This has always bugged and confused me a lot, especially in TOS and the movies.
Are there any conclusive rules as to who did what on the TOS bridge? Who was in charge of security? And who was in charge of the ship's weapons? And did this change in the movies?
Let's just make a list of relevant officers..
Enterprise (NX-01)
Armory Officer: Handles ships's weapons and is chief of security.
Helm Officer: Handles helm and navigation.
There is no bridge-level Operations Manager, unless it's combined with one of the other positions (most likely candidates are the Captain or the XO (T'Pol)). Reed is also referred to as "Tactical Officer", most likely a synonym for AO, or perhaps a different role, with Reed being both AO and TO. ENT's system is pretty clear-cut.
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701(-A))
Helm Officer: Doubles as Security Chief. Also as tactical officer?
Navigator: I believe even navigators sounded Battle Stations and fired weapons?
Similarly, no indentifiable Operations Manager. The Science Officer is the XO, although in "The Cage", the Navigator was the XO.
The big question is: who did what in the Movies? What was Chekov's position? And what about Saavik, Sulu and Valeris?
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D)
Tactical officer/Security chief: A combined post on the Ent-D.
Flight Controller: Helm and navigation, like the NX-01 Helm Officer
Operations Manager: Some sort of accountant. Seems to be the de facto Science Officer.
The Voyager seems to follow the Ent-D's system pretty closely. I'll let DS9 be, because a partly civilian starbase is not comparable to an all-Starfleet starship.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:USS Enterprise (NCC-1701(-A))
Helm Officer: Doubles as Security Chief. Also as tactical officer? Navigator: I believe even navigators sounded Battle Stations and fired weapons?
The Helm officer doubliing as Security Chief may be particular to how Kirk ran his ship- or to Sulu- and not fleetwide policy.
I'd think any bridge officer could sound battlestations (or would you rather Ensign Newbie wakes up the Captain first when the Romulans/Borg/Giant hand pops up?).
Data's role as both Second Officer, Science Officer and Ops controller is established- seems like a LOT, but he doesn't need to fucking sleep so...
It's almost certainly split up on other starships.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
But wasn't Harry Kim also acting like a Science Officer on Voyager? Or did the resident Vulcan do that?
From "Balance of Terror":
"Call battle stations, Mr. Sulu."
That privilege is probably part of the Tactical/Security package.
Did the Navigator ever actually fire weapons or perform other non-Navigator activities?
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
TOS Movie Era: Chekov was security chief. He cleared Spock to come aboard in TMP. He sealed Spock's quarters in TSFS and gave security instructions in TUC.
This raises the odd question as to why didn't Chekov know firiing a phaser would set off the alarms in TUC?
Chekov also handled photon torpedoes in TMP and TWOK
I believe Chekov had the navigation position in TVH, TFF and TUC (Of course in TVH they were renegades and not on a Starfleet ship).
Saavik was Navigation. Valaris also seemed to be navigation (since she was supposed to be Saavik anyway it makes sense...) Now I wonder where Chekov sat in TUC before Kirk and McCoy went on trial.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Well - Sulu never served as chief of security, in TOS or the movies (with the exception of alternate-Sulu in Mirror Mirror). He served as tactical officer often, with controls of ships' weaponry through his console.
In the episode "Devil in the Dark", we saw a Lt. Commander Giotto who was refered to by Kirk as "chief of security."
If memory serves, Chekov was tactical officer and head of security in TMP, then back to navigator the next time we saw him actually assigned to Enterprise in Star Trek V.
So I would say that on the original Enterprise, tactical was the duty of the helmsman, with control redundancy through the navigation station. And with the exception of the odd-one-guest-shot red-shirt, the chief of security was often one of the red-shirts killed in the first five minutes of the show.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Fuck yeah, Chekov was "back to navigator" in STV! You want an officer with a history of mind control and brain damage as your Security Chief?!?
He shows his security "skills" in STVI. (mabye McCoy's little device couldn't repair everything....)
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
So the security chief in TOS is not a bridge officer?
Okay, so this is what I gather from the movies:
TMP
Helm: Sulu
Navigator: Ilia
Tactical/Security: Chekov
Chekov is also ordered to assemble the crew, manage Spock's Starfleet commission log *and* he controls the viewscreen. It seems like he is also Operations Manager.
TWOK
Helm: Sulu
Navigator: Saavik
Tactical/Security: Chekov (replacing some cadet)
TSFS/TVH At the end, Chekov's back in the Navigator seat.
TFF Back to TOS, it seems. Sulu fires a torpedo, and Chekov is the Navigator...
TUC Valeris introduces herself as the new helmsman. Chekov is still Navigator, and he is also the Tactical Officer.
So, Chekov went from navigator to chief tactical to executive officer, and then back to navigator. Sounds like demotion to me.. perhaps because of the trial in TVH? EDIT: Or perhaps it was because the brainworms. Just like keeping Picard/Locutus away from the Borg.
Who was in charge of security when Chekov went back to being a Navigator?
[ January 05, 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
In STV? No one: the shaip had a minimal compliment, so they may not have had a security chief (or that guy got killed taking the complex in "Paradise City".
It's just as likely that the Security Chief is just not on Alpha Shift- we almost never see the command staffs from the other two duty shifts.
It's quite possible that there was no Operations Officer position before TNG....or at least not as a critical element of the bridge crew. As starships got larger and coordinating many more onboard departments with the command staff became critical, the need would have arose.
Did Enterprise C have an Operations Officer?
Of note, Tactical Officer does not always include the Security Chief position (at least not on DS9). Daniels(?) did not seem to be Security Chief in Nemesis.
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
In TOS the USS Enterprise had a security chief:
Lt. Cdr. Giotto.
He was played by the same guy who played Commordore Wesley.
He appeared in "Devil in the Dark."
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
Yeah, and if you'd bothered reading the thread before responding to it, you'd see he was also mentioned.
Since I just saw "Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle" last night, imagine an Indian guy (from India) leaning out a truck window doing an Apu impersonation while giving the finger, "Thank you, come again."
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
Sorry, Snay. Hadn't noticed that part of the thread. Honest mistake.
Back on topic. It certainly would make sense in TOS for the navigator to double as weapons officer as he really didn't have much to do during non-warp flight operations.
As far as Sulu calling battle-stations... well traditionally the Officer of the Watch (the Captain doesn't stand a watch) sounds the alert on the orders of the CO. Redundancy is key in order so no mistakes or miss-hearings occur.
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
Was Sulu ever actually identified as a security chief in TOS? I only remember Mirror-him being in charge of security in the alternate universe. But I'm not a big expert on TOS.
Something I recall from old novels was that Gary Mitchell was Kirk's original XO, and Spock only got stuck with it, along with being Science Officer, after Mitchell was killed.
Marian
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What was Spock before he was Science Officer? Mascot? Obligatory Token Alien on the bridge? (Every Enterprise needs one, dontcha know?)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: Something I recall from old novels was that Gary Mitchell was Kirk's original XO, and Spock only got stuck with it, along with being Science Officer, after Mitchell was killed.
...which (as I know we've discussed before ) doesn't jive with the episode, since Spock wore command colors and Mitchell wore operations colors. See here. (Plus, Spock and Kirk acted like Captain and XO, playing chess together and having private conferences and what-not.)
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
They were dating.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Also, going back to the NX-01, the positions of XO seems to have either grown out of the situation that developed: simply put, there wasn't intended to be one (because Archer didn't have one when he left) but T'Pol, put on the bridge in the purely honourary position of Science Officer, acquired the mantle as a result of her argument with Tucker (when Archer was wounded) over who should take command.
As a result, you have the situation where a Second-in-Command exists, but more in terms of being in charge when the captain's absent, and the rest of the time having other duties such as Science Officer. But, consider:
"The Cage" - Number One occupies one of the two forward consoles, seemingly navigation. But was she the Navigator as well as XO, or was the Helm position still an all-in-one role (a la Mayweather) and that second seat at the fron console was simply the First Officer's Duty Station?
"WNMHGB" - I agree with Mim, Spock is definitely XO but also acts as Science Officer. This situation continues throughout TOS.
TMP - No mention of an official XO. Decker gets given the role after he relinquishes command. He's also briefly Science Officer before Spock turns up - but it's made plain this has nothing to do with him also being First Officer, they're just short-staffed. He's thus the only pure XO until Riker's time.
TOS - no XO position (before Spock assumes the role by relinquishing command) mentioned.
TFF/TUC - Back to normal, Spock is XO & SO.
TNG - XO has become an official position, usually in charge of many of the administrative duties involved in running a starship - crew evaluations and so forth. Riker and Chakotay, for example.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
My idea was that during TOS, any one of the senior officers could double up as XO.
So basically, for TOS, we now have this:
Helm Officer: Sulu.
Navigator: Supernumeraries, Chekov
Security Chief: Giotto
Most of the times, Sulu handled weapons. At least in TFF, the Navigator handled weapons (but that might be because the Helmsman was in custody and the Navigator was once Tactical Officer).
Are there any cases in wich the Navigator fired weapons?
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
It hink there are some in TOS, but I couldn't swear to it.
Marian
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"So the security chief in TOS is not a bridge officer?"
Well, why would he be? The only reason Reed, Worf, Tuvok have bridge positions is because they double as tactical officers. Since Sulu did that on the E-nil, Giotto would have no need to be on the bridge. There was probably a security office where he did his work.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
There was never a set Security Chief in TOS was there? I saw a bit of the start of the episode with Abraham Lincoln coming on board and there was a Security Chief presented to him, along with Scott and Spock.
Posted by Trimm (Member # 865) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harry: Are there any cases in wich the Navigator fired weapons?
It seems that Chekov was the one doing the shooting at the end of ST6
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
That reminds me of the old TOS games by Interplay (25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites) where Sulu goes, "Raising shields!" and Chekov says, "Arming weapons (or maybe it was veapons)" at the touch of a key.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Ohhhh, those were good games.
As for Ops in TOS, Communications seemed to serve a potentially similar purpose of organizing stuff going on across the ship.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
When I said TFF in my previous post, I of course meant to say TUC.
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
In TNG, the XO always seemed like an amalgamation of the TOS XO duties (runing the ship when the captain isn't present, giving direct command advice etc.), the yeoman's duties (organising personnel, assisting the captain in 'red tape' duties etc.), and some communications duties (stuff going on across the ship, damage reports etc.).
Obviously, Starfleet was streamlining the bridge operations of their ships, as evident with navigation becomeing an appartly computer-assisted job.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: There was never a set Security Chief in TOS was there? I saw a bit of the start of the episode with Abraham Lincoln coming on board and there was a Security Chief presented to him, along with Scott and Spock.
Umm, its only been said 2 or 3 times that there was a Security Chief in TOS.
Two, in fact, were specifically identified as such: Kelowitz and Giotto. However, they only appeared in the Season 1.
As far as TOS Navigators...in "The Corbomite Maneuver" Bailey was coordinating with battle drills and was even told by Kirk: "Mr. Bailey, lock phasers!".
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: which (as I know we've discussed before ) doesn't jive with the episode, since Spock wore command colors and Mitchell wore operations colors.
Actually, it does jive with the episode. Unless the definition of "jive" has done a 180 degree turn when I haven't been looking.
Posted by Curzon Dax (Member # 1481) on :
Still what has always bugged me is the lack of enlisted personel in Trek. The only two that I can remember with clarity are Chief DeFalco and of course Chief O'Brian. Does the Big-E have a Chief of the boat so to speak. Who does all the grunt work on the ships. There must be "ordinary seamen" in the ranks. If there is only officers on the ships, my goddess, the academy must mass produce them like Hondas. Opinions, comments?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
There was Simon Tarsas, the medical technician from the E-D. But i would surmise that all those people in uniform without the rank pips are the enlisted (well most of them).
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Roddenberry was of the opinion that all the people in TOS were officers, wasn't he? Big silly man that he is.
There were several people identified in TNG as "crewman", and we can probably assume that they were enlisted.
Posted by Curzon Dax (Member # 1481) on :
Chief O'Brian wore chevrons in DS9. I also assume that those shots in ST-VI where you see the crewmen sleeping in bunks, those were enlisted pukes. Still for the next series it would be great to have one of the characters be a salty Irish or British tar that is a senior chief who every so often gets to put a officer in thier place and save the ship too. Not a Scotty per say but something along the lines of a Hornbloweresc or a Sharpesc enlisted man.
:{)
quote:Originally posted by Dat: There was Simon Tarsas, the medical technician from the E-D. But i would surmise that all those people in uniform without the rank pips are the enlisted (well most of them).
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So O'Brien, then, only more stereotypical?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Groundskeeper Willie in space.
Posted by Curzon Dax (Member # 1481) on :
Naw only if he allowed to smoke a cigar on duty, kinda like Clint Heartbreak Ridge.
:{)
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: So O'Brien, then, only more stereotypical?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) doesn't jive with the episode, since Spock wore command colors and Mitchell wore operations colors. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)