So the Gorn are kind of unique as far as Star Trek aliens go in that they have the least amount of backstory provided. Or rather, they're the most "humanlike" aliens with the least backstory. By this I mean there were plenty of superpowerful energy things that just showed up out of nowhere and vanished just as quickly, but those are sort of in a different category, or so it seems to me.
And anyway, this sort of bugs me, because, like, even one-shot groups like the Sheliak or the Tzenkethi were provided with a "place" in the universe, in that they had a history that was at least alluded to.
(Possible interjection at this point: What about those First Federation cats? Uh. . .)
But I was thinking, the Temporal Cold War sort of provides an excuse for aliens to show up out of nowhere, do mean things, and then disappear again. So perhaps there is no "Gorn space" anywhere near the Federation, either spatially or temporally. Like, they could be like the spherebuilders and from some other universe, or the distant future or past; maybe even evolving right on Cestus III, if some blundering apes hadn't shown up and altered the environment. Sure, it's implied that they had a current territorial claim on Cestus III, but I wouldn't trust a Metron, personally.
Unless I'm misremembering and the Gorn captain said so himself. But, uh, maybe he was lying! Yeah.
Though I hear there was a Gorn mention in a recent Enterprise episode.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
And I guess I should also make the distinction: least backstory for a roughly Federation-level species that recieved a name and played a sizable part in an episode. To exclude various background aliens with names no one outside the makeup department knows about.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Assuming Gorn Territory to be near (formerly claimed by the Gorn) Cestus Three (which is still several months warp travel from DS9) it's possible that the Gornhold a territory that's still on the outskirts of Federation space and Starfleet has little dealings with them.
There'sa TNG Graphic novel with the Gorn explaining that the Enterprise E was sent to request their aid against the Dominion (explaining why the flagship did jack shit during the war). Unfortunately, the story was weak and the art sucked pretty bad. The Gorn get zero update from TOS and even wear pretty much the same oufits (though some color variation is provided to distinguish characters.
Data kicks a room full of Gorn warriors' asses easily- that's pretty unlikley IMHO.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Though I hear there was a Gorn mention in a recent Enterprise episode."
Last week's. The Orion captain talks about having had dealings with Gorn, but "the less said about them, the better".
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Isn't mirror Archer going to wrestle the Gorn onboard the USS Defiant?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
After he punts a Melkotian out the airlock.
Posted by Wee Bairns (Member # 1324) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge: Isn't mirror Archer going to wrestle the Gorn onboard the USS Defiant?
Yes he is. And it'sentirely CGI except for an arm that was built for closeups.
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
oops.... sorry.....
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
The Gorn never had that much story potential due to their un-human appearance. Even Al Pacino couldn't convey anything meaningfull in that makeup. Similar problem with 8472, the only interaction thay had with the characters of Voyager was when they were disguised as humans, so unless they want to rip of V and have them with human skin on (actually, that'd be pretty good if not for copyright restrictions!) they won't be showing up in anything other than viewscreen posturing. On another note, i've never paid much attention to Enterprise but tried to catch an ep the other week, but found the way it was filmed to make it completely unwatchable, do they use another kind of camera or something when filming to make it appear different? or is it just shite?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Idiot.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Now, now... Don't be too harsh. I think this is the first time he's posted in a thread that he didn't start.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Idiot.
Seconded.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Hang on, aren't you the king of the "don't me needlessly rude to newer members" brigade?
I don't think that Enterprise is shot differently. Possibly it's a different filter-to-make-it-look-like-film being used on the video, but nothing really sticks out. In any event, Trek's filming style is fairly conservative and possibly out of date (I think it was David Gerrold who pointed out the oddness of tension being generated in TNG by having two main look mildly concerned at something off camera).
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Needless?
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: The Gorn never had that much story potential due to their un-human appearance.
quote:On another note, i've never paid much attention to Enterprise but tried to catch an ep the other week, but found the way it was filmed to make it completely unwatchable, do they use another kind of camera or something when filming to make it appear different? or is it just shite?
Besides, I'm only getting my boy Jason's back. And he's really not that new. But thank you for recognizing me as king. You frigging stand-up comedian, you.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
It was the 8472 comparison that drove me to call him an idiot.
Ever think that mabye species 8472 had limited potential because they're fucking mute when not masquarading as starfleet groundskeepers?
The Gorn on Enterprise is probably the toughest of the TOS aliens to update- after all, how do you make a rubber lizzard-man with bug yes plausable?
I love it when someone comes on, bashes Enterprise with "though I've never watched it, or even given it a chance, it's shit".
...and much thanks for having my back MMoM. (your usual cheque is in the mail).
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Not only the show, but the production staff as well. Retards, all of them.
Posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn (Member # 1490) on :
said many times that i've never seen Enterprise and were willing to be educated. Indeed how do you make 8472 and the Gorn plausable? that was my entire point as to why the Gorn are not featured. If the production staff and Enterprise is indeed up to scratch why is Trek dead, ratings speak for themselves. I'd share these views down at the local bar but would probably be beaten up for even admitting i like Star Trek or Sci Fi. As for you Aban, I wasn't expecting any negative comments from you! But as its clear that what you don't know about star trek could fill a book, and your only input into any post on here i've ever read is sarcastic or foul-mouthed nonesense, i can't say i'm suprised.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Writers and producers do not equal an entire production staff. My guess is that are quite a few talented people who work on the show. Set designers, costume designers, etc.
As for your critique on my posting behavior, not only are you wrong, but if you had ever ventured into a thread started by someone other than yourself before now, or if you had ever posted something that was anything more than your starkly one-sided opinion, you might see a bit more tolerance from me.
You never asked a question about how to make the Gorn plausible or interesting as recurring characters. That might have actually been discussion-worthy. You just said they sucked. Then made a joke about Al Pacino. Riot hour.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So he wouldn't expect a negative post from you, even though he claims to have never read a post where you weren't being mean and sarcastic?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Does my exclusion in that statement mean that he did expect a negative post from me or that he should have or that I'm nicer than Aban?
Because I'm not, you know.
hmmm...mabye he's just setting the stage for his becoming Aban's nemesis. May it involve a red-hot metal mask and referring to himself in the third person.
Posted by Shakaar (Member # 1782) on :
*jumps in* Fight fight! Ok... maybe everyone retreated to their own corners by now...
But back to that original thought by Jason: "So the Gorn are kind of unique as far as Star Trek aliens go in that they have the least amount of back story provided."
Now now, that's not true... I could easily apply the same to the Pakleds- perhaps their stupidity was all a coverstory, and it was really they that were interfering in the timeline! Just because we don't know where the Gorn homeworld is, doesn't mean that there's a time plot in the works...
I'm putting my foot down, no more time plots! Do you hear me whoever is going to write for the next series/movie???? I love all trek... well... cept for TOS and the animated series... mainly cause they were way before my time, (but someday I'll see them I'm sure) I really liked Enterprise too... and I never got how fans could be so cynical about it... People hated DS9 when it started, everyone denounced Voyager� and then everyone lambasted Enterprise- and it was all people that would just watch one or two episodes. Though� I�ve never heard of the camera as an excuse, that is laughable� but yes.. be nice to the new people, being nice to the new people is very good.
*ponders what he was talking about before* Ah yes, no more time plots� I think that was Enterprise�s great undoing� that and continuity- if it�s one thing we Trek fans will do, it�s nitpick. First� Timeplots. WHY?!?! The Suluban/Coldwar- that I was ok with, it was interesting� but then the ratings weren�t doing good, so they jumped into the Xindi/Spherebuilders with a second time plot that wasn�t related to the Suluban- and then after that it was Nazi/Non-Reman Devil people from some other time� and at that point even I was holding my head shouting for B&B to stop the insanity. On the DVD commentary Bragga chuckled and said that for cliffhangers they�d do some�n to throw people off and say wow, and then they�d figure out what the plot was going to be later on� *mutters things* The time plots to me just didn�t go together� they could have done a Xindi storyline with all the action and suspense, but with the �Future Guy� in the role and no sphere builders� and just delete the start of season four all together.
Second, that continuity. Why, if something is established already� do they up and contradict it? Either you like the Trill with bumpy heads, and use them later- or you up and make a new species that is similar but different with a new name, but you don�t just up and rewrite. Enterprise started out with a rewrite� Picard stated as a reason for watching a species develop before they make first contact, was that they did not do that with the Klingons, and it led to a war. But with Broken Bow- it is clear that they didn�t even have the opportunity to try and watch the Klingons, cause the Klingons landed on Earth first. �People should at least cite something like that instead of a camera angle.
And what is all this talk of Cestus III? That is a Bajoran colony world! �Bajoran shipping hired Cassidy Yates on that cargo run. You will have to pry Cestus III from my cold dead hands you Gorn!
Posted by Shakaar (Member # 1782) on :
Oh, and 8472 wasn't mute... they shreaked... I don't have a problem with shreaking... Tholians did it... Gorn hiss... Soligen dimentional creatures click... Xindi Aquatics wail and sonar... just as long as the translator works... with all of them- the translator certainly cannot work instantly, but given time- we'll know more from them.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Cestus III wasn't on Kasidy Yates' cargo run. It was where her brother lived.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: As for you Aban, I wasn't expecting any negative comments from you! But as its clear that what you don't know about star trek could fill a book, and your only input into any post on here i've ever read is sarcastic or foul-mouthed nonesense, i can't say i'm suprised.
Well, that is a shock, Aban skipped sarcasm enough once, but I only vaguely recall it.
I agree ST:E wasn't all that good, at least to me, but then again, what I do not know about trek could fill volumes.
And you should be surprised, just because you should be that you can almost type.
Posted by Home Decor and Gardening (Member # 239) on :
Seven months ago you responded to that.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I have noticed in nearly all Star Trek series that the alien races who looked completely non human didn't get alot of back story. I find that a little odd, since in a Galaxy filled with life forms, you think there would be more than a handful that didn't look humanoid. Sure thats in part due to the fact that it's expensive to create a convincing non human character with traditional make-up techniques and even CGI. Maybe if they cut some funds away from the technobabble department they'd make a species worth having a backstory. Star Wars has quite a few non humanoid aliens such as Whiphids, and Chevin, and Hutts, and Ssi-ruuk, And Ortolans, and Kitonaks, and Ithorians etc. I especially like the Ssi-Ruuk, they look like Velociraptors with tongues in thier nostrils. how inhuman is THAT!
As for Enterprise, it's not a bad show, T'Pols hot. That Asian chicks kinda cute, and those Andorian babes are sexy! the NX-01 looks more advanced than the NCC-1701, thats always kinda bothered me. What happened to the flatscreens in The 1701? But I guess thats what you get for making a modern prequel to an old tv series...
Posted by Home Decor and Gardening (Member # 239) on :
I always found it weird that the NX-01 Enterprise looked just like the Akira Class starship (except the nacelles turned down), even though it's supposed to be hundreds of years earlier.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I dunno if it's Canon, but i read that the Akira design team copied the design for the Nx-01, then again it still doesn't make sense since the NX-01 was created for the show AFTER the Akira was created.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Does anyone think that plant species from TAS could have been replicated well in modern day Trek?
Posted by Shakaar (Member # 1782) on :
Have I become such a feeble-minded leader that I now mistake our losses to the Pike City Pioneers to that of the Gorn? *L* *hangs head in shame*
Again, don�t get me wrong, I thought Enterprise had great moments, and was overall a good series.
The design of the Enterprise didn�t bother me at all� ship design can be pop up and then hide in the history books for centuries like the Daedalus and then the USS Pasture.
Enterprise had a lot of great moments too with the Vulcan story ark of how T�Pau started the second age of Surak, Soong and his Augments, more was learned of the Andorians and the Aenar- return of the Augment story and how the Klingons got smooth headed for a period in their history. I�m very happy that was explained� as I was very unhappy with the DS9 episode where they went back to the TOS time�. It was just a cute thing they did- that they did cause they had the technology to do, but that I feel they shouldn�t have done� Cause before that we could have written off TOS Klingons as having bad makeup in those early days and that they really looked like the Klingons we knew all along- but then in that episode they cemented that Klingons looked totally different and it was a matter that they didn�t talk about� So Enterprise often served to solve some plot problems that had been created before.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
For some reason I picture the Gorn eat a lot of Bananas. Maybe it's just that translator thing that the Gorn Captain was holding in "Arena".
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
The Gorn and the Tholians are two non-superbeing TOS aliens that were slighted in their back-story and development. Even now after ENT's run they still rank about the same in development.
Gorn: Showed up in TOS "Arena." They attacked Cestus III because the Federation put a colony on a world that the Gorn's claimed as their territory. Kirk and the Gorn captain fight for the entertainment of the Metron and both come away with a different point of view.
That was all the cannon mention of them until the DS9 episode where Cassidy gives Sisko a ball cap from the Pike City Pioneers who play on Cestus III. Apparently the dispute was settled and the Federation was allowed to keep the colony world.
Lastly Gorns were mentioned in two ENT episodes. The Orion captain mentions them in passing and we finally get to see one in the Mirror-Mirror episode. I thought that was a bit of a continuity error since first contact with the Gorns was made in Kirk's era (TOS: Arena). But, hey, it's the Mirror universe and stranger things have happened.
Tholians: They first appear in TOS: Tholian Web and were the main bad guys despite their brief on-screen appearance. That was the last time until ENT we ever see anything Tholian.
Tholians were mentioned at least twice on TNG and once on DS9 (that I can recall off the top of my head). Riker's father survived an attack by Tholians years earlier. K'eyler mentions that a war between the Federation and the Klingons could pull the Tholians into the conflict. On DS9 someone mentions (I think it was Cassidy Yates) a bolt of Tholian silk purchased or given from the Tholian ambassador.
On ENT we get to see Tholian ships attack the Enterprise and, again in the Mirror-Mirror episode we finally get to see a full-body Tholian shortly before he explodes.
No maps were shown. No locations were given save the commment about the Tholians being drawn into a Federation/Klingon war.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Tholians were all over DS9.
Also, what's going on here?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: For some reason I picture the Gorn eat a lot of Bananas. Maybe it's just that translator thing that the Gorn Captain was holding in "Arena".
Portable karaoke machine- just play "Hotel California" whenever they show ine GOrn in Arena and laugh your ass off... it works as well as his lines, anyway.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)