As of 40 minutes ago, Sweden voted "No" on membership for the EMU, with 56% vs. 42% for the "Yes"-side. I consider it a step backwards, I fear the consequences this will have on the Denmark- and UK-vote.
The average swede, living outside of the big cities, is low on confidence for the politicians in Stockholm and especially in Brussels and don't care much for being "part" of the rest of Europe. Stockholm and Malm� were the only cities to have a dominant yes-vote, yet still made out 40%, make of that what you will. In any case, the participation rate was 80% overall, which while not as high as the EU-membership vote of 1994 is still higher than any other election in our time. Yay, I guess.
Too bad that so many people here still mistrust the EU concept and mistakenly think that our Krona will hold its own against the Dollar and Euro for an extended time, it already being rather weak in comparison.
Now we'll have to wait 5, maybe 10 years, depending on how much the Greens and the Centrists can stall it, until we get another vote. By then, up to ten other countries may have already voted yes on EMU and will set better examples than us.
Add to that, our foreign minister is dead, our outward face to the world, her successor is a controversial old piece of work that won't get into shouting distance of her bargaining-power and motivation.
I picked the wrong year to finally get interested in domestic politics...
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
At least you got to have a referendum. Here we never have them, just endless promises and debate as to whether we should have one at all ever. Now Blair is saying he's going to start working towards membership of the Euro - but he's left it too long, procrastinating. He's now in no position to do anything about it, he wasted his early years in office when he had the honeymoon effect to make such things possible. No Euro, no ban on fox hunting. . . just bullshit.
And now Gordon Brown the Chancellor of the Exchequer has spent too much time with his feet under the table, content to have personal control of one of the world's strongest currencies (and economies); he's lost sight of what's best for the country as a whole. He'll use any attempt Blair makes to introduce the Euro, half-assed though that attempt may be, to launch his challenge for the Labour leadership.
Who was it asking why we want to move to New Zealand? 8)
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Guy Fawkes 2003.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: And now Gordon Brown the Chancellor of the Exchequer has spent too much time with his feet under the table, content to have personal control of one of the world's strongest currencies (and economies); he's lost sight of what's best for the country as a whole. He'll use any attempt Blair makes to introduce the Euro, half-assed though that attempt may be, to launch his challenge for the Labour leadership.
Who was it asking why we want to move to New Zealand? 8)
Well, to be fair, the Euro did fail four out of the five economic tests. And perhaps it will be a good idea to wait and see; the Growth and Stability pact is already falling apart (France is saying it will have to break it, Germany already is). The main problem is setting one interest rate for the entire Euro zone; it's impossible to get one that will work well for all the economies. Finally, of course, you have the problem that the Euro is seen by most in the EU apparatus as the first step to the Grand Unified European Superstate, which is not exactly viewed as desireable by many. If you think interest rates are hard to set, wait till you get to foreign policy!!!
And as for New Labour, well, they've actually turned out to be rather crap over all, haven't they? Botched reforms of the Lords and legal system, public services disintegrating, with the only apparent response of the govt to set new restrictive and often unsuitable targets. Add to that the Dear Leaders refusal to have a referendum on the EU Constitution and the seemingly incessant hagglings over the Euro.
It's enough to make you nostalgic for the Conservatives....
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Almost. But the failing of the five tests was hardly surprising given it was Brown who set the tests. "Now, let's see. . . Can the Euro leap tall buildings with a single bound? Noo. . . Next!"
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
lol; actually the tests were relatively sensible. For this government at least. Y'know, if they renamed the Euro the pound we'd probably have joined in about 5 seconds.
One thing about the Euro coins though; they've deleted Norway from Scandinavia, which has a a very disturbing effect on the shape of that area Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
One EU interest rate = Never Gonna Happen.
I'm not too keen on the Euro myself, it has made life considerably more expensive while not providing much benefit in return. Maybe if (IF) France and Italy patched their fucking corrupt economies and adhered to the damn stability pact instead of shoving their financial mismanagement down the smaller states' throats, the Euro could actually be competitive with the dollar (which it hasn't been for the last, oh, DECADE, and certainly isn't going to be anywhere in the foreseeable future now that another dozen Eastern European anchors are dragging along the bottom of the monetary ocean) and the Grand Unification Theory wouldn't read so much like bad fiction.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
WHOO HOO!! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!
Now if we can just get rid of our president and find anyone worth voting for....
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I was never pro-Euro beforehand, but I have come to appreciate the advantages. And most of the prices here are not higher than before they introduced the new currency - with a few prominent exceptions. On the whole I think it is not so bad that our "beloved" D-Mark has gone.
Oh and about the Euro being competitive with the Dollar - at the moment it's the Dollar that is under pressure, or hadn't you noticed?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I'm off to Prague in November, it'll be strange to go somewhere in Europe that doesn't have the Euro.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The Euro has been stronger than the dollar for about three years, IIRC. I too appreciate the benefits nowadays. But unless I move into Timo's closet... *shrugs*
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
@Lee: And to think that the Czechs will join the EMU before Sweden... Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Lee: I went to Prague a couple of years ago; it's a really nice city. Providing you avoid the British tourists.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So Lee has to avoid himself? That will be difficult, seeing as he's a chubby chub chub.
Not a chubby chubby chub chub, like Tim, but still close behind.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh man, euros! I wish I could get my hands on a few.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I could send you some, you know. . .
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I could, too. But my closet is currently full. Of things Nim doesn't want to meet.
So, what sort of artwork should have gone with Swedish Euro coins? ABBA in the twofer, Bj�rn Borg in the 1�, kn�ckebr�d or dalah�st in the cents? It seems the artists got their deadline pushed back a bit.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Had we gotten a "Yes", they would've put Anna Lindh on the coin...
Ever since the 80's she's been slated as our first female prime minister to-be. She would've succeeded G�ran Persson, though she herself never talked about it. She walked in Olof Palme's footsteps, taking the same interest in international events and, in particular, human rights violations.
So in a way, we were robbed of our future, as the temporary successor to Lindh said.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Yes!
Though, let us wait and see what my address will be in a week.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Hm.
[ September 17, 2003, 02:17 AM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
So I can send him Euros. Unfortunately I spent all my Greek Euro coins in Italy, so all I have at the moment are Italian Euros. If you like I'll try to assemble a selection of Czech coins as well, although you'll have to wait a coupla months for those. 8)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I dream of wandering around Yakima waving a fistful of euros in the faces of innocent merchants and accusing them of not taking real currency. There's a friend of my family who travels a lot, and has a fancy collector's booklet filled with all the euro coins available at the time, but I want to weigh down my pockets with them, rattle them together as I walk, listening to Kraftwerk and thumbing through a dogeared copy of Nausea.
I also wonder what secret messages Nim was transmitting.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Hypothetical situation: I am given a person shifting machine, and I can become anybody in the world.
I make a list of people to be. Maybe not first, or second, or third, or even in the top ten, or twenty, or maybe even thirty or forty, but Simon Sizer is on that list, somewhere.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Fallen 2: Dangling Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)