J. Edgar Hoover. Must be something about using your middle name...
"Prevent the rise of a messiah who could unify and electrify the militant black nationalist movement. Malcolm X might have been such a 'messiah;' he is the martyr of the movement today. Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael, and Elijah Muhammed all aspire to this position... King could be a real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed 'obedience' to 'white liberal doctrines' of nonviolence and embrace black nationalism"
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.
I've heard the term, but I've never bothered to find out what it meant. What is it?
"By recognizing one god..."
Who says we're recognizing ONE god? Read the definition of "god". It can be used as a generic term refering to any deity.
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
If I were to adhere to this philosophy, I would promote mandatory euthanasia for the elderly, weak and crippled, or anyone else who was a "drain" on society's resources. "Grandma's in the rest home? It's a waste of resources. Give her the injection." Under Social Darwinism, Stephen Hawking would have been disposed of long before he had anything significant to say to the physics community and Grandma Moses would have been eliminated before she took up painting.
Social Darwinism has been used (not always under that banner) to promote such things as racial segregation and the forcible sterilization of habitual criminals and "idiots" during the 1920s in the U.S. It is the basis of the Nazi belief that the Aryan race had the right to subjugate and destroy all others because they had the power to do so.
Social Darwinism, when examined closely, is a sociopathic philosophy. It is the ultimate expression of self-interest to the exclusion of all other considerations. It is a manifestation of evil.
--Baloo
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CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--Ambrose Bierce
Come Hither and Yawn...[/B]
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited December 31, 1999).]
But other than that, it is evil indeed.
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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"Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 31, 1999).]
This country was founded on Social Darwinism, much before Darwin was born. Why are we here? Cause we were stronger than the natives. We killed them, so we have the land, and that's why we "deserve" it. Manifest destiny and all that. It's also the theory behind US imperialism. "We're" the strongest, so we decide what's right. That's why we get the Caspian Oil, that's why we tell Iraq and Serbia and Isreal and Turkey what to do. Isn't it?
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
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It's no use. I guess I'll have to leave all my money to the Egg Advisory Council. Eggs have gotten quite a bad rap lately, you know, Smithers.
~C. Montgomery Burns
After one hundred years or so of our current technological revolution, people have thankfully become a bit more discerning. Most, anyway.
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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.
as for DT.. well, let's just say I don't see him moving anytime soon to any of the countries he claims the USA is "repressing," probably for the same reasons that so many of their citizens often seem anxious to move here.
Maybe we're heavy-handed, but (aside from possibly The Netherlands and Canada,) we're still the best game in town.
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
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"Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera
thass' a joke.
(rhetorical question)
But if the UK rules, why do Ireland, Scotland, and (I hear now) Wales, make squeaks about independence?
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Strangely, the Scottish and Irish people I've met do seem to love enforcing cultural sterotypes.
My brother-in-laws Scottish. When England's playing, he'll support them. Scotland's playing, he'll support them. Scotland beat England recently he was happy. His Scottish dad on the other hand wouldn't let us live it down. Kept going on and on about.
Likewise, Irish grandparents who have to watch ANYTHING Irish on TV, even if it is the yearly looking at hairy Irish backs competition.
It's mainly the older generation that want it. And the young generation that isn't getting sex.
It's also British nature. People in Liverpool complain about parliment being in London, saying that they only make rules for southern poofs. Now, considering that the distance between Liverpool and London is smaller than most US states, it shows you how much diversity we pack into such a small packet.
Of course, Monty'll be back soon, and he can clear it
up.
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"Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera
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"Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera
Plus, Sherlock Holmes came from London, so that's a bonus.
Canada's good, too.
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
And as both Daryus and Liam can attest, I have spent significant amount of times picking their brains about their respective countries for my interest of moving there. In fact, I plan to move to either England or Australia whence I get the money and my degree (unless the call of Kurt is too strong and I go to Seattle). I had planned to go to NATO member Germany (which is why I'm learning the language) but then I found out how much they dislike Slavs and I decided against it. Of course I'm not going to move to most of the places the US supresses. Why? White Man's Burden. The US is a neo-colonial power, and as such, rarely oppress their white, english speaking brethren. I am, unfortunately, without facility for language, so I'm restricted to countries in which English is predominant. That leaves Canada, US, UK, India, and Australia. Canada is just too goddamned cold, and India is actually worse than the US in terms of living conditions, so that leaves two other places, both of which I'm looking into. So, unless you expect me to carve "4 Real" into my arm, you'll have to take my word and be sure that, like Johnny Rotten, I mean it man.
Wow, got in references to Nirvana, Manic Street Preachers, and Sex Pistols all in one post. Impressive.
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
Who's following stereotypes now?
Seriously, its not bad at all. For example, Vancouver and its surrounding area have a(n almost depressingly) British climate. Other than the far north or the extreme interior of the country where there isn't much oceanic moisture, things are no different than the northern US.
So there.
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"BTW, I've just made that Harry Potter/Alexander Pope quote my new sig. :-)"
-Tim Nix, December 31, 1999
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"All in all is all we are" - Kurt Cobain
All Apologies, Nirvana
BTW, Australia is the only other country I'd consider moving to. And I plan on seeing it after uni.
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"Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera
It snowed on January 1st, for the first time this winter.
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"I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited January 07, 2000).]
You don't want me on one of my stereotype rants again.
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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"Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera