I think it's possible to keep the entire Academy on Earth. In San Francisco, there's the main campus. However, spread all over Earth are branches of the Academy. Currently existing miliary academies such as West Point or VMI would, in the future, be converted into various campuses for the Academy. With so many campuses, the Federation could actually keep all it's cadets on Earth. There wouldn't be any need of off-world campuses and could explain why everyone we see who's heading of to the Academy or is already a cadet whould be going to or is already at Earth. Thoughts anyone?
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Or TPTB think that viewers prefer the concept that humanity has the "monopoly" for training Federation cadets.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think that it's been the producers' intention that Earth is the only place you can go to the Academy. However, it makes much more sense to assume there are other annexes.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
According to TNG Eye of the Beholder there's a Starfleet Academy on Psi Upsilon 3 and a Starfleet Technical Services Academy on Mars.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
And, er, given the debates we've had about the size of the Federation, doesn't it seem rather odd to ship cadets ten years across the Federation to go to a 4-year schooling?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
For some reason, I seem to recall that Troi took her Starfleet training on Betazed...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I don't think so. Riker served on Betazed for awhile where he met Troi. But that was after serving on the Pegasus. Is that what you're thinking of?
She may have taken some training for her counselor's position on Betazed....
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Troi took her counselling training on Betazed before going to the academy. I think that Riker had something to do with that decision as well as her father - wasn't he also in Starfleet?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I think it was stated or implied that Troi went to university for however long that takes on Betazed, before joining Starfleet.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Troi said she went to University on Betzoid for her psychology degree. It was never mentioned how Starfleet figured into it.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
this would fit with commissions being awarded to people who have completed college. The doctors probably completed their schooling in their field and then were awarded commissions as officers (but not in the line of command unless certified) based on their proficience in their specialty. The only analogy i can think is on MASH all the doctors werent from Army colleges, they went to regular medical schools and on the basis of that were awarded commissions when they joined up
Posted by thoughtcriminal84 (Member # 480) on :
is it possible that other species are unfamiliar with the Earth concept of "Academy" when applied to particular avenues?
That is to say...while the Vulcans have the highly visible schools of logic, and the Klingons are taught to fight from an early age (due to certain stereotypical archtypes being overriding in their respective culture's value systems for some reason I can't figure out, other than simplicity for the writers--i.g. these folks act this way, those folks act that way, throw a small twist in it, now you have a character) we don't actually see much of their universities and such. This doesn't mean they don't have them, and yet...wouldn't any academy on such idealogically homogenous worlds be rather dogmatic? I mean, more so than you would want in your typical federation training?
Earth may very well be the logical choice for the training of cadets in the Trek universe because of it's relatively diverse cultural setting--part of the training, you might say.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
There may be something to that. If Starfleet wants to impose the human values on its officers, it might be a good idea to train them somewhere outisde the reach of their native cultural influences...
The Deanna Troi deal seems to be that she was studying at the University of Betazed at a time when Riker was assigned on the planet, but about to move on to the Potemkin and leave Deanna behind. Other timeline cues would put this only two years before Troi's graduation from the Starfleet Academy, which is why it looks as if she was doing her Academy studies at Betazed. Or then her SF Academy training did not take the full four years. The exact details of the timeline elude me at the moment - I once went through this mess and found no way out, but that was years ago.
Also, Bashir would be a nice case for testing our theories on graduation: we see him graduated at Lt.(jg) rank in "Emissary" and learn his exact age in "Distant Voices", and the combination seems to rule out the theory of "8 years of med studies + 4 years of SF studies". Again, I'm too lazy to work out the details...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I don't see why Federation universities couldn't have OTC/ROTC schemes. . .
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I was always under the impression that Bashir went through the Academy, graduated with the rank of Ensign, then enrolled in, or simply continued his studies in Starfleet Medical School. I'm almost positive he's mentioned such a school. He's most definitely mentioned Medical School at least in general since he graduated second in his class. However, I find it somewhat unlikely that the courses didn't overlap somewhat. He probably took the equivilant of pre-med during his Academy tenure.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
makes more sense if they do it the OTC way.. you go to (no-Starfleet) college for a med program, and also go through officer training so that you can be awarded a commission when you graduate
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
If both institutions (the Academy and the Med School) were Starfleet, though, he could still have earned a higher rank upon graduation from Med School. Besides, we know that he had just gotten out of Med School when he was posted to DS9. There have been references to his getting to choose a posting based on his class rank. He also said that when he graduated Med School he had to make a choice between SF and working at his then-girlfriend's father's hospital.
So, I'm going to stick with Academy training either precedes or occurs concurrently with Med School/Psychology training.
I'm sure there are variations...i.e. doctors who decide later in life they want to join up. But I'm saying that this is probably the way it goes for officers who want to go into medicine specifically for Starfleet.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:doctors who decide later in life they want to join up
Isn't that what Bev did? Or where she and Jack in the service at the same time?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
its unclear. however, remember that Jack's proposal was written on a gag gift of a book entitled 'How to Advance Your Career Through Marriage' .. Since being married to a Starfleet commander wouldnt really affect her career as a doctor (?) it might be presupposed that that meant she was entering or in Starfleet at the time.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
There's also Bev's age and rank to consider. I doubt a medical officer could reach the rank of full commander and be as young as Beverly is if she didn't join Starfleet at an early age.
Obviously it could happen...It just seems unlikely to me.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Today, the military will pay for you to attend medical school in return for an obligation to serve for so many years. Also, those with special skills not able to be taught within the military (medical, JAG, etc.) go to civilian medical school and law school. One might be able to get their medical degree in a military institution, for instance, Bethesda Naval Hospital. I'm not sure.
In the Navy, those types of officers aren't line, which means they can't command ships. There's a similar demarcation in the other services. This is apparently copied in Starfleet, where staff (non-line) Starfleet officers aren't by default able to hold command positions. But, like Troi, they can take an exam and the requisite courses and become certified. Unlike Starfleet though, with the Navy, you're either staff or your line. You ain't both.
Also, officers with special skils (medicine) also recieve "Special Pay" (separate from Basic Pay and Incentive Pay) for their skills. They also tend to go through the ranks a bit faster, but for obvious reasons stop around Major/Commander or so.
There's no reason Starfleet doesn't have ROTC. Chief O'Brian once stated that he never went for officer, implying there is an OCS as well. I don't recall, though, if he mentioned OCS specifically. Most likely, there's one Starfleet Academy, and SFROTC all over the place. From what I gather about Troi's personality, she was probably what we call a One Year Wonder. In other words, she got in in the last year and took a stripped down and blitzkrieged Starfleet education. These only get offered to those with special skills. In the Air Force, it is impossible to be a pilot or navigator as a One Year Wonder.
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as well as her father - wasn't he also in Starfleet?