I am an old man - well, not that old - but I suspect older than many that post on Trek boards, so I hope you will forgive me for looking back on history.
When I was a boy in the early 60's I remember watching a marionette/puppet TV show called 'Space Patrol' on British TV. It has always stuck with me and helped foster my love of all things science and science fiction based.
I had a 'conversation' with a person that told me I was talking 'out of my arse', and no such show ever existed. He knew, because he was the same age as me, and had never heard of it.
Sadly, he should have watched more TV, a pastime that we constantly tell our children not to do - go figure.
The ship they had looked like the early ideas of a space station - a ring with a long, spindly, central core, like a spinning top.
Of course, this was in the day before the real world was in colour and everything was operated by steam, wires and strategically placed peices of chewing gum......lol
The reason for this post is really in the topic title.
This was a puppet show that had all of the Roddenberry ideals. But, these were present as a sci-fi show, long before Trek was aired.
It began, in concept, in 1961 and aired on British TV in 1962, Trek aired in the US in 1966.
The show featured a multi-racial crew, females in positions of power, a 'guardian' force made up of people that lived and worked on a spaceship. This was presented as "An innovative moral children's television series" for British children in the early 1960's. The show was set in the year 2100 - 150 years in the future, an unheard of timesacale in the 60's - 'Space 1999' thought that we would be living on the moon by the late 80's - by the late 60's, they also thought we would be wearing silver suits and flying 'mono-copters' by 2000.
So, this is my contention. Roddenberry 'lifted' Trek from a childrens show produced by the British in 1962. I am not suggesting that he 'stole' anything, but rather, his thinking was influenced by Space Patrol (it was aired in the US around 1963/4 under the title 'Planet Patrol' as there was already another show in the US at the time with the British title.
From the Space Patrol site:
"A future where mankind has made peaceful contact with other worlds, forming a United Galactic Organisation that works together for the continued harmony of all." Sound familiar?
No, is going to be my answer.
Posted by Mighty Blogger Snay (Member # 411) on :
I just held a vote and all of my Clone Trooper action figures sides with Simon.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Interesting.
I'd heard of Space Patrol, but never seen a site devoted to it or nuthin'. I suspect it'd be a stretch to call it Roddenberry's inspiration. Doesn't sound like it was too popular and I suspect he'd have been too busy with other things to watch and obscure British marionette show.
Just watched the Matt Jeffries tribute on the Generations disk. Some good insight I'd never seen before about the genesis of that show.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
"Professor Haggarty - part genius and part Irish madman."
Amazingly, I think I've actually seen this show...
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Being that it was a British show, I don't know how likely it was that Roddenberry would have seen it. The Space Patrol most USA residents would have known about that time was the Space Patrol starring Commander Corry, which started in 1950.
Seriously, if you want to know what the biggest cinematic inspiration was for Star Trek, just watch 1957's Forbidden Planet. The interplanetary cruiser, the trio of first officer, captain and "doc", exploring a strange bew world. The engineer who works miracles, etc. etc. Heck the first line in the film even uses the number 1701! heh
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: Heck the first line in the film even uses the number 1701! heh
Okay, I actually saw part of Forbidden Planet the other day, but I missed the beginning. Clue me in?
B.J.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
I forget the exact dialogue but they say something like "arriving at seventeen oh one" or something like that. My DVD of the film isn't accessible right now.
Posted by Zefram (Member # 1568) on :
Well, it was still the early/mid sixties when there was a bit more optimism about mankind's future and quite a bit of enthusiasm drummed up by the flegling space program. Since the idea of a "Galactic Organisation" designed to promote peace most likely arose from the concept of the United Nations, it's not unlikely that the creators of the British Space Patrol and Star Trek could independently come up with the same idea. That Roddenberry's UFP was inspired by the UN is supported by the UFP logo essentially consisting of the UN logo with the globe being replaced by a star field. Of course, I'm not certain when the UFP logo first appeared in an episode or movie, so it may have been an afterthought.
I think Roddenberry's official inspiration was supposed to be westerns--particularly Wagon Train--hence the employment of DeForest Kelly, a well known western actor.
Posted by Albertus (Member # 1635) on :
You have to admit, that the inclusion of women in positions of authority in Space Patrol, predates Trek.
Also, people suggest that he took his inspiration from 'Wagon Train'. I remember watching that show on UK TV when it was first aired. I am not saying that Roddenberry didn't get some influences from other shows, and shows like 'Wagon Train', 'Whiplash' and any number of 60's cowboy shows were an influence, but, I am suggesting that most of the major components of Trek, were seen in Space Patrol. And that he would, or could have seen that program.
This is not to detract from Trek, but it seem's that the idea of Trek had numerous forerunners.
And that the british show was not obscure, it was aired in the US.
The 'UN' references were included in the original puppet series.
Also, the marionette show was aired in the US as Planet Patrol not the earlier Space Patrol that MrNeutron mentioned.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
I still think Star Trek was originally, for all intents and purposes, "Forbidden Planet: The Series" Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
You know, this could actually be a subject at university: "Star Trek anthropology", perhaps?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by Albertus: And that the british show was not obscure, it was aired in the US.
That still doesn't mean Roddenberry ever watched it or even heard of it.
B.J.
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
Okay. Maybe some of the visual elements were influenced by other sci-fi shows... Not so sure about 1701, though... wasn't that the number on Matt Jeffries' airplane or something? Anyway, it's my understanding that Gene Roddenberry got his inspiration for Star Trek after witnessing the horrors of World War 2. He envisioned a world where there was no war, everyone was equal, etc. Now I'm not saying that spirit of optimism was a unique concept, but the fact that we're on a Star Trek forum, and not a 'Space Patrol' one, tends to imply there's something unique about the show in particular, and the franchise as a whole, that sets it apart. So whatever Roddenberry used for his inspiration, it's obvious he brought something else to it, something no-one can quite quantify.
Posted by Albertus (Member # 1635) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bones McCoy: ...So whatever Roddenberry used for his inspiration, it's obvious he brought something else to it, something no-one can quite quantify.
I agree whole-heartedly with that statement.
I think the point I was trying to make was that there were precedents for some of the 'unique' aspects of Star Trek that may have been an influence on Roddenberry's vision. So why not an 'obscure' British puppet show, aired in the US in the early 60's, that contains so many 'Trek-like' elements?
Posted by Bones McCoy (Member # 1480) on :
There were a lot of pre-Trek shows with Trek elements. There were a lot of post-Trek shows with a lot of Trek elements (among them a curious little show called 'Enterprise')
We can debate this for eternity without resolving it, because, ultimately, only Gene Roddenberry himself knew what his inspiration was. The point I was trying to make is that Star Trek is the benchmark for all the other shows. "Oh, that reminds me of when Geordi had holo-sex that one time..."
We compare everything else to Star Trek.
Besides, the 'Space Patrol' guy obviously went forward in time, swiped his idea from Roddenberry and came back in time, only to have Roddenberry watch his show and decide that a space show could work after all. It was a causality paradox. Case closed.
Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
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