This college states everywhere that they accept and respect all other religions on the campus.

THEY ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

My friends and I, on a crazy whim, thought it'd be fun to draw a pretty pentagram in the freshly fallen snow... we were simply having a good time and celebrating the Goddess. Nothing more to be said about it.

After we were all done, we were looking over our efforts with enjoyment (it came out beautifully), when the Campus Police came up and started asking us all sorts of questions. They wanted to know what the symbol meant to us, and when we said it was a symbol of the Goddess, they expressed disbelief. They proceeded to tell us that what we were doing was wrong because: "It's wrong, this is a catholic campus, and it's just wrong". We were treated like a bunch of hooligans that were trying to make trouble, even though we, ourselves, acted quite peacefully about it.
They took down our names, made a big stink, and then made us deface the symbol of our religion by stomping all over it to make it "disappear" into the other snow.

It's not nearly over yet. There will be a meeting this week, no doubt, and we'll be made to look like the bad guys because we were "defacing the campus with an occult symbol". *sighs*.

That's not what we were doing at all, and nowhere in the school rules does it say we're not allowed to stamp religious symbols into the snow.

These people are WRONG. WE AREN'T.

*FUMES*

What ticks me off is that now we face disciplinary action. All because of a totally innocent snow sculpture. *sighs*

------------------
"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"
 

This is the line that I tend to believe. We all worship the same god, just call him by a different name and worship him in a different way. What's wrong with that? The only thing that our brave religious warriors would come up with is that it's wrong and it's not the right way. Bollocks!

Until the religious leaders stop this petty arguing, I'm afraid there will always be religious bigotry in the world and all of it will be in the name of god. "We are only purifying the world of evil and making it pure"

I'm sure Hitler must have said something similar before giving the go-ahead to the final solution. It's also a similar reason for the crusades taking place. This is why I have lost faith in what the religious clerics tell me. I follow my own code of ethics and those parts of my religion that I feel will not harm anyone else.

------------------
Whenever people agree with me, I always feel I must be wrong.

------------------
I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited January 31, 2000).]
 

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"I promise you, Wilma, that not one man on this force will rest until the criminal scum that did this are behind bars. Now let's go get a bite to eat." - Frank Drebbin, Detective Lieutenant in Police Squad
 

------------------
I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation
 

*no intent to get you mad*
Jubes, it is very common for a school like your's to do that. Some schools wouldn't even accept you. Here at AC we have a Jewish guy, but he has to attend our chapel services like everyone else.

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What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.
-paraphrased, author unknown-

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited January 31, 2000).]
 

You would assume that such a school would (and obviously does, in this case) hold the religion that the school is based around in higher esteem than others.

If I were you, I'd be upset as well, but not surprised, as it's a catholic school, and not a goddess school. (No offence intended. It might read offensively, so I put a disclaimer in here.)

------------------
I bet when Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would
always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

-Jack Handey

These guys can't get jobs elsewhere, so they are put into a position where they can hassle the best and the brightest.

------------------
Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

But do not let the idiots of the world get you down.

------------------
I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

------------------
Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.

And the thing is, they state quite cleary in their anti-discrimination policy that THEY ACCEPT OTHER RELIGIONS AND THE RIGHT OF THIER STUDENTS TO PRACTICE THEM.

So, the whole catholic vs. pagan thing SHOULD NOT be an issue.

Anyways, I just had a meeting with the Dean of Students today, who did some looking up on the Wiccan religion, and has decided not to take a stance quite yet. She asked me all sorts of questions, and I answered them best I could, and hopefully she'll decide that we weren't trying to raise any sort of rucus. I'd like to see this end peacefully, I have no qualms personally with the catholic religion.

------------------
"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"
 

------------------
"You're right. They wouldn't be able to see anything but the top of your head. The glare could blind them."
-B'Ellana Torres, Virtuoso

Now, if you want to focus on the bigger problem of private property, and how there shouldn't be Catholic colleges but instead state run colleges because all property is to be owned by the state, I'm with you there. But within the confines of the capitalist system, the "establishment" is well within their rights in having you not engage in a contradictory form of worship on their property.

Wow, the ubersocialist defending Catholics. Hooda thunk it?

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

------------------
Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"
 

------------------
"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"
- Faithless / Reverence

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What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.
-paraphrased, author unknown-
 

[This message has been edited by Elim Garak (edited February 01, 2000).]
 

"Now you see what i'm on about! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Come ans see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm bein' repressed!"

Now you know. They lie. They ALL lie. When those types speak of 'freedom of religion,' what they really mean is 'freedom to be some form of Christian.'

Jubilee and her friends did NOT 'ask for it.' Saying so is equivalent to saying a woman was 'asking for it' if she was walking down the street in a halter top and got attacked by some jackass who couldn't control his testosterone. It's utter crap, and should not be tolerated. These people claim to be tolerant, but they lie. End of story.

------------------
Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

You don't go to a Mosque and expect a reading of Genesis. Nor do you go to the local 'Seventh Day Adventist' Bible school to learn about Buddha.

Religious facilities, like it or not, almost exclusively focus on their religion. It's almost a no-brainer. Catholic School = Catholic Religion. Duh.

I suppose they reason they put their 'acceptance' of other religions (or cults) in their charter, or whatnot is so that they seem not a biased as they obviously will be.

------------------
I bet when Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would
always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

-Jack Handey

Not everyone gets their choice about where to live or go to school.

And it shouldn't matter. If it states in their anti-discrimination policy that thye don't discriminate, then that's it. They don't.

------------------
"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"
 

------------------
Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"
 

They were wrong, she is right (but I would have gotten a bit more belligerent about it ).

1^st of 2: Damn, but I wish I could email you! You hit the nail on the head. If they say they will tolerate other religions on their campus, then that's how they must implement their policy.

Who is better qualified to determine if a symbol stamped in the snow is a Wiccan religious symbol; a campus thu... er, cop? Or the Wiccan who did the stamping?

I'd hate to see someone tell me that some thing I did in the name of my beliefs was evil and intended to cause harm. It would become a self-fulfilling prophecy, I guarantee it!

--Baloo

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
Come Hither and Yawn...

[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited February 02, 2000).]
 

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited February 03, 2000).]
 

Well, maybe not their pants off. Just get enough to pay your entire tuition to any school in the country, plus transportation costs, plus room and board. And about $25,000 extra, just for your trouble. That way, you can get your choice about where you live and go to school. UCSC, maybe (just to throw out a random school)? But I don't know why you'd want to go there...

Ohh, First's addy! Gotta save that. *WEG*

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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

Ultra, you and me are too much alike. If you bought the Ramones anthology today, I'll be scared :-)

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

Wow! Now I have it, I'm afraid to use it. I might succumb to the temptation to forward every silly website I stumble across.

Don't worry, I'll restrain myself. Now where did I put those chains?

------------------
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
Come Hither and Yawn...

------------------
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
--Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
Come Hither and Yawn...

You see, most of these universities put policies like that in writing, and that is essentially a binding legal contract with all the attendees.

*Points out _someone's_ prior asertion that breaking the law is a BAD thing...*

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

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Frank's Home Page
John Linnell: "This song is called...it's called..."
Audience: "Louisiana! Montana!"
John Linnell: Don't tell me what it's called..."
 

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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

------------------
"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"
 

------------------
I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Okay, thought about it.

*goes right out and draws another one in the snow, BIGGER, this time, and with the runic "futhark" alphabet thrown in for good measure*

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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

First: You "athiests" have always left me laughing. I'm not refering to true athiests, but people like you who have the "guts' to reject organize religion, but immediately flock to these other, equally stupid religions (and yes, Eddie Vedder does fall into this category). People like you make a mockery of real athiests. The goddess is just as much of a joke as the Christian god, and I am surprised anyone with the nerve to call themselves an athiest (although I'm not sure if you do or not) would do such a thing. Why don't you go and say some Hail Marys while you're at it? Or kneel towards Mecca and pray? They are all equally stupid. Otherwise, you're just picking on monothiests. So knock it off, or I'll call a jihad down on your ass.

And if you don't actually claim to be an athiest and are just one of those nuts who buy into polythiestic religions, ignore most of that. I'll just think of you as a polythiest dork instead :-)

Quoth Trent Reznor, god is dead and no one cares. And yeah, the Vikings suck too. (not the football team, Randy Moss is awesome)

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

------------------
I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

Necromancer: What the hell was that? "You don't have a brain."? Expand on that or something, because otherwise you're nothing more than a troll. You could at least present a reason before you shit verbal diarrhea out your mouth.

------------------
I bet when Neanderthal kids would make a snowman, someone would
always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

-Jack Handey

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited February 04, 2000).]
 

People can do something they don't believe in to make a point. I'll probably buy a gun when I'm legally old enough, just so I can make the point of the fact that I _can_ own one, and nobody's going to stop me. I would have no intention of ever using it. It would simply be a symbol of the fact that I have the right to own a gun. Just like Jubes' drawing another pentagram would be a symbol of her legal right to practice her religion.

------------------
You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

But the athiest thing is a pet peeve of mine, both from when I was religious and when I lost faith.

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

------------------
You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

Some of his protests have been pretty fucked. I remember his St Patrick's Day protest, honouring pagans. Yeah, there was human people. The first born song of celtic kings had to be sacrificed to the gods. That's one of the reason the princes were so open to Christianity, it meant someone else died for them, they didn't have to (yeah, there's true faith). The pagans were as unbelievably fucked as Christians. Honouring one as a protest of the other is beyond foolish. I'm a great opponent of Josef Stalin. Does that mean I should walk around with a swastika on my arm? Everyone is familiar with my hatred for the Catholic Church. Yeah, time to join up with the RUC!
Lenin taught us that we must constantly fight against those forces which are not revolutionary.
If First is a true athiest, he'd find paganism and wicca to be worthy of his unbridled contempt. Borrowing Zack's phrase, a "rotten sore on the face of mother Earth."
I will fight against these foolish mystical religions with every ounce of strength I have, because they're just as wrong as christianity. Believing in these voodoo, hocus-pocus superstitions are detrimental to the pursuit of truth.
Anyway, I need to go pray to Allah. Shalom.

------------------
"Don't have a mind" - Kurt Cobain
Breed, Nirvana

 

1. I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, an Atheist. I am a Deist, not that it matters, although that's as close as you can get to being an Atheist while still believing in SOMETHING.

2. Expressing a semipreference for murdering Druids over murdering Christians is simply "celebrating my heritage," as those people who claim to favor diversity would have it. At least the Druids only practiced murder on a small scale, while Christianity could do it for you wholesale.

3. Of COURSE I don't subscribe to Wicca. Apparently you aren't aware that the pentagram and the runic alphabet are NOT solely wiccan attributes, but I'd expect that. Most people aren't. (F'r Instance, the rather Christian Amish paint pentagrams on their barns as a ward against evil). Besides, the "running out to draw another" is not a statement of belief in religion so much as a statement of belief in the same freedoms that you so vigorously defend in the "John Rocker" thread. Don't you think there's ever been a "Gentleman's Agreement" against non-christians? I do.

It's an interesting double-standard corner we're each painting ourselves into, me painting myself into the opposite corner by upholding free speech here, while opposing you in the other direction in the Rocker thread. Fascinating, isn't it?

Come to think of it, the only difference I see is that Jubilee's statements are far more benign than Rocker's, so maybe I should relax on Rocker a bit.

------------------
Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson

Perhaps before you unreasonably condemn my religion, you should remove it and go do some research..... as it is quite plain from your statemernts that you have no clue.

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"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"
 

As for my view on the wiccan religion i fully support it thought i do not belong to it. I find it quite fascinating

As for me my beliefs are based on science, my ethics, and the theories of the chaos phenomenom.

Sure i believe in a god, but not in the way christians do.

I take into consideration freedom of thought. Now i wish more religions would take that into consideration and not force thier members to believe blindly.
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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

[This message has been edited by Necromancer (edited February 05, 2000).]
 

------------------
Lisa: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
Bart: "Not if you called them 'stench blossoms'..."
-The Simpsons
 

This idea is the difference between a religion and a cult.

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What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.
-paraphrased, author unknown-
 

Ohh, let me write that down! Sums my views on a lot of things up quite neatly.

------------------
You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

quote:

---

E. Beatrice Hall once wrote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

---

Hmm. I prefer how Voltaire said it. ("I don't share your opinion, but I'll defend to the death your right to express it.")
 

------------------
"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

 

This on the other hand...

"I'll probably buy a gun when I'm legally old enough, just so I can make the point of the fact that I _can_ own one, and nobody's going to stop me. I would have no intention of ever using it. It would simply be a symbol of the fact that I have the right to own a gun."

If there's ever a reason to buy something that allows you to kill without even standing up, then that's it. Twat.

And just to go back to the original argument, Dt does kinda have a point. I owuldn't have shouted it from the rooftops liek that though. Yeah, the school was wrong, and illegal for doing that. But still, you can go for the quiet life can't you? If Catholic schools in theUS are anything like you lot paint them, then you'd have to be mad to express any sort of non-atholic opinion there. I'd keep my mouth shut.

Oh, and remember that this isn't a school. It's a college. Jubes chose to go there. Now, maybe they were the only ones that did her course, but if it was a Satanic school that practiced daily limb-removal-with-a-rusty-chainsaw, then it wouldn't matter if they had the highest pass rate in the country, I wouldn't go there. Even if they did promise that they understood people who liked their limbs.

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"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

Huh?

~LOA

------------------
"Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again....." ~Simon & Garfunkle, The Sound of Silence

 

------------------
Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

And despite what she thinks, LOA is visually stimulating. If we weren't completely incompatible...
Well, no. Not that, either.
What was I talking about?

Oh, yeah.
Is being blatantly non-Christian in a Catholic college going to make you popular? No
Will it get you looked at strangely? Yes.
Will you be subjected to discriminatory treatment, regardless of the written, legal policy? Probably.
Could you just 'go with the flow'? Sure.
It that the safe thing to do? Yep.

Is it honest? No.

"This above all else... to thine own self be true. And thou can not then be false to any man."

If the choice is between wearing a false face and getting along, and being true to yourself and getting trouble... go with truth.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
 

------------------
I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

Bingo. _Especially_ when it's a girl as attractive as Liz. And if Liz doesn't think she's attractive, she should probably know that if I knew her in real life, I probably would have asked her out quite some time ago. And I'm quite picky about women. Or maybe they're picky about me...

Whatever.

*awaits bludgeoning*

As for conformity, I'm such a non-conformist that if everyone actually agreed with me, I'd probably change my mind.

Oh, and my comment on guns: I never said I'd buy any ammo.

And if I did buy ammo, I'd keep the gun in one lock-box, and the ammo in another one. And I'd only buy the gun and ammo AFTER I'd had an extensive safety course. Safe enough for you?

------------------
You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

--Baloo

------------------
"Against stupidity the very gods
Themselves contend in vain."
--FRIEDRICH VON SCHILLER
Come Hither and Yawn...

"I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!"

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
 

*L*

~LOA

------------------
"Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again....." ~Simon & Garfunkle, The Sound of Silence

 

------------------
"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

------------------
Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!!
Gandalf

I shouldn't HAVE to choose somewhere else.

And actually, I didn't really have a choice in colleges.... This was the one that gave me money.

And thanks for the offer, Liam....... Maybe i'll take you up on that.

Anyways, all we got was a tiny thwack on the wrist and a "Don't do that" from the dean of students. I think we actually earned her respect.

------------------
"Permasuck, by Froboz Electric: 'We don't just make things that suck, we make things that suck, PERMANENTLY.'"

 

And, going by statistics, I'd say the latter of your two options is what stops most fights in the US.

------------------
"Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."

Mr Garrison

Also, what exactly does the school's official, written policy state? Does it state that they will ACCEPT as students people of all religions, or that they will respect the right of people of all religions to PRACTICE their religion on campus?

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

 

If you accept people of different religions to attend and reside at a place, how can you NOT expect them to practice their religions there?

I mean, sure, there are "Sunday Christians" (and others) who only 'practice' their religion at church, but with ritual-driven religions (such as wicca and Islam), practice of them is a permanent fixture of life. For instance, a Jew who refuses to eat pork on campus is practicing his religion on campus.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Asbury has the policy you described and it works; in fact, we force students to attend chapel.

Christians also fulfill what they are "commanded" to do just like any other religious people. What we are commanded to do is a little simpler; it is a part of why the practice of Christianity is so appealling.

In fact, I am fulfilling one of a Christian's jobs by posting this message.

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Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.
*First Timothy 3:16*
 

I prefer the right to sleep in. why do you have to go to church anyways it is not like that is the only place to talk to your prefered deity.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

And there are usually services on Sunday nights and Wednsday nights, if you prefer to sleep in the morning.

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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.

 

Ok, it Hebrews 10:24,25. It says to provoke one another to love and good deeds, meet together, and encourage one another until the Second Coming.
------------------
Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.
*First Timothy 3:16*

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 17, 2000).]
 

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited February 17, 2000).]
 

------------------
"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory." -Paul
*First Timothy 3:16*

 

However, to back bryce up a bit, the bible DOES say that we as Christians need to gather together with other believers. So though it doesn't say "Go to church every sunday, even on the Superbowl" it does state pretty clearly that if you're going to live by the Christian doctrine then you shouldn't do it alone and should instead gather with those of like faith to gain support and to build faith....

Anyway.. yeah.. .that's how it is, as far as I know... however, I also haven't slept in days and I'm not thinking coherently... I may edit this in the morning.... TTYL....

~LOA

------------------
No, you CAN'T see my picture!

 

You need to remember too, the "church" didn't exist until some time after the death of Christ. The times the word "church" are mentioned in the gospels are related to the time in which the gospels were written and who they were written to. Going into more detail would require cracking my NT Survey open (and I don't wan t to do that).

By the way, how did we get on this? I just said the word "chapel."
------------------
"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory." -Paul
*First Timothy 3:16*

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 18, 2000).]
 

If i had the choice i would not attend church. I prefer saying i quick payer at home then just heading off for the day.

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

The word "church" originally meant the group of people who met together. It didn't come to mean the building in which they met until they started meeting in buildings other than their own homes. It coincides with Constantine's adoption of Christianity as the state religion of Rome and the conversion of the temples of the Roman dieties into Christain meeting places in 312 AD.

------------------
Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

 

------------------
"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory." -Paul
*First Timothy 3:16*

 

And aren't these people who practice public displays of prayer on street corners (or in modern times, around flagpoles and such) referred to by JC as Hypocrates, and he says specificly NOT to do as they do?

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

I'm always leery of people who make an ostentatious display of how religious they are. Many are just doing as they were taught (though it's still destructive, in my opinion), but some truly believe they are better than you and believe that you must follow their example to get into heaven. Watch out for those, just like you'd watch out for a dangerous animal. Whether they know it or not, they try to use God's authority to convince you to be their slave, though I'm certain that few of them, if any, would put it that way.

--Baloo

------------------
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

(reads it)

Gee, judging from my experience, that must be one of the least-read chapters in the Bible.

------------------
"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Praying in public is bad if you want rewards (and that must be in a society controlled by your faith) {as in the historical context of the passage}. Praying and being seen is ok if you are trying to be a witness for Christ. (SYATP, ect.)

Jews of the day would go to public places at the set times (Jews would pray at certain times in the day back then) and would be seen; they were trying to gain friends, position, power, ect. We should pray to God to communicate to Him and not to pervert the prayer by using it for over means. Where we pray doesn't matter.

------------------
"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated in spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory." -Paul
*First Timothy 3:16*

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 18, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 18, 2000).]
 

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

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"You say don't fear your dreams, it's easier than it seems.
You say you'd never let me fall, from hopes so high.
But never is a promise, and you can't afford to lie." - Fiona Apple

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"I'd give anything to be able to turn invisible. I wouldn't use my powers to beat people up, but use them to protect the girl's locker room."

Xander Harris

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I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.

The Military is very paranoid about fire safety, and, having lived in the dorms for more than half of my career and having spent many a week playing "House Mother" (Charge of Quarters or "CQ") I can see where they got that attitude. Young people away from parental supervision for the first time in their lives can sometimes get carried away when the objective is "having fun". They (not all of them all of the time, of course) can get so focussed on having fun that they do some astoundingly idiotic things in the name of entertainment, like stacking 3 mattresses on the ground and jumping off the 3d floor to land on them or making potato cannons and firing a barrage of spuds at passing traffic, to name a few. Quite often the persons responsible, once the heat of the moment has passed, ask themselves "just what the heck did we think we were doing?" If you think an adult is being unreasonable when issuing silly rules like who can have matches and when, remember that even when they are being unreasonable, they are probably basing their decision on some really stupid thing they or someone they knew did at one time or another, in an effort to prevent a repeat of past history.

Remember, they were young once, and subject to fits of temporary insanity, too.

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...

I wouldn't be surprised if that tragic Seton Hill blaze had a similar cause.

It's very odd, though, how buildings that seem to be mostly concrete and cinder block can catch fire so easily...

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Such has been the cause of some blazes at my present uni.

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"No way man!
I've served my time in hell, and I ain't going back...
Not without a fight!"

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"I'd give anything to be able to turn invisible. I wouldn't use my powers to beat people up, but use them to protect the girl's locker room."

Xander Harris

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-- William Pitt
Come Hither and Yawn...