Flare Sci-Fi Forums: I just rented ST: Insurrection.

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Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

What the hell are so many people bitching about? I thought 9 was pretty damn good. Some of it's "funny" parts were far more cheesy than funny, but other than that, I thought it came VERY close to breaking the curse of Khan. Unfotunatly for ST:IX, I think First Contact is still just a tad better.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

Well if Joalene Blalock played Anij, the Baku were very sexual people, and Riker and Troi did more than the bathtub scene....wait that's going to drive the PG-13 rating up...

The movie was okay, but needed more violent action scenes or something to that effect. Or the Sona should have been more scary.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Whenever Ru'afo got mad i laughed cuz he looked so ridiculous. So did the rest of the audience every time i saw it. They obviously missed a beat there. (im thinking his final yell and his head popping scene)
I didnt like the zit jokes
I didnt like the boob joke

it became a farce

to make things worse, stunteople flew the wrong way on their wires when FX stuff blew up.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
stunteople

Is that near Istanbul or Constantinople?

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

I think he meant 'stunt people'

As for 9 needing more violence; I honestly do not think so. I don't watch Trek just for the explosions and such. (Even though they are pretty cool.)

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

I didn't like ST 9 much, for me it perpetuated the odd numbered movie curse. Not that it was a bad film, it was adequate for what it was, it was the gist of the story that disappointed me. It was too alike Generations in a way, ie some alien fanatic searches for a type of immortality, screwing over anyone that gets in his way, Picard and co must go to any lengths to stop him, blah blah.....

Yes there were differences and different subplots, but the recylced storylines of our heroes against one crackpot villain just isn't strong or thought provoking enough...

Just my opinion though.

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

And there's also the whole thing about the message of the movie not really adding up.

At the relatively minor expense of a few people (we're not even talking about killing them), enormous benefit could have been brought to trillions upon trillions of sentient beings.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one."

The entire premise of the movie was flawed, and was executed rather poorly.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Apparently, you missed the "message" of the movie.

You also apparently forgot about the Prime Directive. And the "principles" of the Federation. Essentially, the Federation got drawn into an internal conflict.

Which is something the Prime Directive forbids. Remember the Federation's attitude towards the Duras Civil War? Same thing.

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

[move along...]

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: OnToMars ]

Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :

Prime Directive didn't apply. Picard even said so.

And no, I don't remember the Federation's attitude towards the Klingon Civil War. It's been years since I've seen those episodes.

But there have been many instances where the Federation acted as a mediator to resolve the situation, (iirc, Klingon Civil War included). They also did so in ST:I, and successfully I might add. With that taken care of, they could've resumed researching the metagenic affect to everyone's satisfaction.

Chalk it up on Bernd's list of shit that should've changed everything everafter, but was mysteriously never heard of again.

Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :

Did we NEED to see the Admiral's face stretched?

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Sure, why not?

Actually, I think Dougherty said the Prime Directive didn't apply -- once Picard & Co realized the Bak'u and the Son'na were part of the same race, they realized the Prime Directive DID apply. When what's-his-stretch later tried to invoke the Prime Directive to force Enterprise to leave, Picard pointed out that they had to fix the mistake the Federation had gotten itself involved in and did so.

In "Redemption", because the Klingon Civil War was an internal affair, the Federation could not become involved. Picard suspected the Duras sisters were being supported by the Romulans, and once the connection was revealed (it wasn't done so concisevely -- the Romulans withdrew their support rather then face a war against the UFP and Klingons) the Federation would've been able to come to the aid of Gowron. Similar situation -- the Son'a wanted the Federation to help them destroy the Bak'u, whom they viewed as enemies. Forbidden by the Prime Directive due to the relationship between them.

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Am I the only one who picked up on the historical reference here? The Euorpeans took land from god only knows how many Native Ameriacns for their own benifit, not caring about how much THEY need the land and how the relocation would affect them. Are you gonna sit there and say, "Well. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?" Even though that may be true, that still doesn't give ANYONE the right to waltz in and take people's homes and land without their consent. I do believe that that was a big message in the movie. I also think that ST:I was based, at least a little bit, on the Native American relocations. Much in the same way ST:6 was based on the collapse of the Soviet Union and so forth.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Good call, dude.

The classic morality tale: is it okay to violate one's principles to do what will help the many at the cost of the few?

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Overall, I enjoyed Insurrection. I think it was a fairly okay film, but it definitely had its problems. Some of the pacing was off, and the film seemed to struggle with its identity. Was Insurrection primarily an action film or a romantic film? I think the film could have benefitted greatly from balancing the romantic elements of the film better with the action elements. I would have liked to see more of the Anij and Picard angle and the reignition of Riker and Troi's relationship. I especially would have liked to have seen more of Worf's commentary on the matter since he was intimately involved with Troi and had just recently lost Jadzia.

The action elements were fine for the most part. The special effects for the Enterprise's battle with the Son'a ships was rushed and needed fine-tuning. The biggest flaw is that the Enterprise came off as being a pathetic little ship against the Son'a battleships. Definitely needed to show the Enterprise returning more fire and standing her own against the Son'a ships. This was the perfect opportunity to show the Enterprise testing her limits (like we did the original Enterprise in The Wrath of Khan). On that note, the film blew it.

Some of the humor was a bit unnecessary. Data's "floatation device" gag wasn't all that fitting, but I think the "boob," "pimple," and "shaved beard" jokes did work. It was nice seeing an interaction between Troi and Crusher that was nothing more than "girl talk." Worf's pimple served to show that the crew was beginning to experience the age-reversing effects of the radiation. The "shaved beard" joke was a nice touch of comedy that I, for one, appreciated.

The premise of the film was all right, in my opinion. TNG touched on the seizing land issue back in "Journey's End" (the final appearance of Wesley Crusher), but that was a different issue. In that case, the Federation was trying to remove the Native Americans because the planet was being ceded over to the Cardassians. In Insurrection, the Federation was cooperating with a hostile force to help steal the resources of the planet from its inhabitants. This is a more direct allusion to the Europeans seizing the Americas from the natives and the colonists then seizing the land from the European empires. At the time, there was little thought to the objective morality of those events. In the movie, there is time to explore the options and consider what is right to be done. I would have spent a bit more time on that exploration of the issues, though.

As I said at the beginning of my post, Insurrection was enjoyable and entertaining. It did have some problems with pacing and development, and I think those are largely errors in judgement by the producers, director, and writer.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Good call, dude.

Thank you. I try.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

The ormantic aspect of the film bothered me too.. i just didnt feel any chemistry between Picard and Anij. I hate it when the relationships in a movie require more suspension of disbelief the the treknology.

Relationships i have found convincing:
Picard/Beverly
Picard/Neela Daren
Worf/Jadzia
Riker/Troi
Kirk/Edith Keeler

Relationships that seemed to be quite bullshit:
Picard/Anij
Worf/Troi
Riker/Soren the J'naii
Sisko/Kasidy (at first..)
Chakotay/Seven

Just because the script says 'They fall in love' doesnt mean it works onscreen.. especially if it is so poorly thought out as many of Trek's pairings. Ive tried to understand, especially if it adds something to the outlook of the character and furthers the storyline or the ongoing plot that is the characters life, but if its done for formula's sake to a throwaway guest star of the week it really gets tiresome.

So i guess that took away from the movie for me also.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Actually, I think that the pairing of Picard and Anij was believable. My problem with it was that the original romantic elements got toned down a bit. It was this replacing some of the romantic with the action elements that caused the harm to the chemistry trying to be built between Picard and Anij. If they had spent a bit more time and a bit more focus on that angle of the movie, I think it done a lot to help. There was a good amount of intimacy with the interplay between the two, it's a shame that it got wasted.

Posted by Jack_Crusher (Member # 696) on :

I swear to god that the curse of the odd Trek films is true, and ST:9 proves it (ST:3 TSFS doesn't count).

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Why doesn't ST:3 count? That movie was lame. ST: 5, as we all know, was worse.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

Well, if Trek X is the last one to feature the TNG crew then when Archer and his crew hit Star Trek XI...

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I doubt Enterprise will be the subject of the 11th Trek movie. The series won't be over yet (assuming it runs 7 seasons). My guess would be that 11 will feature a combo crew from DS9, Voyager and TNG.

Posted by Kosa (Member # 650) on :

I think Insurrection was a quite all right Star Trek movie. I guess it is seen by most fans as being crap because it does actually hold up the odd numbered curse, in light of the excellent First Contact. IMO opinion, that is.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

Well, first off, if a movie is Star Trek, i automatically like it and will buy it. Star Trek 9 is probably one of my 30 favorite movies, simply because it is Star Trek. I just find it to be disappointing, for the reasons i and everyone else outlined earlier. But i still would rather have watched it than going to see the latest action flick. Unfortunately it was too much like the latest action flick... but i digress.

'The Curse of the Odd-Numbered Movies'.. I have to say, its more of a percieved thing.. I will wwatch the Motion Picture on a regular basis, because it is such a big trippy movie. Star Trek V is still fun for me,i bought it a few months ago. And I've never understood criticisms of ST III.. aside from some budget problems (stuff generally looked 'cheap') it was a damn fine movie. And Generations was a helluva lotta fun for me too. Im just saying that 2, 6, & 8 carry a lot more resonance for me.
And my least favorite (besides 9)...: Star Trek IV.. i like to buck trends

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

What's wrong with Star Trek IV? It was a fun movie...when do you ever hear a Starfleet captain curse...wait that maybe happening on Enterprise...

I'd watch Insurrection again, but I'd just focus on the action scenes, the ships, and the interiors of the Enterprise...when the special DVD version comes out. Is it me, or is it that there were a lot of stuff cut out of each Trek movie that we never really find out until years later?

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

What's wrong with Star Trek IV? It was a fun movie...when do you ever hear a Starfleet captain curse...wait that maybe happening on Enterprise...

Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :

IMO Insurrection is the worst Star Trek movie since The Final Frontier. After First Contact I expected so much, but when I first saw Insurrection in the cinemas I was horribly dissapointed. Maybe I expected too much. Unfortunately, every subsequent viewing gives me the same feeling of dismay. Recently I even watched it again on DVD - I couldn't help but think "this SUX" and I turned it off half way through. At least I can be hopeful that the next movie (an even number) is destined for greatness.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Actually, I'd put Insurrection in the same catagory as ST V. Plot with holes big enough to fly the Enterprise through, and a general feeling of "I waited three years for this?", but overall, still fun, and hardly the worst way to spend a couple of hours.

I also really like ST III. The Enterprise's destruction was beautiful, and thre was some nice stuff for the cast (Kirk especially rarely shines more than he does in ST II and III, except maybe parts of VI).

You want to a substitute for slow brain death though? All of Star Trek: TMP (especially after they actally get on board the Enterprise. I'd rather be beaten with a pillow than watch that again).