Apparently at one point in the scriptwriting, Data was supposed to be the new first officer.
Go back to the wedding reception scene. Picard is talking about how he'll have to train a new first officer. He says "You all know him...etc" and everyone turns and looks at DATA!
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
Riker was leaving the ship, so Data would be the new First Officer. They only needed a new one because Data died.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...And oddly, though Worf was still wearing Command Red, was not in consideration. This could have been a result of his adventures with Dax, where he was basically promised never to get a command, but this is PICARD we're talking about here...
Mark
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: ...And oddly, though Worf was still wearing Command Red, was not in consideration. This could have been a result of his adventures with Dax, where he was basically promised never to get a command, but this is PICARD we're talking about here...
Mark
As far as I'm concerned Worf wasn't considered because he was still an Ambassador, who was only on the Enterprise for the wedding. Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Yeah, I don't know why Picard didn't consider either Worf or LaForge as XO. And to be honest, I'm VERY surprised that Riker didn't snatch one of those two as his own XO.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, LaForge doesn't seem at all like the type who would give up engineering to be the first officer. And I don't think he could do both, since TNG and VOY presented the XO position as a full-time job.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i still think an XO could double up responsibilities, like Spock did, but i think that non-bridge departments would be excluded.. the Eng. or the CMO are non-bridge officers and probably not qualified.
Historically, Spock doubles as science and XO, and Number One in the Cage seemed to double as Helm and XO (although its unlikely the Mitchell was XO in WNMHGB, it seems it would be possible to navigate and XO at the same time)..
all said, i probably could see Worf doubling as tactical and XO, but then we never did figure if he was assigned to 1701E again or not.
Posted by aneurysm (Member # 906) on :
i agree with phoenix. i think its relatively reasonable to assume that worf was only there because the enterprise was escorting people to the wedding reception on betazed. although what bothers me is that starfleet would let its flagship be a part of all this ceremony. surely they would want it doing more worth while tasks?
Posted by Cartmaniac (Member # 256) on :
To be fair, the E-D didn't have a very stressful life either post-season two. So, yeah, I can buy the E-E temporarily serving as a glorified transport for the most decorated (?) crew in SF history, blah blah blah.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Especially seeing as they were going to the wedding of a Daughter of the Fifth House, Eventual Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yeah, but the Sacred Chalice of Rixx is just a moldy old pot, anyway.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Hmm... double post. Haven't done that in a while.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
You wanna tell Lwaxana that, or shall I?
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: i still think an XO could double up responsibilities, like Spock did, but i think that non-bridge departments would be excluded.. the Eng. or the CMO are non-bridge officers and probably not qualified.
Historically, Spock doubles as science and XO, and Number One in the Cage seemed to double as Helm and XO (although its unlikely the Mitchell was XO in WNMHGB, it seems it would be possible to navigate and XO at the same time)..
all said, i probably could see Worf doubling as tactical and XO, but then we never did figure if he was assigned to 1701E again or not.
But there are other department heads who ARE certified to be command officers. Scotty sat the center seat in several TOS episodes. Chief Engineer Logan in TNG (S1) tried to talk Geordi into turning the bridge over to HIM, so it stands to reason that he was certified.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1:
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: i still think an XO could double up responsibilities, like Spock did, but i think that non-bridge departments would be excluded.. the Eng. or the CMO are non-bridge officers and probably not qualified.
Historically, Spock doubles as science and XO, and Number One in the Cage seemed to double as Helm and XO (although its unlikely the Mitchell was XO in WNMHGB, it seems it would be possible to navigate and XO at the same time)..
all said, i probably could see Worf doubling as tactical and XO, but then we never did figure if he was assigned to 1701E again or not.
But there are other department heads who ARE certified to be command officers. Scotty sat the center seat in several TOS episodes. Chief Engineer Logan in TNG (S1) tried to talk Geordi into turning the bridge over to HIM, so it stands to reason that he was certified.
Its called the "bridge officers' test", and since we are stating the obvious here, lets not forget Troi and Crusher are certified for bridge command...
...and Logan wasn't certified, he was just higher ranked than Geordi and was trying to flex his muscles...for that matter Geordi wasn't certified as he was still an ensign...
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
non-canonically, Scotty being the second officer was dealt with in a few comic adventures during the TMP-TWOK runs at DC and Marvel.. basically, he ceded the position to Sulu since it was a strain on being in charge of the bridge and being in charge of the engines
and theres a big difference between being XO and simply taking center seat on occasion.. the XO and captain must collaborate on all personnel evaluation and discipline matters, same as any job, and also plan the course of the missions and many other nuances dealing with the overall quality of the ship's service.. the person with the conn simply commands for a shift.. i'm sure that if Scotty were actually in a position to be made XO, there would be a conflict of arrangements since as engineer, he simply wouldnt have time to deal with the extraneous personnel duties we saw Riker and Chakotay deal with, however, we know that Spock as science officer seemed to have the spare time to also coordinate his duties of having ther department heads roport to him as well
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:for that matter Geordi wasn't certified as he was still an ensign...
Geordi wasn't an ensign in "Arsenal of Freedom". He and Worf were BOTH lieutenant (j.g.).
I think that the "Bridge Officer's Test" is only required for those who are NOT line officers: i.e., medical and other staff positions. Personally, I think it's a stupid idea. The Chief Medical Officer has no position commanding a ship. There's a lot more to running a starship than anything that can be summed up in a "Bridge Officer's Test."
quote:Well, LaForge doesn't seem at all like the type who would give up engineering to be the first officer. And I don't think he could do both, since TNG and VOY presented the XO position as a full-time job.
Geordi ISN'T Scotty. Geordi is not as attached to the post as Scotty was. If offered the opportunity, I believe Geordi would leave Engineering to someone else and step up to the XO post. Besides, we've seen at least one possible future where Geordi HAS left Engineering for command opportunities.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1:
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: i still think an XO could double up responsibilities, like Spock did, but i think that non-bridge departments would be excluded.. the Eng. or the CMO are non-bridge officers and probably not qualified.
Historically, Spock doubles as science and XO, and Number One in the Cage seemed to double as Helm and XO (although its unlikely the Mitchell was XO in WNMHGB, it seems it would be possible to navigate and XO at the same time)..
all said, i probably could see Worf doubling as tactical and XO, but then we never did figure if he was assigned to 1701E again or not.
But there are other department heads who ARE certified to be command officers. Scotty sat the center seat in several TOS episodes. Chief Engineer Logan in TNG (S1) tried to talk Geordi into turning the bridge over to HIM, so it stands to reason that he was certified.
Its called the "bridge officers' test", and since we are stating the obvious here, lets not forget Troi and Crusher are certified for bridge command...
...and Logan wasn't certified, he was just higher ranked than Geordi and was trying to flex his muscles...for that matter Geordi wasn't certified as he was still an ensign...
Somehow I doubt that Picard would have left someone in charge who was not "legally" allowed (ie, certified) to be in charge. Starfleet would have his ass.
BTW: IIRC, Geordi was a Lt, not an Ensign.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Beat you to it, Darkwing! LaForge was a lieutenant (j.g.).
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Regardless to the minutia of Geordi's rank...its only goes as far as the fact that he was the highest ranking bridge officer, and he had the conn, which I think somehow differs from actually being certified to be the ships captain or XO. Ensign Kim was a bridge officer and had the conn a number of times, but he was a lowly ensign...
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Geordi really would make a great CO. Being a star Trek chief engineer seems to resemble being head chef of a large scale restaurant kitchen crew, you have to ride'em hard and come down like a ton of bricks if someone doesn't come through. If you can handle that pressure and stress, there shouldn't be any obstacles to going up the ladder, unless you got some self-deprecating, sappy attachment to the engineering room.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Beat you to it, Darkwing! LaForge was a lieutenant (j.g.).
So I noticed!
Happens when you post as you read rather then reading everything then posting... Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
On a related note, is T'Pol the XO on the NX-01!? That would be strange considering the bad relationship between Earth and Vulcan, and her not actually holding any rank in Starfleet.
Two alternatives would be Trip as XO, or no XO at all.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Chef is XO. You wonder why you never see him? He's fucking exahusted.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The arrangement worked out between Earth and Vulcan would seem to include the recognition of ranks. Whether or not a Vulcan subcommander outranks a human commander is a question that has come up before. (I'm thinking most notably in the pilot.) Beyond that, I think what the good Captain said earlier holds true here. Tucker is definitely in the chain of command, but his duties in engineering mean T'Pol (who may or may not outrank him) gets to be de facto XO.
I suppose the interesting question is, if the mission had gone as originally planned, who would be the first officer? Tucker? The human science officer? Or someone else?
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
In the military, the XO is a full time job. Pretty much the same job as the Co as well.
Posted by Revanche (Member # 953) on :
And, in the Navy, ensigns can have command of the deck ('conn' in TOS), once they've taken and passed their conn officer and Officer of the Deck boards. Heck, more often than not, an ensign may even be CDO, where he is responsible for the ship when the CO is not available. That includes getting underway without the CO.
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