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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I just had a very disturbing thought. EVERY major ship has been destroyed in the main Star Trek timeline about 2 or 3 episodes/movies before the final showing of that series.

Check this:
USS Enterprise NCC-1701: Destroyed in Star Trek 3. Replaced by a new Enterprise which was seen only 3 times, in the last 3 TOS movies.

USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D: Destroyed in Star Trek 7. Replaced by a new Enterprise which is seen only 2 times, probably 3 at most, in the last 2 or 3 TNG movies.

USS Defiant: Destroyed. Replaced by a new Defiant which was seen only 2 times, in the last two episodes.

Do I detect a pattern here?
So what about Voyager???

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"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Well, I doubt that if Voyager is destroyed the new one will retain the same registry. Then again, we could have the "What You Leave Behind" on the USS Defiant CGI scandal...

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Cigar Girl- "Would you like to check my figures?"

James Bond- "I'm sure that they are very well rounded..."

The World is Not Enough

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

This is not about registries. The title was just a joke to get you interested. For all I care a new Voyager will have the number NCC-90000.

The point here is that all those other famous ships were destroyed in the MAIN Star Trek timeline, and then replaced by a ship that was on screen 3 times at most.

Do you think Voyager should uphold this 'tradition' (other than that you hate Voyager). Personally I'd like to see a Sovereign Class USS Voyager. But that probably won't happen because of possible confusion with the Ent-E.

Another thing that would be fun: Bring Voyager home halfway season 7. Then destroy the darn thing in the season final. And then give Janeway a totally new class of ship where the EMH is replaced with the Doc (saved by a mobile emiter ofcource).
That new ship should have a Sovereign/Intrepid look without folding nacelles, and should be about 450 meters or so. I think that would be a great idea.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Hey... I just got an idea!

Look HERE for more details.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

I don't care what the new ship looks like the new registry should have an A behind it. Anyway it is a bit premature to say voyager will be destroyed (although this has happened in the past).

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"We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy

members.aol.com/mfwan/index.htm

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Actually, putting an A on it would be a bad idea. Would it really be the Voyager-A? Are you suggesting there were no ships in SF named Voyager before the one we have now?

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :

Not that I want Voyager to be destroyed or anything, but if it were why not have it be a Prometheus class? By the time Voyager gets destroyed the class should be public knowledge. Or if the Federation develops Quantum Slip Stream tech they could have a Dauntless class ship, built from sensor records.

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"Contact in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... more or less."
-Tal Celes "Good Shepard"
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7647/

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Paris finally gets the idea of the thread

Thanks.

And I like your ideas! A Prometheus class USS Voyager. COOL!

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Teelie (Member # 280) on :

Blow it to hell!

J/K. It'd be funny though if they made it to Earth/Spacedock only for it to have a melt down or fall apart, lol.

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Ex-Admin at the TrekBBS.com

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I think it's a bad idea. Trek hasn't been able to make us feel anything for their ships in awhile now. When the original E took it's final plunge, you felt something. I did, anyway. This has never really been replicated. The D blew up without so much as a by your leave, despite making for a visually impressive scene. The Defiant got a bit of a send off, but this was blunted by getting a brand new one shortly after.

Dramaticaly, I think Voyager SHOULD feature the strongest connection between ship and crew, and the show has tried to do so in the past. So its destruction would have to resonate very strongly emotionally for me not to discount it out of hand.

Having said that, it's bad idea, simply because it is so predictable.

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"Twentieth century go and sleep.
Really deep. We won't blink
Your eyes are burning holes through me.
I'm not scared I'm outta here.
I'm not scared. I'm outta here.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Please?

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Point well taken!

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

About the second Voyager's (if there will come one) rego, I think they should add an -A suffix.
Of course, the Enterprise is the only ship to carry over its old rego, supplemented by a letter suffix. But I hypothesize that Voyager has become some sort of a myth in the Federation, struggling to survive on their way home. Many people will think of Voyager's crew as heroic. And if they get home, Starfleet will break tradition and decides to register any second Voyager as NCC-74656-A. And don't tell me that there might have been other Voyagers in the past... I think that there might have been earlier Enterprises than NCC-1701 in the past as well.
Class of 74656-A? I'd like to see a Sovereign/Prometheus hybrid. I'm going to kitbash one now... and I'll post the result!

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"Alpha Centauri is a beautiful place to visit, you ought to see it" - Kirk to 1969 USAF officer Fellini, "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (TOS)

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

Well here it is:

*fanfare*

USS VOYAGER NCC-74656-A, PROMETHEREIGN (sic) CLASS!

*end fanfare*

NCC-74656-A

Hmmm.... not exactly what I had in mind.

BTW: no comments please on the kitbash; if I desired that, I would have posted it in the Artwork forum. It's just a joke.

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"Alpha Centauri is a beautiful place to visit, you ought to see it" - Kirk to 1969 USAF officer Fellini, "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (TOS)

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

It's for a fact there are no earlier Enterprises than Kirk's ship. The E-D's computer has said that there have been only five starships bearing that name including the E-D herself. That makes nil, A, B, C, and D at the time.

And Alpha, your pic isn't showing up. It seems no one has access to the directory.

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7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."
Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"
7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

PopMaze is right; the E-nil was the first Starfleet Enterprise. Plus, there are other ships w/ suffixed registries: the Yamato (though people argue this one) and the Relativity (if they can do it in the future, who says they haven't started already?).

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

[mumble]
This wasn't about the -A issue. This was about Voyager which may be destroyed at the end.
[/mumble]

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited June 15, 2000).]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Yes, it was. But now it's about the suffix. :-)

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

If the producers do decide to blow up Voyager, they better show the ship launch escape pods and shuttles!! I've always wondered why I've never saw a shuttle launch when the evacuation orders were given out like in DS9's "Emissary" or "The Changing Face of Evil" or in Voyager's "Year of Hell." That always bothered me since shuttles can move away from ships faster.

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Cigar Girl- "Would you like to check my figures?"

James Bond- "I'm sure that they are very well rounded..."

The World is Not Enough

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Shuttles need to be prepped for launch. They also need pilots, which might not be too much of an issue assuming everyone in Starfleet gets some amount of flight training. Perhaps most importantly, on most ships the shuttlebay(s) aren't too close to where the majority of the ship's population is.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Bad idea!
No other ship than the Enterprise should have ABCD-regs!
The Yamato was an error and has been corrected!

About timeships:
Maybe they have got multiple ships from slightly different timelines, and to keep track og them, you give them a letter behind the number!
OR....A new series coming up: Star Trek: Relativity!

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All FuckU-FuckMe users can control whom they connect to on an individual basis. There's no need to go to a public reflector. "

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :

Hey, that's a nice idea Prakesh! A new Star Trek series featuring the adventures of the USS Relativity as they protect the timeline!

Sounds good, I think.

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"Alpha Centauri is a beautiful place to visit, you ought to see it" - Kirk to 1969 USAF officer Fellini, "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (TOS)

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Prakesh: Think about this... What possible reason could Starfleet have for giving only Enterprises suffices? It doesn't make even the least bit of sense...

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The Enterprise A was a one time event demanded specifically by the Federation Council in honor of Kirk saving its capitol, and the tradition has been carried down to the E? Sounds highly logical to me.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Ahhhh, I no this isn't exactly an 'abandon ship' situation but Odo took Kira onto a shuttle in "The Search"

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"chocolate cherries allamanda" - Datura, Tori Amos

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Sol: If they were doing it just for Kirk et al., the E-B wouldn't have gotten a suffix.

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

That isn't what I said, TSN. I said that it was given to the A by the Council, and that Starfleet has maintained the tradition by granting the suffix to each Enterprise since.

Why? Well, tradition tends to be rather strong in such institutions. But even more importantly, the Enterprise really is a symbol of Starfleet. The exploits of the original were apparently so famous as to encourage Starfleet Command to change their insignia to that of the ship.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Doing it once (to the A) doesn't make it a tradition, so there's still no reason that they should have done it to the B...

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"How many Libraries of Congress per second can your software handle?"
-Avery Brooks, IBM commercial

Posted by Trip Tucker (Member # 297) on :

Actually, the Enterprise-A was give the suffix to honor Kirk's saving the Earth and the tradition was made ONLY because when the began to create TNG with a ship named Enterprise, the decided to use the sufix to their advantage to maintain a consistency between the two shows, so to speak. If you notice, the Enterprise-A was seen and THEN the D. The had to make the others B and C to maintain the continuity they started with giving the new Enterprise the D suffix.

Did that just all make sense?

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It is offensive. Fortunately, taste is irrelevant.
-Seven of Nine

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Real world sense, yes. But we aren't in reality.

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It's not my birthday
It's not today
It's not my birthday so why do you lunge out at me?
--
They Might Be Giants
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! I'll give you a cookie.

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

In Star Trek realitity I'd say the Ent-B should not have had a suffix. But it may have been given because of the 'legends' that the previous Enterprises were.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :

I think Captain John Harriman brown nosing made it clear how Starfleet and the federation felt about the original crew and the importance of the name Enterprise. Who knows maybe the E-B was on all the recruiting posters for the next twenty years.

Any thoughts?

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

Posted by Cartman on :

Blow up Voyager with the entire crew still on it durring the final seconds of the last episode. Thats what I call a happy ending.

Voyager is killing Trek a slow death, kill it now before it takes the entire franchise down with it.

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Respect My Authoritha!

[This message has been edited by Cartman (edited June 20, 2000).]

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Alpha: I see you use a Freeservers site; the 8m.com domain, to be exact. I use them as well (the iwarp.com domain).

In case you haven't noticed, Freeservers has an "anti-storage" code in effect that disallows remote server access to binary files. The only way to have us see that picture is to put it in an HTML document on the server & then link us to that. Or, link us to an HTML page on the server & THEN link us to the picture throught said page.

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Cartman, I'd have to disagree with you. I'm the biggest freak'n DS9 fan around these here parts and well, I'd have to say starting from "Before and After" at the end of Voyager's season 3 - Voyager has just kicked ass!

Even more so in the last year and a half (I've only seen up to "Pathfinder")

What about these episodes:

Infinite Regress
Thirty Days
Timeless
Gravity
Course: Oblivion
Think Tank
Barge of the Dead
Riddles
Dragon's Teeth
Pathfinder.

to name a few.

Oh yeah there's been some crappy eps like:

Warhead
The Fight
Juggernaut
etc.

But Voyager's been going quite strongly.

I just personally think they should give Trek a rest for a few years, not go leaping into a fifth series.

Andrew

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"chocolate cherries allamanda" - Datura, Tori Amos

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Oh yeah! You just gotta love "Dragon's Teeth"!! After seeing that I find it very odd that we haven't seen any Intrepid class ships in the Dominion War kicking Jemmie a$$.

But it looks like Voyager (the Intrepid class) is a tough one to destroy. It can take quite a beating as seen in episodes like 'Timeless' and 'Year of Hell'.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

"Barge Of The Dead" bit ASS.

THE best VGR episode EVER for me (& in many ways, the best TREK episode) is "Distant Origin," the one with the Voth from s3. When I saw that one, I was blown away

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I missed Barge...

But the Voth ship was really cool! I was alone when I saw the episode for the first time, and I said: "WOW! Oh my GOD!" out loud when I saw that motherfu ship...

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited June 21, 2000).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I've had a little theory flying around for a while now, as to why we have never seen any more Intrepids (or after Inter Ama... in a courier role) is because after the dissapearence of the Voyager, Starfleet halted production on the entire Intrepid class project, because of fears of a fatal flaw with the class that lead to the destruction of the Voyager - only after contact with the Voyager in MIAB, did they again OK the production of more Intrepids - hence the Bellerophon.

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"chocolate cherries allamanda" - Datura, Tori Amos

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited June 22, 2000).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Oh, I don't know. I don't find it too hard to imagine that the wartime role of the Intrepid would be such that it seldom crossed our path.

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Wasn't it either Harry or Tom who said in an early (pre-7of9 era) episode that Voyager is a warship? I can remember hearing it in a conversation about crewquarters and a musical instrument.

Anyway I remember an episode about the Galaxy class which may have a fatal flaw, which could have lead to the decomissioning of the entire class. So putting the Intrepids out of order because of a posibile flaw that could destroy the ship sounds resonable.

On the other hand, Voyager disappeared in the Badlands. One mistake in there and BOOOOMM!!! But maybe that is to simple an explanation.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The reference for Voyager's "warshipness" (was it in "Parturition"?) goes something like this: Kim says the walls are too thin for clarinet playing, since one can hear everything through them. Paris then jokingly comments that the ship was "built for combat performance, not musical performance".

I wouldn't take that comment too seriously. It's obvious that Tom is making a joke. And the joke just wouldn't work if Tom had to say "built for exploration performance". There is no such thing in everyday English as "exploration performance", but "combat performance" is a household word (or pair of words).

And even if the ship was "built for combat performance", its primary mission could be one of collecting gaseous samples from giant planets, or carrying diplomats and other dignitaries to distant assignments. Combat performance would simply be one of the many design criteria that the ship would have to meet.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Still, I'd be a lot happier knowing an Intrepid is backing me up instead of a Miranda or Oberth Class when it comes to a serious fight.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :

No kidding. Voyager can take a pounding and it doesn't even scratch the paint. But a Miranda or Oberth takes a couple shots and POOF!

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It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Mirandas do quite well in battle, IIRC.

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June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"And as we all know, 454 Okudagrams equals an Okudapound." - Rick Sternbach

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Yeah, Miranda Classes do quite well in battles, as long as there are no Dominion/Breen/Borg ships present. Otherwise, I wouldn't be caught dead onboard a Miranda Class...

------------------
Cigar Girl- "Would you like to check my figures?"

James Bond- "I'm sure that they are very well rounded..."

The World is Not Enough

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

You wouldn't be caught dead in one because you probably wouldn't die in one.

We've seen lots of Mirandas in battles, indicating Starfleet's satisfaction with their performance in that area. In addition, when Mirandas are destroyed on-screen, it tends to be only after sustaining heavy damage, if the Defiant was any indication to the condition of its escorts in SoA.

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June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"And as we all know, 454 Okudagrams equals an Okudapound." - Rick Sternbach

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

On the other hand, we never see Miranda's that aren't destroyed onscreen.

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Okay, so what about Excelsiors?

Which would you choose? Intrepid or Excelsior?

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Sol: Have we seen any Mirandas destroyed in battle besides the Sitak, Majestic, and Saratoga?

Altair: I'd take the Excelsior. No risk of a cheese infection.

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June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"I love being British. We don't have to do any real work, we sit around looking smug, pointing at the US and saying 'We used to be young like that once.' Then we drink tea." - Liam Ka--thingy

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

I 'Tears of the Prophets' we see one getting schredded to pieces by several weapon platforms.

I REALLY hate seeing Excelsiors in these types of wars. They just don't look right.
Miranda's look absolutely great in a battle. I can even live with Galaxy's and Nebula's. But Excelsiors? No way! Have you you seen that one when the remote-battery-asteroid was blown up?

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

How quickly we forget poor Reliant.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

That was actually destroyed by the Genesis device, technically.