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Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Riiight. Ever seen "Mirror, Mirror"?

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Once or twice. That's why I thought it was funny, since those are the only times i can think of, offhand, of Vulcans being 'evil'.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
That, and most of the Vulcan-related episodes of "Enterprise".
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Well, for those values of evil that overlap with "doesn't agree with us."

(Draw your own contemporary geopolitical parallels, I guess.)
 

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
DS9 too. Although less "evil", and more "smug self-rightious bastards".
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, okay. My point was that they were portrayed unfavorably. "Evil" being defined, in this instance, to include "generally disagreeable".
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
True enough. An Enterprise episode where the Vulcans say "Hey, don't go there because the following bad things will happen," and then they (humans) go there and those bad things do indeed occur would be neat.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I think that sums up most of season one.
Though the Vulcan "doom-n-gloom" thing was not too specific.
 

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Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
 
The kind of evil I meant was more clear-cut, black-and-white type of evil. you know, the moustache-twirling kind. that episode was funny because Tuvok was overly dramatic in his evilness.
 

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Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
 
WAHT TEH FUKC!!?!

Im confused, mirror tuvokd didnt have GOATEE, but mirror spcok did!?!! someting not rite here!
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Sarcasm aside - I was going to say - we've never seen any Vulcans beside Mirror Spock with facial hair - and I was going to say - maybe that's a result of being half human - but then there was that Vulcan master that taught Tuvok when he was young and not in control of his emotions. Maybe, though he too was half human?
 

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Sybok too, and he was fully Vulcan.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Ahhh but everything in TFF is a shared dream between Kirk, Spock and McCoy while asleep at their camp-site. That's where you see them at the end - and the whole 'life is but a dream' motif throughout the movie. It works! Probably some weird Vulcan telepath thing brought about by McCoy's Bourbon and Beans!
 

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Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
 
hm -- deck 54 explained
 

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Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
 
That's the best thing I've heard all week, Andrew.

Ps@i:

quote:

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DS9 too. Although less "evil", and more "smug self-rightious bastards".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Futurama Guy:
WAHT TEH FUKC!!?!

Im confused, mirror tuvokd didnt have GOATEE, but mirror spcok did!?!! someting not rite here!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Yah... the Vulcans from the "TMOTTHS" moved and sat like androids. Hell... the very idea of them playing baseball at all was dumb.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Yah... the Vulcans from the "TMOTTHS" moved and sat like androids. Hell... the very idea of them playing baseball at all was dumb.

Tuvok was, in my opinion, a solid depiction of a Vulcan. Rigid, yet loyal and honorable. He was convinced that his way was usually the best way. But he had the occasional endearing quality too. Like being a badass martial artist.

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I agree the Vulcans in TMOTTH RUINED the episode for me.

Tim Russ did his homework and did the best Vulcan since Spock and Sarek. He had a lot of his mannerisms down-pat.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Russ did more than just imitate the others though: you could always tell when Neelix was getting on his nerves.

When he tells Neelix "Prahaps you should take a bath before meeting with the captain." you know he mentally added "you stinking disgusting scumbag".

[ February 10, 2005, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Heheheh yes, indeed it was more than just imitation - he had created a solid foundation of 'Vulcanism' set up by Nimoy and did a good job. Jolene Blalock also (mostly) does a good Vulcan too - pity so many find it fun to diss her acting - which is not too shabby. I mean look at other Vulcans. Robin Curtis was just freaky and Kirsty Alley was craptacular. Kim Catrall was O.K. played Valeris a bit like a smart-arse school girl. Most of the Vulcans in DS9 were crap as well. Even that Maquis Vulcan chick that used Quark. Robin Curtis again as Tarella I think it ended up she was supposed to be Vulcan - not that great again. As mentioned the Vulcan crew in TMOTTH was just wrong. Selar was O.K. if a little TOO extreme as a Vulcan - Susie Plackson was WAY better as Key'lar. Of course Sarek was perfect as Spock's father. Soval has been well played by Gary Graham. Sybok was just crud. Vorik was so-so - why didn't they just name him the same character as the Vulcan that he was on TNG's "Lower Decks"?

Best would be Spock -> Sarek -> Tuvok -> T'Pol
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
People don't like Kirstie Alley in Wrath of Khan? The world grows a little colder each day.

I'd also express some curiosity over the definition of "freaky" in this context, but I think I'll leave it alone.
 

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Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
 
I've never liked Kirstie Alley, and it's not just because of her "religious" convictions, she's just too flakey and hysterical for my taste.

Her portrayal of a Vulcan was indifferent and nonchalant, "Hey, I lost my whole command, crew and ship to the Kobayashi Maru and I don't know what went wrong, pssh." Or "We should assume the ship is hostile if it doesn't answer. Oh look, we're being attacked and people are dying everywhere, whatever."

Just because your race is trained not to be affected by emotion doesn't mean that you shouldn't acknowledge the gravity of a situation or show confidence and commitment. Those are important leadership skills and the crew needs to see them.

I thought J.G Hertzler played a better Vulcan in the one minute of "Emissary" he was in than Alley did.

I also think Mark Lenard's Sarek felt more multi-layered and deep than Spock, at least in "Voyage Home".
There were so many subtle meanings and unspoken words in his short "Yes of course."-response to Spock, it's my favorite part of the movie.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
What religious convictions are those? Eat or be eaten? I actually always had a thing for Alley back when she was on Cheers. Her Vulcan portrayal was a little cold, but that could be chalked up to her being young at the time.
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
Her Vulcan portrayal was a whole lot better than Robin Curtis as Savvik.

Then Curtis showed back up as a Romulan spy. She was OK in that.
 

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Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
 
Remember that in the TWOK script Saavik was half-Romulan. It was supposed to be part of the character that her attempts at self-control were a little off.

I think of the two Alley did better acting the character, but Robin Curtis looked Vulcan, where Alley looked like a human with plastic ears. It's one of the pitfalls of trying to portray Vulcans; many people, no matter how good they are at acting, just don't have the right looks. Sarek's two aides in TNG "Sarek" are a perfect example. One of them looked like a Vulcan, and one of them could act. Unfortunately, it wasn't the same one...

I'd forgotton about the Vulcan ensign in TNG "Lower decks" though. He was good.


Marian
 

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Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
 
I actually think that, of all the Vulcans, Tim Russ gave the best performance. Even better than Spock. But I suppose that's because he had time to study up on playing a Vulcan. You could tell he worked hard on that. Kudos, Tim.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Y'know what's even worse than the Vulcans? The actors who play humans. I mean, come on, it seems like every one of them acts differently. Can't they learn from Shatner's original portrayal of a human?
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
You have to give credit to the characters who play humans though, think of all the make up and prostheses they have to wear.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
The Vulcan Judge Advocate at Worf's hearing (on DS9, of course) was nicely acted and believable.

Vulcans would, of course, make excellent judges.

The worst Vulcan portrayal would have to be the admiral in Conspiracy (though you could blame the parasite in him for his non-vulcan behavior).
 

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Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
 
Oddly enough, it is possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.


Marian
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
To whom do you refer, Marian?
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
I like to view the suffering of insults as the punishment those I disagree with must bear for being so obviously mistaken.
 

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Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TSN:
. Can't they learn from Shatner's original portrayal of a human?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bones McCoy:
I actually think that, of all the Vulcans, Tim Russ gave the best performance. Even better than Spock. But I suppose that's because he had time to study up on playing a Vulcan. You could tell he worked hard on that. Kudos, Tim.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MarianLH:
Oddly enough, it is possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.

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Where's the fun in that?
 

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