Has anyone ever noticed Tuvok's console always exploding or him being near death? It seems the only able Vulcans are white . Take Spock every ep he was mind melding or commanding the bridge. This is a homage to the actor of course. It was Nimoy who came of with the Vulcan attitude. He created the Vulcan nerve pinch and the famous Vulcan saying. Set up great story possibilities for Tuvok and producers took them for granted.
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Dr Phlox ]
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Um... Is it just me or did T'Pol only get decontaminated once? And it seems to me that T'Pol does come in handy every now and then.
Now, speaking of Vulcan attitude, I have an idea about this. T'Pol is the first Vulcan to have worked extensively with a human crew on a starship. She probably acts the way most Vulcans would act, but by the time Spock was on the Enterprise, Vulcans had learned how to adapt to humans and got along a little better with them.
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
I'm saying in one of the scripts it called for Spock to scream, Nimoy suggested he stare blankly and say "Interesting."
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Please don't go editting out parts of your messages when people have already responded to those parts. It confusing and, to be honest, a bit rude.
It's easy to say that the only able Vulcans were white when you stop and consider that we've only seen white Vulcans until Voyager. And Tuvok did his job as tactical officer well. He defended his ship. We also know he would still be an outstanding officer even if he were blind and on a crippled ship. Tim Russ did a fairly good job of playing a Vulcan. Don't knock him because the writers tended to overlook him on occasion. Plus, he wasn't "always" near death or "always" having his console explode.
$$$ Spoilers for Enterprise Below $$$
Chris and I have discussed this before over ICQ, and I fully agree with him. T'Pol is the first Vulcan to have to work extensively with humans. She isn't happy about it; that point was made in the pilot. But she is softening up a good bit as she continues to work with the crew. She's becoming more trusting of Captain Archer ("Strange New World," "The Andorian Incident" among others) and even seems to be developing a confidant relationship with Tucker ("Breaking the Ice"). She has her own ideas about how things should be done, and she is more than happy to share his opinions and concerns whenever the human crew is acting "too emotionally." However, she has never stopped them from acting. She does have a chip on her shoulder, but I think that is because she sees herself right now as supervising a bunch of kids. In a way, she is right. The humans are basically wide-eyed-with-wonder kids exploring beyond previous limits.
Also, T'Pol is a fantastic science officer and frequently commands the bridge. She is fairly close to Spock's character in that regard. Her difference is that the Vulcans and humans aren't exactly on the best of terms at the moment, plus she doesn't have to wrestle with her emotions. She has to deal the humans' emotions, instead.
{Editted for Spoilers and Addendum. Whoops.}
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think Siegfried's right on. You can't just say "Vulcan attitude" like it's going to apply to every Vulcan over decades of time. If we saw Tuvok and T'Pol acting just like Spock, we'd be calling the writers and producers unoriginal.
I would argue that every Vulcan has his own personality just like Humans. Tuvok has different experiences and attitudes than Spock did. As was pointed out, Spock had to deal with being half Human.
I think the writers have done a good job of taking an emotionless species and giving each of the leads from this species their own twist on things. You have to or, Vulcan or not, the characters won't be interesting.
P.S. Dr. Phlox, I don't think you got that first quote from The West Wing quite right.
[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
I'm not dissing Tim Russ's portrayal of Tuvok I'm saying writers and producers had great ground work down for Tuvok but neglected it. Tuvok has had his day's. But that one ep in Season 7 where the Maquis take over the ship is one example. Would Spock or a white Vulcan for that matter ever be brain washed. This happened before Tuvok contracted that Vulcan mind sickness.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Can't speak to that end, nor can I comment on T'Pol (Enterprise hasn't arrived here yet, sob). But one good reason Spock 'did' more than Tuvok, and was involved with more command issues was because he was First Officer. Tuvok was not.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Would Spock or a white Vulcan for that matter ever be brain washed."
Does "brainwashed" include having your brain physically removed from your body, and being controlled by your shipmates w/ a remote control?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Ah, but Spock was Jewish.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
TSN: BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Yah...what does being a white Vulcan (as opposed to black) have to do with ones propensity for being brainwashed? I just don't understand where you're coming from.
I'm not disagreeing that the writers could have done more with Tuvok. They could've done more with alot fo the charcters. Ok...all of the characters. I don't think Tuvok was exclusively shafted.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"It was Nimoy who came of with the Vulcan attitude. He created the Vulcan nerve pinch and the famous Vulcan saying."
Not only did Nimoy improvise all his own lines, he also applied his own makeup, and single handidly did all the other special effects on his own. And he played every single part in "Amok Time", including the planet Vulcan.
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
I didn't say he improvised all his own lines, or that he did everything on the show. I'm just saying he improvised some things. I also agree that almosts all the characters on VOY could have had more to do (except for The Doctor and Seven).
[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Dr Phlox ]
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I don't think they did bad things to him because he was black. Keep in mind The Original Series lasted 3 seasons, and Voyager lasted 7, so they had more time to do things to Tuvok. And look at Sisko--he's black, and he saves the universe in the last episode of DS9!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
So did Picard, and he was English. Er, French. One of them.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
But Picard was white. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :