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Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

I think he summed things up quite nicely!!! *sigh* Why won't Berman just go away.......

“Frankly, I don’t think [the writers] really cared what happened at the end. Voyager has been the ugly step-child of the Star Trek family, and that’s the way we’ve been treated. We’re also the only show that’s had to carry a whole network [UPN] ....the ratings are down because it’s not being seen by as many people in the who could see ER….and then they took it out on us by saying 'This show’s no good. Let’s get it over with as quickly as possible so we can fix it for the next one.'“

“I was very disappointed [with 'Endgame'] ...from mid season onwards I kept waiting for them to start making a move towards wrapping up some of these story arcs, but they didn’t. They finally paste these things together in the last two episodes; stuff that was never set-up correctly to get the full dramatic effect. [Voyager] was meant to be about nine people on the ship, trying to get through some really extraordinary circumstances. Frankly, I’m not sure what it ended up being about.“

“[The writers] has a whole year to prepare, but they waited until the final two episodes to fix things. To me, that’s just a symptom of their uncaring cavalier attitude towards the show.“

“[In the final season] Janeway slowly became an even more obnoxious, domineering, self-righteous know-it-all. And really, that does not equate to any kind of character development. I also don’t like the way they treated [the characters of Tuvok, Kim and Neelix].“

“It was a wistful kind of sadness for me because that time was filled with unnecessary tension. They were manufacturing this huge ‘The end of Voyager’ thing. Sadly, Kate [Mulgrew] got caught up in it and decided she wasn’t going to have any fun. She made it way too difficult to work with her in the last couple of months of the show. She really felt that by doing it a certain way maybe she could have cured cancer, and totally forgot it’s just a TV show. Some people just have to build castles in the sky.“

“Most people seem to find my approach different and refreshing, and that’s why I get invited to conventions. I realize that there are some poor souls who really think that Gene Roddenberry is up there next to God, and take it as a personal affront if I say anything negative about Star Trek. But who in their right mind would ever get offended by an actor saying something critical about a TV show? I think most sane people can keep things in perspective.“

Advice to Jolene Blalock, Enterprise’s First Officer : “I don’t think it has anything to do with [your position on the ship]…you’re going to be in trouble if the writers don’t care about your character. Say what you feel, and let them know that you expect a certain quality. As long as you offer that quality yourself, you have every right to expect it from someone else.“

The full interview can be located in Issue #276 of Starburst Magazine

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

What I don't understand is, that we never hear about the time Beltran gave input to the show or confronted the staff with his feelings. Thats his mistake. Mabye he could of changed things.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

I'm glad he realizes what a waste Voyager was, and how much of a waste it didn't have to be.

I agree, why can't Berman and Bragga just go away...

Wes: It's not up to one actor to 'save the show.' He did his job as best as he could under the circumstances. It's TPTB's fault that Voyager was as bad as it was. Things got to a point rather quickly where there was nothing that was gonna change the fact that it was a lousy Trek series.

[ July 15, 2001: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]

Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :

Thing is, writers and producers go out of their way to avoid having to pay attention to actors' ideas. You need an extraordinary set of circumstances in order to affect any change. Shatner and Nimoy were often able to do it, but only by pretending to play off each other. This time the situation is different: you have one central character who has received a lot of publicity (first female Captain and all that guff), joined in the later season by cute babe in tight suit who's fucking Exec Producer; compared to that, the three Roberts - Beltran, Duncan MacNeill and Picardo, the most vocal about their dissatisfaction - didn't really get a look in.

One wonders if this Ensign Hoshi Sato character on Enterprise will get to do any more than Uhura ever did, and whether she'll be able to do anything about it. . .

Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :

Gone to Voyager.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Be Back in 5 minutes...

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

I agree wholeheartedly with what Beltran is saying. Out of all the characters, I think Chakotay was the most underused and the most wasted.

When Voyager premiered, Chakotay wasn't exactly my favorite character by any means, but I could recognize his potential: Here you are lost in space, surrounded by all this advanced technology, but in the end it's actually the spirituality that becomes more important. I thought that Chakotay would teach the others to extend themselves beyond the physical world to find the answers. He even did this with Janeway at the beginning when he showed her the vision quest. I originally thought that this was how Voyager would be set apart from the previous Trek series.

But then not long after, all of this was forgotten, and Chakotay became nothing more than a Riker-clone and a metaphorical punching bag for Janeway's decisions. And the spiritual tone was deleted in favor of returning to that technobabble crap which may again be prevalent in Enterprise. Haven't TPTB yet realized that the viewing audience doesn't need lenghty bullshit explanations for how things work? (Sorry, that's an argument for another day)

I do have one question, however. If Beltran was so dissatisfied, why didn't he just leave? (besides the fact that he'd no longer have a steady paycheck and other producers might not be forming a line at his front door...maybe I just answered my own question) But seriously though, threatening to leave unless the character was written better is not an unheard of thing.

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Two Words: Denise Crosby.

Y'know, the guys who run the show ADMIT that they didn't do a good job writing for Chakotay... so at least they understand the fact.

Something else I heard... perhaps nine people is too many for an ensemble cast, every one of which should be focused on from time to time.

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Re: Lee's comments on the Roberts: McNeil's always been fairly positive about things, and Picardo is on record as saying how much better Braga was than Biller. To be honest, Beltran is pretty alone in his feelings, or at least the rest of the cast don't have the guts to pipe up and echo them.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

"Biller"?

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Biller, as in Kenneth, as in Braga's season 7 fill-in who served as Voyager's Executive Producer while Braga developed Enterprise.

Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :

I just cant see where they are coming from. I enjoyed Voyager.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

Well, I just read Garrett Wang's interview in ST: The Magazine. He said he had to nag the producers for episodes like Timeless.

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: Michael_T ]

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wes1701E:
I just cant see where they are coming from. I enjoyed Voyager.

Voyager did have a few good episodes, but, IMHO, Voyager as a whole sucked major ass. Part of the problem, besides for dumbass writers, was that it was on UPN. If the producers honestly thought that one show would keep up a network that runs on crap like Sabrina the Teenage Which, Girlfrends, and The Parkers should be checked out for delusions of grandure. UPN can not be saved. If it simply stayed on Fox, I think things would have been at least slightly better for Voyager.

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: MIB ]

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

If Voyager were on Fox, we'd see the characters wearing less clothing and more sexual tension with bitch-fighting in between every season. Kim would be out of the closet, Seven & Chakotay would have those bedroom scenes, Neelix would actually be a good cook, and Janeway will be the redhead version of the bitch from hell.

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

TNG and DS9 were on Fox and they didn't turn out like that.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Er, weren't TNG and DS9 syndicated? I'm not 100% up on how US television works, but I thought synidcated shows weren't made for any network in particular, and so didn't have to listen to any of them.

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

You are correct, I think.

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Although everyone is entitled to an opinion (some silly democratic rule or other...), I'm wondering why anyone would pay much attention to Beltran's. What marvelous other roles has he played? Where are his Oscars? Emmys?

If he had better writing talent than the staff, he should have submitted. But he is what I refer to as a "technician" actor - comes in, reads his parts, job done, goes home.

Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :

Yep, TNG and DS9 were syndicated, although Deep Space 9 was originally part of this Primetime Entertainment thing that had no useless purpose as far as I know. The Next Generation first ran down here on what would become the WB affiliate ten years later. Deep Space 9 first ran down here on what would become the UPN affiliate about five years later.

TNG is now going to rerun national on TNN (The NATIONAL Network ) this year with DS9 starting up in 2003 and Voyager in 2005 (I think those years are right). Some local independent stations still have the right to air the TNG reruns, I think. I know our local independent KTBU is still airing TNG twice a day will no plans to drop it after TNN starts airing them.

I know that in some areas there were FOX stations airing Deep Space 9. I think that was just a case of that particular station buying into the syndication and airing the episodes in their local programming slots.

Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :

Those dates sound correct from my memory on what the Star Trek site has. But I'm not as lucky as you are Seigfried since the UPN station here in Los Angeles only airs the reruns of DS9 and Voyager. They completely stop airing the TNG episodes during the middle seasons of Voyager.

Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :

Of course voyager had to run into the borg. about the only thing STAR TREK in the whole series. except for those damn ugly saucer-ships at least the defiant was a nice little ship. other than that, ship after ship those guys thought up had a saucer with the bridge right smack in the middle. Can you say target? and they all look the same. put any two desings side by side (except the holy defiant) and you can instantly see the basic similarities. romulan and klingon two. but klingon ships are cool so i won't rat on them. i hope the next trek series has a little CREATIVITY. the tie fighters in Star Wars are bad too.

Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :

Ooooookay, it's something called design lineage...

What does this have to do with the topic, anyway?

Posted by MIB (Member # 426) on :

Basically, in this thread, are agreeing with what Beltran said and we are talking about why Voyager sucked so bad for the thousandnth time.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Yeah. But, er, how did we get from that to the slightly strange complaint that "all TIE Fighters look similar"?

Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :

they are similar. basic pod with two solar panels. if we used design lineage for real spacecraft. we'd still have big, multistage rockets. not things like the space shuttle. or the new ones that are being drawn up. like the x-33.(now cancelled) i still would like to see some design's other then the saucer and stuff.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

So we've apparently gotten into an argument about how people shouldn't use their highly recongisible iconic designs for ships? If we want an arguement about that, let's make a new thread, eh?

Anyway, the counter arugment is Episode 1 ships. Nyah.

Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :

Last reply to design lineage topic...I promise.

I'll start a new one if the topic continues...

if we used design lineage for real spacecraft. we'd still have big, multistage rockets. not things like the space shuttle

A rocket does not have the same purpose as the space shuttle (reusable vehicle). Rockets today look similar to rockets of the past.

If your creation has the same purpose as a previous object, it will probably look similar. A truck in the 50s has the same layout as a brand new 2001 model, but I wouldn't say they all look alike.

Besides...how does the Enterprise, NCC-1701, look exactly the same as the Enterprise, NCC-1701-D? Because they have a saucer?

And I suppose all submarines, trucks, ships with sails, ocean liners, rifles, hand guns, personal computers, calculators, microwave ovens, sedans, space probes, and aircraft carriers look alike to you.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

They do to the genereal public who don't care about that sort of thing. Most people don't even realise that the different Enterprises look different (although the NX-01 does look the most individual).

Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :

whatever, i just think that a little more creativity is in order. my opinion. if you don't like it then don't read it.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Well, it's a bit hard to tell if you like the opinion before you read it.

Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :

well, let me put it this way. if you don't agree with my opinion. then shove it.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Or, you could try being polite.

Posted by Commander Paris (Member # 119) on :

quote:

Of course voyager had to run into the borg. about the only thing STAR TREK in the whole series. except for those damn ugly saucer-ships at least the defiant was a nice little ship. other than that, ship after ship those guys thought up had a saucer with the bridge right smack in the middle. Can you say target? and they all look the same. put any two desings side by side (except the holy defiant) and you can instantly see the basic similarities. romulan and klingon two. but klingon ships are cool so i won't rat on them. i hope the next trek series has a little CREATIVITY. the tie fighters in Star Wars are bad too.

This is the same tired argument that I thought was put to rest a long time ago. Like someone said before, the saucer is design lineage. It's basically what identifies Starfleet ships.

The bridge being a target was thought up one day, and seems to be used to just bash Trek now by people who are a little ignorant. The kind who think "Trek is so boring, they talk too much. It needs more cool explosions to be good." Some people seem to think that because Star Trek is in space it's supposed to be full of battles. The truth is that Roddenberry's idea for Trek was "good dramam, covered up by sci-fi." It's about humanity, not finding the best way to blow something up.

Creativity? If Star Trek wasn't creative, then the original Enterprise would have either been the classic flying saucer or rocket ship. Every design has originality, but you can see the relationship to it's sister ships. That's the point, to be albe to look at a ship and know if it's Klingon or Starfleet.

I guess this has turned into a rant, but you see my point. Some people seem to misinterpret Trek, and those people seem to be the really loud ones.

Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :

polite. now there's something i havn't tried. OH THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!! is that polite?

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

*sobs* I'd even put in a little smilie.

Anyway, Commander Paris is right. Visual identity is very important. The general public might not be able to tell a Galaxy-class from a Constitution, but they can still tell if a ship's from Star Trek or not. Likewise, most people can identify a TIE Fighter. They aren't so much ships, as visual icons for the show. People want something fresh, yes, but not too different. (Look at Star Wars, and the lukewarm reaction most of the episode 1 ships got. The one most liked was Darth Maul's, which had a lot in common with a TIE Fighter). And for the general public, Star Trek = Enterprise = ship with saucer. By abandoning the secondary hull, they're already created a ship that will look radically different to a lot of casual fans who have no idea about the Akira (and other FC-CGI ships), but it's still close enough that they can tell what it is.

Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :

quote:
Of course voyager had to run into the borg. about the only thing STAR TREK in the whole series. except for those damn ugly saucer-ships at least the defiant was a nice little ship. other than that, ship after ship those guys thought up had a saucer with the bridge right smack in the middle. Can you say target? and they all look the same. put any two desings side by side (except the holy defiant) and you can instantly see the basic similarities. romulan and klingon two. but klingon ships are cool so i won't rat on them. i hope the next trek series has a little CREATIVITY. the tie fighters in Star Wars are bad too.

So only the Defiant is cool.. because it blows stuff up? Actually I like the Defiant being the exception, because thats why I dont watch sh*tty science fiction where all that happens is stuff getting blown up and the only design lineage is to see how many more mega-turbo-blasters you can fit on a new ship.
And i would gladly fly in a starship with the bridge on top.. because if i went into space, it would be to explore, not to fight things. I realize that there might still be fights, but part of the hopeful mentality of Trek is that in the the future, people wont have to fight and people like you who only want to see things shooting may not exist anymore. Go watch some cartoons. The people on the bridge are safe when the ship turns into a giant robot and punches the 'bad guys' and everything flashes and looks real cool.

Next time, we will work on grammar, sentence fragments and capitalization