Seriously, folks, I'd rather see him trying to get a new amendment passed to achieve his goals rather than just passing laws that may or may not be constitutional. It's more honest to say "I don't think anyone ought to have guns except the police, the military, and federal agents."
In the same article, it says: "A counter-rally by the Second Amendment Sisters, who oppose further gun restrictions, was planned throughout the day, also near the mall." So, where's the coverage on that event? Even if you're opposed to second amendment rights, you ought to be interested in what the opposition has to say. Unless, of course, you are only interested in getting your way by any means, rather than working with others to resolve your differences in a civilized manner.
--Baloo
P.S.: This is less about guns than it is about the partisan behavior of the media and how it chooses to tell us only what it wants us to hear.
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"When you�re a geek . . .
You�re a geek all the way,
From your first sci-fi con
To your last dying day."
-- James Lileks
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/
As for the media, ICK! I don't know why they're so interested in advancing liberal policies that ignore your constitutional rights. Once private property, freedom of speech, and the fourth, ninth, tenth, and second ammendments are gone, what do you think will be next? Freedom of the press, of course.
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
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"Hello and welcome to 'Whose Line Is It Anyway?' The show where everything's made up and the points don't matter - just like a condom to a Trekkie." - Drew Carey, Whose Line Is It Anyway?
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Frank's Home Page
John Flansburgh: "This song is so old that it's actually featured on our brand new record."
John Linnell: "It's one of those year 2000 problems."
*deep breath*
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
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"Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?"
--
M. Doughty
Two-party politics on a triple-tier system invariably means no changes can be made unless everybody holding a placard for on against something has been appeased first. In Canada, we have five-party politics or what is pretty much a single tier. Maybe not as "democratic" as Americans believe their system to be, but at least a handful of backwater tumbleweeds haven't stopped us from placing "freedom from fear" above "freedom to bear arms."
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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited May 14, 2000).]
But what caused my spurt of laughter was the constitutionally demanded goal of militias to defend our freedom. While you can certainly read the 2nd amendment as saying that everyone should have weapons in their home, you cannot draw any connection between the modern militia movement and the "well regulated militia" mentioned in the document.
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"Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?"
--
M. Doughty
Go searching for poll numbers. Also, I'll bet you'll find a difference between the polls in Texas and Vermont, for example.
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Frank's Home Page
John Flansburgh: "This song is so old that it's actually featured on our brand new record."
John Linnell: "It's one of those year 2000 problems."
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"Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
--Baloo
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"When you�re a geek . . .
You�re a geek all the way,
From your first sci-fi con
To your last dying day."
-- James Lileks
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/
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Frank's Home Page
John Flansburgh: "This song is so old that it's actually featured on our brand new record."
John Linnell: "It's one of those year 2000 problems."
[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited May 14, 2000).]
"A significant majority (don't make me go searching for poll numbers) want more restrictions, and yet there have been none. Why?"
Simply put that "significant majority" of the US doesn't believe that more restrictions on guns is a major voting issue, while the "handful of backwater tumbleweeds" in the US actually do think this is an important issue and they vote that way. Why do you think the NRA is the most powerful special interest group, (for it's size, sure the AARP has more power but they have 10's of millions of members, the NRA has 3 million) because there membership (AKA backwater tumbleweeds)thinks that gun rights are important and they vote that way in an extremely high percentage.
So exactly how is this minority of "backwater tumbleweeds" voting on things they believe is important make them bad guys, compared to the "significant majority" not voting on things they believe is important some some how make them good. If the "significant majority" cared enough about the issue they should go to the voting both and cast ballots for the those canidates who support gun control, and if they don't they should shut the h*ll up.
*Note the preceding message is not an attack on any forum member here, but is an attack against people bitching about how government is run, not voting to actually make there opinions heard and then bitching more because no one is listening.*
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Somehow you were linked to this page, which doesn't really exist. Well, this one does, but the one you were trying to get to doesn't. Actually, that's not really true either, because it probably does, but either you mistyped it or our webmaster is asleep at the wheel. If the later is the case (you were linked here from a page within **********.net) then please let us know.
If you were linked here from an external site, which is most often the case, it would be nice of you to let them know.
*hopes Fo2 will show up with his scads of info to back him up*
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
The problem with the multi-tiered American democratic system is that a majority of Americans might want lower taxes and therefore elect a predominantly Republican Congress. In that very same election, a majority of Americans might also elect a Democrat president who fights for gun control. Unfortunately, that gun control can never be realized so long as the Congress will vote partisanly in accordance to the Republican Party's policy of backing prio-gun special-interest groups.
The problem with the United States is that issues of citizens rights are tied into political ideology too deeply, and that inhibits change.
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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
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Frank's Home Page
"We can't really say we feel comfortable in Los Angeles, because we don't." - John Flansburgh
From Gallup.
Survey performed April 28-30, 2000:
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"Do you think all owners of pistols and revolvers should be required to register with the government?"
Favor: 76%
Oppose: 22%
No Opinion: 2%
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"In addition to registering handguns, would you favor or oppose the federal government requiring all handgun owners to obtain a special license in order to own handguns?"
Favor: 69%
Oppose: 29%
No Opinion: 2%
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"Would you favor or oppose a law limiting the number of guns an individual can purchase to one per month?"
Favor: 58%
Oppose: 40%
No Opinion: 2%
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"Would you favor or oppose a law requiring that all guns sold in the United States be equipped with built-in trigger locks?"
Favor: 79%
Oppose: 19%
No Opinion: 2%
From a survey performed May 5-7, 2000:
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"In general, do you feel that the laws covering the sale of firearms should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"
More Strict: 62% (Men 52%, Women 72%)
Less Strict: 5% (Men 8%, Women 2%)
Kept as now: 31% (Men 39%, Women 24%)
No Opinion: 2% (Men 1%, Women 2%)
The page of stats goes on to explain how this meshes with voting preferences, and the basic conclusion seems to be that ultimately attitude towards gun control is not one of the top priorities American voters look for in their elected officials.
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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
Well, maybe most people don't think it's that important, then.
The first two questions seem to indicate that 25% of the population do not want further gun control. That's about 68 million people (for comparison, Texas has 17.5 million people). I think state-based information would be more pertinent in this case.
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Frank's Home Page
"We can't really say we feel comfortable in Los Angeles, because we don't." - John Flansburgh
Gah!
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Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns
And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
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Frank's Home Page
"We can't really say we feel comfortable in Los Angeles, because we don't." - John Flansburgh
quote:
it's not hard to become a mother these days...
???
Trust me Frank. For approximately 50% of the population, it's impossible to become a mother (however, being a mother is another issue altogether ).
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"When you�re a geek . . .
You�re a geek all the way,
From your first sci-fi con
To your last dying day."
-- James Lileks
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited May 15, 2000).]
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Frank's Home Page
"We can't really say we feel comfortable in Los Angeles, because we don't." - John Flansburgh
Again, I'd like to see a law that WOULD help it.
It's really quite simple: I MIGHT go along with confiscation of all guns under one circumstance. That is if you can gaurentee me that when you confiscate the guns of all law-abiding citizins that have no intention of using their firearms in a crime, you will also confiscate ALL guns belonging to those that DO intend to commit a crime with them. Can you guarentee me that?
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited May 16, 2000).]
There's a link to a more recent one on that page.
I remind you that this is by Time magazine, the people who made FDR "Man of the Century" because he "taught people to love the government", so no accusations of a conservative slant, please.
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933
FDR was in the running, and there was an article about him in the same issue. Oddly enough, your alleged quote appears nowhere in it, nor does it appear in the guest commentary written by Bill Clinton (!). Sorry. As for the liberal bias of Time, I'll believe it when they stop proclaiming that Reagan saved America.
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"Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?"
--
M. Doughty
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"Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
First, I would like to state my opinion, obtained as a result of education in the many philosophy and logic courses I took in college, that polls are worth only slightly less than the paper they are printed on. A clever pollster can slant questions, or the sample, or use a certain climate, to create virtually any result desired.
Also, the results of this poll do not take into account most Americans' startling ignorance (well, not SO startling, they were probably watching 'Friends' when the specials came on) of what 20,000 or so gun laws are already in place, or the enforcement rates / effectiveness (lack thereof) of the same.
Every shooting that occurs now, every time a gun goes off in a non-legal manner, even when nobody is HIT, violates an average of 20 laws, some of which aren't even connected to guns. For instance: Discharging a weapon within city limits, violating noise ordinances, discharging a weapon in the commission of a crime, etc. etc. Most people who do the criminal shooting aren't legally in posession of the weapon in the FIRST place, so explain to me how it matters? (I suppose it would help in framing someone, though, steal their gun, use it, and leave it behind to be found by the cops who can then immediately trace it back to the owner)
And as for the suggestion that US'ers (I'm trying to stop using 'Americans' since it confuses some of our less-brilliant members) are paranoid because they simultaneously proclaim their country the 'greatest' AND complain that their freedoms are being chipped away at by others... there is an old quote that "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance," and it is at least as true today as it ever was. And if you DON'T believe that there are folks out there, both here and abroad, who would be perfectly happy to have you under their thumb, believing only what they tell you to, doing only what they want you to, having only what rights and thoughts that THEY want you to... then, my friend, that makes YOU the delusional one.
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
-- Adolph Hitler, 1933
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"Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
Admittedly, the one persecuted minority group I belong to, (non-Christian in a high-Fundie area) and the few I support, aren't CURRENTLY in danger of annihilation, but that's no reason to let up on being vigilant. (In fact, the argument can easily be made that the vigilance itself is a major factor in survival.) If any given thing has happened in the past, then it is possible for that given thing to occur again in the future, under the right conditions.
There are sheep out there who will do anything they're told.
There are leaders of dubious scruples vying for power.
There are people who wouldn't think twice about wiping you off the surface of the earth if they thought that's what their God wanted.
It's not just the random scumbag you need to worry about, it's ORGANIZED villiany.
"Oh, but that can't happen here!"
Yes it can. It's been close more than once.
William Jennings Bryan
Joe McCarthy
Pat Robertson
I won't say Clinton yet, but sometimes it sure looks like it.
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi