That's what we've had. It was good at the start with fresh new ideas, new aliens, new everything but towards the end, especially in Voyager, they're just rehashing old ideas. Take an old idea, change it a bit and hey presto, A NEW EPISODE! The idea of a causality loop in Coda was ripped off from Cause and Effect, Harry's endless failures in love is just Geordi LaForge all over again, etc etc.
I think they need a break for a couple of years. *clap of thunder* Yes, it may be blasphemy, but it needs to be done. Voyager has had its moments, but it's been nowhere near as good as TNG and DS9. It's been getting worse and it'll carry on getting worse as long as they carry on like this.
The writers need to take a year or two, come up with a completely original idea, write some good stories for it and then develop it as the series progresses. It's no good just rehashing old stuff because it gets boring. Even I've sat through Voyager episodes and yawned through them, which is something I never did before.
We need some new ideas, and I don't mean Star Trek: Excellent or anything like that. If they did that, the first thing coming to anyone's minds will be Bill & Ted - do we REALLY want that? Although it'll be a difficult wait for some, it'll be a chance to step back from all this trek we've had over the last 13 years and then build up to the next one, not just take it for granted. This'll all make for a better series in the end.
------------------ Democracy simply means the bludgeoning of the people, by the people and for the people.
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
Yes, it is fact that Voyager is the weakest show on TV.
And oh yes, no characters may be remotely similar. We can't have two characters who have a bad history with women, for example.
And how many people honestly think that they look at past TNG and DS9 episodes to get ideas...? IMO, it's just that ideas that cannot be compared to some that came before them are hard to work into Star Trek, with a budget and history and stuff.
I agree that Star Trek could stand a couple-year break, but sometimes I find the... reasons... rather odd.
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
I have not seen the new series of voyager in the uk but is it true that the series is getting a bit stale?
------------------ "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
*wandes in wearing shades and a tux, carrying a bazooka*
Excuse me gentlemen, but I'm an a mission to destroy all Voyager-bashers...
*empties bazooka at thread*
------------------ "You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION" - Faithless / Reverence
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
On this I have to agree with Monty. Maybe Voyager is getting a tad stale. I won't pretend to be a drama critic though. To me, though, fiction and especially Star Trek is not limited to what we see on screen. What the writer's don't write, we can create in our own imaginations. Voyager is as good as WE make it, not as good as they make it...
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Season six has been the best, with only two eps I didn't like very much, minus a couple I haven't seen. I have said before that there needs to be a break between Voyager and the next series, and even after going through withdrawals from losing Voyager, I still have to agree. Five years between Voyager and the next series.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :
I also believe that Star Trek needs a little break. Though I'm not sure that I COULD STAND IT! And Please quite bashing Voyager. Season 5 Did have quite a few bad episdoes, but I think Season 6 has been excellent!
Oh, uh, just for the record, a lot of my post was intended to be sarcastic. Although, hopefully, everyone, knowing me and my feeling on the show, should realise that. Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :
Every show has it's weak episodes or seasons, just like Voyager, but Voyager is still a good show. I missed from Equinox Pt. II to Pathfinder, but everything I have seen (excpet maybe for Virtuoso) has been anywhere from good to excellent.
------------------ "You're right. They wouldn't be able to see anything but the top of your head. The glare could blind them." -B'Ellana Torres, Virtuoso
If you had asked me a couple of years ago whether the show needed a break, I would definitely have said no, but I do still think that they need time off to come up with new ideas. It doesn't have to be too long - a year may seem a long time but people did survive after TOS for a lot longer than that.
A new kick ass series is exactly what the franchise needs right now but they can't bring one out in just a couple of months. They need to sit down, do their writing, evaluate it, change if necessary and then begin the casting process. They need time, and although I would miss new Star Trek episodes, I would be willing to make that sacrifice for a fresh new series full of new ideas - one that would get everyone talking.
------------------ Democracy simply means the bludgeoning of the people, by the people and for the people.
Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :
The danger is Trek falling prey to "Dr Who syndrome". Trek may NOT get another chance if there is seen to be not enough momentum to spawn a fifth series.
------------------ "You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION" - Faithless / Reverence
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Orion's got it! IMHO, they need to have the first season solidly planned and ideas going for the second before we see anything on TV! Also need to have an idea where the show will be 3 seasons from whenever it starts. I don't care how unheard of it is in Trek to have a seasons-long intertwining plot: it's satisfying for in depth viewers and it makes for good storytelling.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
I never even saw Babylon 5, but from what I hear, the plot is very good because it's all planned in advance like Gargoyles, another great show, except for that Gargoyles Chronicles atrocity ). They should really do something like that this time. The hell with Viacom wanting to broadcast the ep. out of order. They want us to still watch them? Then why don't they listen to us???
As for Voyager's quality right now, well let me tell you this...
*sees Montgomery's bazooka and his heartless killer expression, and wisely decides to avoid VOY bashing *
... huh, time for a break?
------------------ -If you ask me, I think continuity is highly overrated... *Brannon Braga*
-Let the Fates land where they may! *Megatron - Beast Machines*
Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :
Wise move.
------------------ "You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION" - Faithless / Reverence
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I've never really seen B5 either. And here's the reason: The story seemed so go good and so well done, that I didn't want to start in half way through. I knew I'd never catch up. I want to wait until I can catch it from the get go in synd. or on tapes. I want a Trek series like this! I want ot know I'm getting a thought out story if I'm going to invest time in it!
Of course I'm probably arguing Paramount's point. They don't want people deciding not to watch because they think they'll be lost. Course, if they'd just watch from the beginning...
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
A highly involved continuing storyline can be intimidating to a potential viewer who is not familiar with it. I too have avoided B5 for the same reason. Even DS9's plot threads were a little too complex for some people to just start watching during the last two seasons. I know earlier on in the series a missed a couple seasons (4 and most of 5) and when I starting watching again it seemed very confusing (and convoluted) to me. The cardassians are our enemies and the kilingons are our friends, the klingons are our enemies and the cardassians are our friends, the cardassians are our enemies and the klingons are our friends....
Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :
Individual storylines are fine, but you need these stories which sometimes continue into later episodes because it allows for good character and plot development. Forty-five minutes is a very short space of time to do many meaningful things. The Dominion war only worked because there was this continuing theme right from when they first met the Jem Hadar to the end in WYLB. It made it interesting, especially the Final Chapter arc.
Any new series should be like this also. It gives the actors/actresses time to act without the restraints of the 45 minute show. That doesn't mean that they should do away with the standalone stories. They are part of Trek, but for the sake of character development, they need these longer stories.
------------------ Democracy simply means the bludgeoning of the people, by the people and for the people.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
But, to be practical, who would make this decision? Berman? Can you see him sitting in his office saying "right,Star Trek nees a break for two years. I'm sure Paramount will pay me to come into my office, drink coffee and 'recharge my batteries' for the next couple of years."?
If that happens, I will personally eat CC's beard.
------------------ "Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."
Mr Garrison
[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited February 12, 2000).]
). They should really do something like that this time. The hell with Viacom wanting to broadcast the ep. out of order. They want us to still watch them? Then why don't they listen to us???