Just a question... does anyone know who is doing the score for Nemesis? I hope Jerry Goldsmith isn't doing it AGAIN. And no to McCarthy. What about Elfman? I'm listening to the Batman soundtrack at the moment... quite good.
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
Goldsmith has been offically confirmed. Sorry. =[
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
I wish they'd get James Horner back... *sulk*
--Jonah
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ahhhh fuck. That's Berman's fault - he doesn't want to leave his comfort zone. Goldsmith better not pull another 'Insurrection' that score severely SUCKED. It was so insipid - well I guess most of the movie was... It was a total rehash of the First Contact score. TMP - great, TFF - AMAZINGLY BRILLIANT - FC - love it... Insurrection - crap-heap.
Isn't it funny one of the best scores is for the crappiest movie!
In reality though FC and Insurrection were just a rehash of TFF and TMP. It's quite sad really.
Berman wont push the envelope. The Star Trek 6 score was so brilliant, as well - what was his name - Rosenmen or what ever - did a good job. That movie just came together perfectly.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Copying long-dead Germans is "pushing the envelope?"
"Gee, Cliff, I want to use Holst's the Planets, but the royalties are too high. Um, uh, could you make your score, uh, 'similar' to it? Y'know, close enough to make everyone think you're brilliant?"
Goldsmith's batting .750. Works for me. And the point of it being a franchise is that there are common musical threads running from one film to another. Goldsmith no more "rehashed" than Williams did with his four SW scores or his three IJ ones.
[ March 23, 2002, 07:02: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
*sigh* I will never understand the chronic hatred of Insurrection. Would I be publically stoned if I said I liked the movie?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Possibly, but, unless you're opinion of the movie is ased solely on its score, I'm not sure what your point is...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Copying long-dead Germans is "pushing the envelope?"
OK, I know about 'that' history - because I read it - but I wouldn't have known if I hadn't read about it. I can seriously say that there is NOTHING 'Holst' about Undiscovered Country - except its a grandious score.
I'm talking about leaving his safe zone with Goldsmith. If you're talking about Wagner as the 'German' - most movie scores are derived from Wagner - so that's a silly comment. And Holst was English.
"pushing the envelope" is by trying something NEW say a new composer - and not sitting safely with Goldsmith. Yeah Goldsmith continues 'themes' throughout his various Trek Scores, but you couldn't get anything more DIFFERENT than TMP and TFF. FC and Ins though were very similar - except Ins was just a disgustingly poor copy of First Contact. And considering this will be the third movie in a row with Goldsmith... one can only ASSUME he's probably going to rest on his mostly decayed laurels from First Contact.
You can be a well established composer and either pump out carbon copies or be really inventive - and I will too, use Williams as an example. A.I. Artificial Intelligence was SUCH a WONDERFUL score... it was TOTALLY not Williams, but was Williams. It was inspiring and sad and all that. Harry Potter... ugh - except for the beginning celeste motif... they might as well just used the Episode 1 score - they are SO similar - it's really bad in that reguard.
There are MANY composers out there that can do the job, and who can bring subtlty and also grandious feelings to their scores - look at Christopher Franke - he has turned out to be a real fan favourite (among B5 fans). Even Joel Goldsmith would be a welcome change - I think some of his Stargate scores are GREAT! But we (well I) want a return to the "big arsed" scores of TWOK, TSFS and TUC.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
According to the IMDb, Goldsmith's probably going to be scoring The Haunted Lighthouse and then move on to Nemesis with no other films on the horizon for 2002 (yet). I can only suppose that mean's that he'll have a bit more time with this one--I think Goldsmith acknowledged that he got cut a bit short timewise for the Insurrection score. He certainly took the effort to come up with a lot of very new and very sweeping stuff for First Contact, so I'm optimistic that the potential exists for him coming up with a fresh new main theme and perhaps some really cool, for lack of a better term, "thematic themes." Like a distinct Romulan theme, or a Picard/Shinzon theme or something (perhaps one particular tune, with the Picard theme tossing in bars of the Enterprise fanfare here and there and the Shinzon theme with the same core but instead tossing in bars of a Romulan melody?).
Here's also hoping there'll be a suitable spot for plenty of Klingon Battle Theme music (we only got maybe twenty seconds of it in First Contact, and five in Insurrection), damn I love that tune.
The fact of the matter is that if Trek is ever going to break into the Academy Awards, the most realistic categories are sound effects editing and the like, visual effects (though 2002 will be a tight slate w/Spider-Man, AotC and TTT), makeup, and score. (In the event of a super outing by Zimmerman and a weak overall slate, its concievable but a little unrealistic to get an art direction nod.) I think Goldsmith's got enough gas left in him to try for Oscar again, and if the movie does equal Berman's "rip-roaring" billing and provides a canvas of balls-to-the-wall action, it should set the stage for something more grandiose in the score department. [Aside: To be quite honest, the score field this year wasn't brilliant. Shore's LotR score was amazing all right, but Williams' Potter score was pretty paint-by-the-numbers and substandard.]
[ March 25, 2002, 07:30: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by The Vorlon (Member # 52) on :
I hope he can incorporate the existing Romulan theme from TNG (most prominent in 'The Defector', amoung others). I thought that was a really good theme for the Romulans.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I've never noticed the Romulan theme... was there one in TOS?
That is good that he (Goldsmith) will have some more time, and that he acknowleges/reveals that Insurrection's composing time was short. Does anyone think it sounds like Insurrection's problem was... disorganisation? Is this what the Producers do?
As I mentioned above? Williams score for A.I. was great - it was different and interesting, and really emotive - but yeah Harry Potter score was EXACTLY that... Paint by the numbers! That Quidditch scene was very 'pod racing'. Howard Shore's score was WELL deserved. TOTALLY well deserved - that has to be one of the most sonically rich scores EVER. As he mentioned at the Oscars, he brought Tolkien's words to live in music!
Williams nom for two? Maybe they should have given a spot for something else? Any suggestions? Amelie perhaps!?! Pity it didn't win best Foreign Film.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I can't believe Amelie didn't win. . . it was the best film last year that wasn't Lord of the Rings.
Almost makes you wonder. . . you have this French-language film that does way better in the rest of the world than many higher-profile US films; and then it gets passed over for some obscure Eastern-European film no-one's ever seen. That'll teach those French to make films people actually want to see, maybe they'll learn their lesson now and stick to making arty films that bore people to tears!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Oh, "arty films"... At first glance, I thought I saw the phrase "dirty films"...
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I can say with complete honesty that I have watched several dozen French films and never once seen one without frontal nudity of some nature.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Totally agree Vogon - and yeah Amelie was the best film after LOTR.
The_Tom - go see Amelie - no frontal nudity - if that's what you DON'T want to see! ;o)
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Getting back to film scores, if you want a Trek composer who was severely into cloning, two words: James Horner. He's gotten better in the last few years, but most of his work in the 80s could have been cut and pasted from one movie to another and you'd never be able to tell the difference.
While I like both Williams and Goldsmith, in some ways I think Goldsmith is the more inventive of the two. His handicap is that a lot of his best work has been tied up in less successful films (when it wasn't deleted altogether, as in the case of "Legend"). Williams' work has been in more successful films, especially due to his being Spielberg's pet composer.
[ March 26, 2002, 06:56: Message edited by: Woodside Kid ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: go see Amelie - no frontal nudity
Yes there is, actually, after a fashion, though it's hardly erotic in nature.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
How does one have frontal nudity "after a fashion"? Isn't that sort of a yes/no situation?
"He's dead, Jim, after a fashion..."
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Well, you would be wearing the fashion, and then, once removed, you'd be naked. So, it's after the fashion.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, what I meant is that there's a doctor's eye view of a birth, which certainly involves nudity, but I'm not sure it fits the technical definition of full frontal, assuming such a thing exists.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Back to scores... John Williams' AotC score has just been blown loose upon the roiling currents of the open internet.
I'm still downloading half of it, and well, continence is dropping proportionally.
Feckin' amazing.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
*starts up Napigator*
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
[ March 26, 2002, 15:00: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You bastard. I'm going to have to download that now, aren't I?
(I also think that when the hyper-super editions come out, Williams should really sneak the Emperor/Palaptine's theme into The Empire Strikes Back. And the lack of the Imperial March in A New hope is also painfully obvious).
"I can seriously say that there is NOTHING 'Holst' about Undiscovered Country - except its a grandious score."
And the fact that large portions of the score sounded more like Mars than Williams ever did also doesn't count, obviously.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What Williams!?! The only resemblence to 'Mars: Bringer of War' is the large brass and 'grandiose' SP? Score... It has nothing of the weird rhythms, and underlying uneasiness that Mars brings. TUC - is just one 'huge' score. It works well with the movie - very nicely - but as a stand alone soundtrack - I was quite dissapointed. TFF both movie-wise and soundtrack are great - one of the few saving graces for that movie.