Hi there my fellow Flarites. Have been managing to catch a fair amount of season 2 ST:TNG on SciFi here in Australia over the last few weeks (including part of season 1).
It's been a long time since I've really watched TNG. Infact I found myself watching a season 3 episode before this spate of Trek watching and it didn't sit well with me - out of the blue like that. However, watching the latter half of season "When the Bough Breaks" onwards through season 2, it felt like I was easing back into TNG more.
Season 1 and season 2 are a bit more... rough around the edges, and jumping straight back into the more 'polished' later seasons was a bit weird after many years of SG1, Atlantis, Universe, BSG etc. etc.
What I really had to add here was HOW GREAT is SEASON 2 TNG!?! Season 1 as we all know is complete rubbish - well the latter half of season 1 did get better but it just wasn't the TNG we all know and love. "The Neutral Zone", "We'll Always Have Paris" and "Conspiracy" probably being the strongest of those shows. Really, season 1 is very difficult to watch. Season 2 however...
BAM! With "The Child" I believe TNG started to find it's feet. I haven't managed to catch all the episodes but I think most of them have had that 'catch' in each one that makes you go - oooh yeah! "Elementary, Dear Data" worked thanks to Moriarty and Picard. Even in "The Child" Troi did a good job. These are weaker episodes though. I was really (re-)blown away by episodes such as "Contagion", "Time Squared", "Loud as a Whisper", "Pen Pals" and of course "Q Who". I didn't catch "Q Who" this time around but it's a good one and we all know it.
I even liked "The Royale". I missed "Measure of a Man". "The Schizoid Man" was a bit weak. "Emissary" hasn't come up yet - probably tomorrow but that's another strong ep. "Where Silence Has Lease" wasn't too bad - better than most season 1 episodes. Oh and today I saw "Up The Long Ladder". I rather bizarre episode that jumps all over the place. From Klingon Measels, to Riker getting busy with the 'tough-yet-hot' Bringloidi woman to the interesting Sci-Fi twist about the clones and their replicative fading topped off by the stereotyped Bringloidi with their Irish accents, whiskey drinking and feisty women-folk. It was a watchable episode, yet not great.
I think it's also interesting in these seasons to watch out for the differences and firsts for what will be set up for the years to come. All my years of putting season 2 down to being a "weak" season I feel is misplaced. It's thoroughly enjoyable and I highly recommend going back and watching some of season 2. Even all of it! There are some good episodes and some good writing.
P.S. I found one tid-bit to be interesting - the Programme Guide listed "Time Squared" as being "Time To The Second" - has anyone else called that episode in that way? I'd never realised it and actually kinda makes more sense! A nice play on words.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
I often consider season three to be a transitional period in which TNG cast the last vestiges of TOS camp and became a (relatively) serious program. Though I suppose early indications of maturity can be found in season 2. Incidentally, I always likes Conspiracy from season 1, its un-Trek like nature being a guilty pleasure for me.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:From Klingon Measels, to Riker getting busy with the 'tough-yet-hot' Bringloidi woman to the interesting Sci-Fi twist about the clones and their replicative fading topped off by the stereotyped Bringloidi with their Irish accents, whiskey drinking and feisty women-folk. It was a watchable episode, yet not great.
What is it with Americans and this childish, rose-tinted glasses view of the Irish? It cropped up again later in Voyager with those god awful holo-novel episodes. There was even a bit about the IRA actually winning somewhere in early TNG, which, as someone who grew up in a British military base at the height of the bombing campaigns, that was more than a little insulting.
I wouldn't mind so much if they'd actually portray Irish people as actual people and not like a bunch of characters out of some puerile fantasy world.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
This is why TV critics call it "Growing the Beard"; it's the point at which a show comes into its own. The namesake, of course, is obvious. Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I wouldn't mind so much if they'd actually portray Irish people as actual people and not like a bunch of characters out of some puerile fantasy world.
The interesting thing is that it works both ways. Granted this was from the 80's, but I remember an episode of "Are You Being Served?" where Mrs. Slocombe's rich American uncle was going to pay for her wedding. Said rich American uncle was a stereotypical Texas billionaire complete with cowboy boots, a ten-gallon hat, and an absolutely horrid impersonation of a Texas accent by someone who wasn't fooling anyone into thinking he wasn't just a British actor pretending to act like an American. I remember thinking, "is this how the English think all Americans look like and act like?"
And then, of course, we elected George W. Bush.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Actually, there was a time when that sort were the ones we'd most often encounter over here since they were the only ones with the money to afford the trip. I remember one of my old teachers telling a story of when he worked as a bellhop on some Cardiff hotel in the 30s and exactly that kind of person (complete with cowboy hat, boots and cigar) walked in and tipped him a ten pound note (a bloody small fortune at the time) for carrying his bags.
Even in my lifetime though, most Americans that are seen over here tend to be of the load, overweight, ignorant and chronically stupid variety. Mind you I live near to a number of touristy type places and most are Florida retirees on holiday that are attracted to such places. They're not as common as they used to be since the exchange rate went against their favour (obviously) but still, I'd take ten thick yank tourists over one Italian. Those buggers are a nightmare.
Of course we could talk all day about how cultural stereotypes are portrayed in the media. It's never representative because it can't be (though there's usually a grain of truth in there somewhere.) Still, the American view of the Irish appears to be total fantasy. Probably has something to do with...I suppose you could call it an immigrant's vague sense of nostalgia by-proxy. All those yanks you claim a proud Irish heritage but have even less of a real connection with Ireland as I do with Switzerland (my great-grandmother was Swiss) which is bugger all.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Even in my lifetime though, most Americans that are seen over here tend to be of the load, overweight, ignorant and chronically stupid variety. Mind you I live near to a number of touristy type places and most are Florida retirees on holiday that are attracted to such places. They're not as common as they used to be since the exchange rate went against their favour (obviously) but still, I'd take ten thick yank tourists over one Italian. Those buggers are a nightmare.
Wow. I really am sorry that you've been given such a bad impression of Americans based on what you've experienced. The sad truth is that if the exposure was indeed mostly from Florida retirees, then I completely understand your feeling and agree with you that they're the most obnoxious people on Earth aside from New Yorkers, who make up 50% of Florida retirees anyway (I know this because my parents moved to Florida after they retired. When I go to visit them, I can only stay for about two weeks tops before the Floridian retiree lifestyle around us drives me so nuts that I can't get on that plane home fast enough).
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I didn't say I was left with that impression of yanks. I know full well that tourists are a poor standard to judge an entire culture and you only tend to notice the loud and obnoxious ones. The quiet polite ones won't attract as much attention and so won't leave such an impression.
In broad cultural terms though, I think the initial "culture shock" from American visitors happened during WWII. My grandmother worked as a nurse at the time and she developed a distinct dislike for American soldiers on leave and the brand of damaged they caused that resulted in people ending up in hospital.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I know full well that tourists are a poor standard to judge an entire culture and you only tend to notice the loud and obnoxious ones.
I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know that. Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I didn't say I was left with that impression of yanks. I know full well that tourists are a poor standard to judge an entire culture and you only tend to notice the loud and obnoxious ones. The quiet polite ones won't attract as much attention and so won't leave such an impression.
In broad cultural terms though, I think the initial "culture shock" from American visitors happened during WWII. My grandmother worked as a nurse at the time and she developed a distinct dislike for American soldiers on leave and the brand of damaged they caused that resulted in people ending up in hospital.
i think the quiet ones (like me) tend to the smart former service members who remember things like blending into crowds to enjoy the trip & and avoid being a 'incident'
now mind you, i havent made any plans on travel overseas (i do, especially japan) but i think i'll book a tour as the best idea... unless one of you fools in englishland wants to help BE the tour for a quiet american explorer for a week or two? *giggles*
i mean, i want to do these things that i never got to do while in the Navy (visit Brittain or Japan or Aussyland) while i consider myself still young and reasonably ONLY 15 pounds over my Navy weight....
cause next year is the big 4-fucking-0 & i'm... worried... LOL
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I agree, I always thought that season 3 was the turning point - but having watched season 2 I was pleasently surprised at the quality of the episodes. I did catch Manhunt the otherday. What a disjointed episode!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Even in my lifetime though, most Americans that are seen over here tend to be of the load, overweight, ignorant and chronically stupid variety. Mind you I live near to a number of touristy type places and most are Florida retirees on holiday that are attracted to such places. They're not as common as they used to be since the exchange rate went against their favour (obviously) but still, I'd take ten thick yank tourists over one Italian. Those buggers are a nightmare.
Wow. I really am sorry that you've been given such a bad impression of Americans based on what you've experienced. The sad truth is that if the exposure was indeed mostly from Florida retirees, then I completely understand your feeling and agree with you that they're the most obnoxious people on Earth aside from New Yorkers, who make up 50% of Florida retirees anyway (I know this because my parents moved to Florida after they retired. When I go to visit them, I can only stay for about two weeks tops before the Floridian retiree lifestyle around us drives me so nuts that I can't get on that plane home fast enough).
Where are you visiting though? Fort Lauderdale is pretty geezer-free. Central Florida is all rednecks, so you must be visiting Orlando or the west-coast.
As to season 2, "The Child" is in my opinion, one of trek's very worst episodes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
"The Child" isn't GREAT but it's definitely better than "Justice", "Too Short a Season", "Code of Honour", "Angel One" or "The Last Outpost"!?!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The Last Outpost is seriously dreadful- the Ferengi are a bad joke and the Keeper is so obviously a young guy in makeup it's sad....add to that a set that makes TOS effects look good by comparison and the terrible (and obvious) staff-twirling scene taht's sped up....man, it's bad.
I'll go out on a limb and state that Dr. Pulaski was far better than the idiotic Dr. Crusher.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Pulaski was pretty awesome. She'd've been a much better moral compass for Picard than Crusher and Guinan.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I would have liked to see her as a counterpoint to Guinan...and really, what working environment is without some smart but abrasive person that will stick to their POV?
I liked her- BobW would have been soo much better with Pulaski instead of Crusher..
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Yeah, she totally would've gotten the sleep thing right away.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Exactly! My fondest desire when wayching BobW pt.2 is for Data to suddenly knock Crusher's head right off her shoulders and blame it on Locutus. Really- he could have said it was a security program the Borg initiated.
Personally, I feel TNG would have been much better overall if Lore had sucessfully replaced data back in season 1 and slowly learned not to be evil while hiding his emotions.
It would have explained that "You should be destroyed" comment to Armis after Tasha got killed.
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