Hey look at that bald dude in the Flash Gordon getup.. doesnt he look like a clone of Picard?
And those Remans look like a Romulan makeup lab accident?
[ April 03, 2002, 13:45: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Wow. That is quite a resemblence between Picard and Flash Gordon dude. I'd say that's a good call on the casting.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
by the way, MIB sent me these pics. I think we should all thank him..
gotta say.. those costumes suck. what are they wasting their money on.. jeez
[ March 12, 2002, 20:46: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:what are they wasting their money on.. jeez
Hopefully it's anything but a joystick or a command loveseat.
I like the uniforms the Remans are wearing. I think they look fairly good on them. On the other guy... yikes. No good at all. Reminds of how bad Odo looked wearing that Cardassian uniform. Maybe it's just his battle uniform and not what he wears for the duration of the movie?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Firstly, um, these photos are hardly new. If we're relying on MIB to ferry week-old news, then I suggest taking steps to remedy your problem.
Secondly, the costumes look kind of Dune-ish. And gee, I wonder why...
[ March 12, 2002, 22:31: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
Why can't they make the transition from tv to movie? I have been hoping since Generations for this to happen.
Do you happen to know which movie arrives in theaters at roughly the same time as Nemesis? Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. This will be the movie I will be seeing, not some big production two hour tv episode.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh...yeah.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by targetemployee:
Why can't they make the transition from tv to movie? I have been hoping since Generations for this to happen.
Do you happen to know which movie arrives in theaters at roughly the same time as Nemesis? Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. This will be the movie I will be seeing, not some big production two hour tv episode.
OMG! Puh-LEEZE you've ALREADY written of Nemesis!?! Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have a record. Really, you've really got to be joking. Are you that poor, or not up with the cunning to either see BOTH or sneak into one and pay for the other!?! Or variations of the above!?!
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, c'mon, Colin, I mean, sure you work at Target, but you live with your mother, that's gotta lead to some hefty savings.
Looking at this Topm Hardy guy, I just had a horrible thought. Suppose they'd cast Peter Woodward (Galen the Technomage in Crusade) instead? They sure look similar. . . only hopefully Hardy's acting is better.
And as for these Remans. .. ugh. Uniforms aside, I don't like the idea that Remans are the butt-ugly mutant Romulans that no-one's ever seen. And isn't Ron Perlman meant ot be playing a Reman? If so, I'm pissed off, I was hoping to see him as a Romulan, not swathed in loads of makeup again. . .
Posted by Supreme Chancellor Ultra von Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I guess target is one of those guys who takes the taglines that begin with "If you see one movie all year..."
Y'know, because it is possible to see TWO movies in one year!
WHAT?
Of course, I go every week, but hey.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
I wonder if the guy in orange in the second pic is Data or Lore? Someone found the evil twin and put him back together maybe?
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
Since there is a spoiler warning in the thread, I can say it normally:
The Picard clone as you called it is indeed just that, and he's called Shinzon. The Android you see above is called B9 (or Benign), and is yet another lost 'brother' of Data and Lore.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Galen roXXors!! His dialogue was so deep and meaningful, and his character was not smug and annoying at all!
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Clones and a lost brother, plus unseen/unheard of mutant Romulans with ugly outfits. This movie is getting better by the minute.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Are you serious?
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
Hey. The outfits look good on a Reman. On a Human, however, they look quite gay.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Who?
(Er...in reference to Mr. Poet.)
[ March 13, 2002, 18:58: Message edited by: Sol System ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Matrix, Simon.
Gay evil alternates seem to be all the rage these days. The Intendant, Vampire Willow, now Clone Picard. . .
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
if you happen to meet your mirror universe counterpart (you know, the one with the goatee) dont let him catch you bending over to pick up an agonizer if you know what i mean
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
heh heh heh.....
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I don't know if it's because it's late here, but ROTFLMAO!!!!!! heh heh.
Yeah, remember The Regent and Garak in... I think it was "Shattered Mirror" were 'gay' - there was a little bit of sexual tension between the two... I CAN'T remember the exact words - or if it was just played that way by Dorn (Rhymes with Morn) ;o) and Robinson.
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Another lost brother? Oh come on! Pull the other one! There were only ever Data and Lore - stupid writers, how can they simply create another? Is Brent Spiner one of the story writers again?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Actually, uh, yes.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Actually, Data had lots of brothers. It's only that he and Lore functioned correctly (and I'm using the term loosely for Lore). Remember the TNG episode where Data's mother came aboard the Enterprise? She mentioned that it took many tries before Soong got to Lore. She was also very much against Soong's going ahead with Data after loosing all of the previous models and Lore.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Still might as well as blow up the ship in the same movie and towards the end have a Sovereign class Enterprise 1701-F beat the bad guys.
At the same time lets have a super ship of 40 feet capable of destroying Borg Cubes.
After that its time to time travel to prevent Picard from being cloned!!!!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Didn't Data's "mother" say there were three failures before Lore? And that they were actual failures in the sense that they just didn't work (as opposed to Lore who worked, but was evil)?
Besides, do we know that Soong built B9? Maybe someone got ahold of the plans and built their own.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
If I'm remembering the episode correctly, I think the earlier versions did work to an extent but were rather much like children mentally and then the positronic nets collapsed (roughly similar to what happened to Lal). I need to watch the episode again to make sure.
As far as I've heard, it's not been revealed how B9 came about. Maybe it's one of the earlier versions of a Soong android that the Romulans/Remans managed to sneak away from Omicron Theta and do a little fixing. Maybe they got ahold of Data's schematics and attempted to build a Soong-type android (how often weren't those schematics transferred over subspace communications?). It hasn't been revealed and might not be fully touched upon in Nemesis.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What was that season 7 episode where Data's "mother" comes on board... it was quite a good episode... That was Fionula Flannagan as Data's "mother" wasn't it? She also played The Klaestron lady who was 'doin it' with Curzon didn't she?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Inheritance". And yes (except the double-'n' belongs in her first name, not last). And yes.
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
I just got back into the thread. I read the responses to my posting.
Here's the facts: 1. I do 25 hours a week at Target at $8.54. 2. My pay is reduced by state income taxes, federal income taxes, SSI, 401K deductions, and medical benefits. 3. I will driving a car in late 2002. This means I will be paying for insurance, maintenance, and fuel. 4. To see a movie, I need to fork over $8.00. Add in goodies, I am paying upwards of $20.00. 5. Finally, I am saving money to leave a state which I am not fond of.
Looking at these facts, I have decided that Nemesis is a rental. If I want to see Star Trek, I will turn on tv every Wednesday night and watch 'Enterprise'.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Hm... I work fewer hours than that, at a lower rate. And I have to pay rent. And yet, seeing a movie doesn't break me.
Not to mention that it is possible to pay only the admission fee, and still see the movie. Contrary to what they might have you believe, it is not mandatory to buy extra stuff.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
You could also go see a matinee, and skip the "treats" ... it'd only be a dollar or so more then a rental.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
You don't need goodies to go to the movie... It's a habit that's hard to break but when you do, do it - you realise that you don't need to take anything in to eat and drink - actually for the lord of the rings it's preferrable - otherwise you have to leave halfway through to go to the toilet!
Andrew
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yeah. Get a small popcorn and a small Pepsi - even then they're still about the size of half a bathtub each. 8)
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
...and costs about $5 each.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
This is why I usually only watch movies in the winter time. That way, I can get away with wearing a heavy coat with lots of secret internal pockets for me to sneak in snacks and a can of Dr Pepper.
But still, I'm just not a real big fan of going out and seeing movies.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Being an aspiring film major, one needs to be exposed to as many films as possible, or so I say to my Uncle Faloornie, who's raised me since I was 26. And then he gives me money, part to keep me on top of my studies, and part to resume his chain drinking with his buddies from Korea.
Well, considering that doesn't happen, I try to go to the movies at least once a week, and it hasn't sent me to the male prostitution ring yet. At least not for movie money. Not eating is, like Andrew{?} said, hard to get used to, but worth it after all.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I'm not sure as to the veracity of this.. some of it seems pretty fake, but then again when i first read the Insurrection script i decried it as a pitiful fanboy fake, only to find that the things that made it look juvenile made it onto the screen.. this also matchs the markered up two pages i saw scanned in on another site from the Picard/Shinzon conversation (about his nose being broken)
The most distressing part is the incineration of Data.. im hoping this is bullshit
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, we know for the most part what his fate is.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
?? please share
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Unless there have been changes, Data does die. However, earlier in the movie, he imparts some if not all of his experiences and memories over to B9 hoping to benefit the new android and helping B9 to learn and understand. In the end, B9 begins to exhibit what he has learned from Data so that we don't really completely lose him.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
?? then its true!? thats the worst story ive ever read.. what a load of shit!.. they werent kidding when they said they wanted to rip off TWOK.. its more like a bizarre recipe crossing between TWOK and Insurrection.. with some cowshit mixed in for flavor
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
this script and those pictures remind me of rejects from the monkeys who were trying to type shakespeare.. i was going to say it seemed like Voyager script rejects, but thats not being fair to Voyager.
[ March 18, 2002, 20:18: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
*shields eyes from the contents of most of the above posts*
Well, while I haven't read said script, it is widely-believed to be the first draft. If it's any consolation, keep in mind that were you to have gotten your hands on the first draft of First Contact's script this time six years ago, not only would you end up going to the theatres in the fall and seeing a totally different film, but the odds are great that you'd call the first draft a steaming pile of shit (because IMHO it was fairly weak) and then be pleasantly surprised by the finished product. <Phlox>Optimism, Captain!</Phlox>
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I've got to agree with Tom. This actually could still be an early draft. I didn't find much of it extremely great either, but we could be seeing something much better in November.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
Well, it says "Shooting Script" on the top. The First Contact script said "First Draft". Anybody who's read a number of scripts knows the difference; shooting scripts tend not to be rewritten save for an occassional changed line.
Remember that the posted "Generations" and "Broken Bow" scripts were rather correct, so unless somebody went through an enormous and incomprehensible pain to create a fake script, this ought to be close to what we'll see. There was a fake "First Contact" fragment floating around, and let's not forget the questionable kiss-scene and Klingon forehead reference in Broken Bow; on the whole, however, this ought to be right.
I hope they change the reference to Ent-E Deck 29 on page 77, or the fake 47844 stardate though...Parts of it feel weird, such as Picard's wedding speech (less serious than something we'd expect from Picard, but the characters have changed, who knows?). There's a lot of Insurrection-style comedy which doesn't work that well, but it could be correct.
[ March 19, 2002, 08:06: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Well, I did admit to taking the guilty pleasure of reading to first couple of pages, and the absence of the Wesley and Guinan cameos would strike me as evidence enough that this isn't the shooting script.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
Well, the script mentions that several familiar people from the Star Trek shows are in the background, which is weird, because I don't think they would ever invite these actors just to stand there and say nothing. It seems to me that they didn't know for certain who would be available, and held off those scenes until the rest of shooting was complete.
You can easily insert scenes that are not specified in the shooting script; for instance, in "Generations" we got the "Captain's Log, stardate 48632.4" entry after the scene with Data and Crusher was removed; then there was the whole alternative ending with Kirk's death, done much later as the test audiences weren't satisfied with the original.
Boris
[ March 19, 2002, 08:29: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
It seemed to me a bit long; pasted into Word, it came out at about 105 pages, which given the one-page-per-minute rule would equal an hour 45 minutes; now, I can't say how long any of the other films have been but I doubt many of them have been even that long (remember how short Insurrection was, and how much they cut from that).
I, likewise, read from the vague mention of TNG guests that this might not be the final script. I've never read another Trek script (I only dipped into this one) so I can't say for certain how "real" it feels; it strikes me as a bit clumsy (especially the humour, and the check-list of bits we know about already) but then I thought the same about that synopsis of the Insurrection script which turned out to be correct. . .
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Given we know that Guinan and Wesley are cameo appearances, they should at least be talked about if they themselves have no lines. I'd like to know what's been happening to Guinan and Wesley these past few years and how they got notified about the wedding, how they came to it and when. Ya know some info about them would be nice instead of just seeing them with no explanation whatsoever. And call me a fanboy, but I'd like to delay the battle between the Scimitar and the E-E until we at least see the supposed Starfleet battle fleet instead of a few icons on a display. Plus, I'd like to see an extended battle between the Scimitar, the E-E, and Donatra's ship. It seemed to short and too weak. And the USS Talos? I hope that's been named after something else and not the Talos Star Group and Talos IV. And then of course, there's no mention that Data could have been XO when Riker leaves. Wouldn't that make the most sense? And how about having LaForge the new Ops/2nd Officer and moving up as the new XO after Data's death. And Worf leaving with Riker to be his XO? This could have been a better script, but keeping a few people away from advancement all these years makes no sense.
Oh, and the officers from other Trek series could include O'Brien, and Voyager's doctor. And there could be Barclay once again.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
well, cameos like that are often realized after a few drafts of the script, when they are already into casting. (often a new character might be changed into an established character if thats the actor they pick)
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Hey, Magnus -- what state are you an aspiring film major in? I'm heading the same direction down here in disgustingly sunny Southern Cali.
--Jonah
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I'd take any and everything UM says with a really big grain of salt. He's probably as much a film major as a man-train major.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Well, despite *actually* being a film major, I'd have to agree with Snay. I'm not in America, which really means that the filmmaking options available to me are Hindu Pornography.
Mr. Benson thinks quite lowly of me, so ignore his rudeness.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Don't worry. It's only a matter of time before Saskatchewan becomes a state. Not that we really want it, but we can't just leave it out when we take the rest of the country. Québec, however, we can leave out.
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
So can we.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I don't think lowly of you. I just don't believe what you say, because we're all familiar with your humor. Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Wil Wheaton has noted on his website that he does have a scene with McFadden and Stewart and that he does have dialogue, so I'm saying there was a least one rewrite since this copy.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
An Omega-class EAS Talos appeared in the last episode of B5, "Sleeping in Light."
Also appearing, according to this script, is a USS Hemingway.
One other thing I note (amazing how much I've picked up given I've only read a few bits!): Shinzon is mentioned as having been cloned 25 years ago; if this remains, then we'll have to face the fact that despite their seeming period of isolation, the Romulans were actively involved in covert ops in the Federation during the 2350's - the elapsed time would put them choosing to clone Picard while he was captain of the Stargazer. . .
Not only is TOS Romulan history currently being re-written in Enterprise, now the TNG movies are re-writing TNG Romulan history! 8)
[ March 19, 2002, 16:21: Message edited by: Vogon Poet ]
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Spoilers $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
$ $ So, Shinzon wants to take his big weapon and destroy Earth, thinking that this will severely cripple the Federation. Putting aside for the moment the fact that the Federation will most likely survive the destruction of one member planet, I'd really like to know why he wants to do this. What did Earth or the Federation ever do to him? Shouldn't he be more pissed off at the Romulans? After all, they were the ones who created him and then abandoned & banished him to slave labor on Remus. I would think that he would want to destroy Romulus before he even thought about the Feds.
I've read the script. It sounds awful. Horrendously awful. I could have come up with a better script than that.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
I've written down problems in the first half of the script (that I've read). The script reminds me a LOT of Insurrection, with too much pointless humor (Worf is being sarcastic every other line), too many unnecessarily "cool" new vehicles (the new shuttle and the Argo), and too many inconsistencies with the rest of the TNG movies and series. Here are some:
1) Jean-Luc says he's the first Picard to leave Earth, but we learn in "Generations" that some Picards were part of the first Mars colony.
2) Data only mentions Lore and himself being Soong's androids -- what about Juliana Soong (I hope I have the name right)?
3) Data still talks about not being able to understand certain emotions -- what happened to his emotion chip? Hasn't he tried out everything by now?
Note: I'm criticizing the story; all of this can be explained somehow from our perspective, but that's not what I'm trying to do.
The characters feel right, although one's lacking the depth that TNG had once again. Also, bringing in Logan to write about Romulans was quite a logical choice, for obvious reasons. He seems to have done his homework for the most part.
On the other hand, I don't want to see B-9, yet another "relative" of Data (after Lal, Juliana, Lore). And the whole Shinzon thing and the obvious mirror pattern (Romulans/Remans, Data/B9, Picard/Shinzon) is interesting but familiar. Think "Apocalypse Now".
Also, Shinzon is an awful name for somebody pretending to be Picard. Reminds me of Faker, the He-Man android created by Skeletor (the useless figure with red hair, red Skeletor-armor, red sword, and blue skin).
Boris
[ March 19, 2002, 20:13: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
when i read the early insurrection script, i thought it was a joke perpetrated by a fanboy because Star Trek would never have stupid Klingon-zit jokes, and never have anyone say 'firm boobs' or have a joke about an android being used as a flotation device.
thats what i thought anyway.
and Shinzon reminds me of a Batman villain.. i keep thinking hes trying to freeze Gotham City or something.. whats his motivation again?
it doesnt help that his costume looks like it came from the Joel Schumacher Batman movies either..
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
quote: And the audience now realizes it is Data pretending to be the B-9 and rejoices.
He's writing what the audience does now? Jesus...
This is a very very bad script...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Data isn't likely to mention his "mother" because she doesn't know she's an android, nor do the people around her. (Of course, I haven't read the appropriate passage, so I am unaware of the context.)
And I have what I am told is a rather full range of emotions, from pride to jealousy, and I don't understand many of them.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Sol, in "Inheritence", when Juliana fell and was "knocked out", she was revealed to be an android... Crusher and LaForge examined her. They found the message chip from Dr. Soong in her head. Picard was on hand for most of this...
The senior staff of the Enterprise knows about her.
--Jonah
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Please tell me this is all a joke. That when we see Nemesis that it will be atually good then this B Movie look alike that we are talking about.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Duh. That's why I mentioned I didn't know what context Data was speaking in.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
So I've gotten lots of emails about this apparent Nemesis script that's on the net, and I have a thing or two to say about it.
I took a look at it, and it's not the script I was handed, stamped "CONFIDENTIAL" all over it. It's not the script we shot.
I guess lots of people have jumped to some wild conclusions about this, which is understandable, because we all want the movie to be good.
Finally, here's something to ask yourself , if you've read it: Would you judge a baseball team's world series chances by their performance in their first Spring Training game?
Like every movie, some people will love this, and some people won't. I bet every hard core Trekkie will find something to love, and something to hate. That's the mark of a good movie. The studio could still mess it up, but I'm not too worried.
Relax, everybody. It's not Episode One. I promise. It's going to be fine.
Posted by Boris (Member # 713) on :
There are many ways to interpret "it's not the script..." -- for all we know, the changes could be minor. Let's hope they're not!
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
Thank god the E-script, isn't the same script that was handed to the actors. Just a day or two before Paramount's vast army of clone lawyers forced the website to take down the script, I read through it. It was absolute shit to the Nth degree!!!
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
^If it's a fake, then why did Paramount shut it down...?
I don't think it's the FINAL script, but I'd bet it's a late draft.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Well, AICN's first script review of the first draft arrived some time ago, and apparently there's now word that this is the same script that they had months ago.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I hope that Nemesis doesn't come down to one plot point to make the movie interesting. I really enjoyed Insurrection on my FIRST viewing - I avoided nearly ALL Internet spoilers - and met up with a friend when we went and saw it. I enjoyed it as I said - actually I really liked it. And the crux of the story was that the Son'a were really the Bak'u... that was a good plot twist. The friend I went with didn't enjoy the movie as much... his reason - he had already read about the plot twist on the internet, so it spoiled the movie for him. In First Contact - you could have known most of the plot - and still REALLY enjoyed it. Insurrection I feel came down to that one little plot twist. Repeat viewings were also quite... lacklustre (apart from the general treat of it being a trek movie and having the TNG cast reunited, etc.).
Hey look at that bald dude in the Flash Gordon getup.. doesnt he look like a clone of Picard?![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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