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Only Behr, Wolfe and co. could pull of the Ferengi.

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
Just saw "Strange New World" - Archer's "Silicon Based Lifeform" line jarred a little with me - yeah make believe but, well weren't the very IDEA of the Horta just way out, and here Archer's using it as a rationalising tool - which Tucker under the Psychotropin effects seems to be able to accept!?!

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Scientists have postulated silicon-based life for decades. I believe the Horta was noteworthy for being intelligent, not silicon-based.
 

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Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
 
So long as the humans don't see the Romulans, first contact with them about this time would be sensible. After all, the Romulan War isn't too far off into the future at this point, right?

*Really must remember to get his Chronology book to college with him at some point*
 

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Indeed. And if we somehow don't meet (sorry, "encounter facelessly") the Romulans during the show even more hordes will scream about continuity violations, even though a Romulan War taking place entirely after 2157 or even circa 2180 would fit the vague line from "Balance of Terror" just fine.

[ March 14, 2002, 18:59: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
 

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Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
I reserve my opinion until i see the episode.

People can argue continuity -- but some forget that Ferengi made contact with US army in the 20th Century.

and if some of what is said true - and Archer doesn't know that they are Ferengi -- well then.. It's no different than the DS9 ep when Quark, Rom and Nog get captured in the 20th.

Where are the continuity criers where that's concerned??

It's the same shit over and over again.

I'm just going to enjoy Jeffery Combs and Ethan Phillips' return to ST.

And who knows?? The writing JUST may be good! So far.. I have only been disappointed once..

I didn't like the Boomer ep. I thought it sucked.. but thus far... Enterprise has FAR FAR FAR exceeded my expectations.. and for that.. I'm giving the writters, producers, directors, and the actors the benefit of the doubt.

Let's wait 'till we see the episode before we kill it!
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
They didn't know Romulans looked like Vulcans. Only way round that is if Archer-era Starfleet concealed this information for the sake of Human-Vulcan relations.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Or if they never saw a Romulan.
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Yeah, but first they meet Ferengi without knowing who they are, next they meet Romulans without knowing what they look like. It's clumsy and lazy, as Andrew said.
 

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Well, the spoilers are out now for the first act (and snippets of act 2) of "Acquisition" - check out TrekWeb. Doesn't seem as if there's anything objectionable there as far as contiuity goes, nor anything dramatically unsound. Of course, whether the episode is enjoyable or not won't be revealed on the basis of the first act alone.

Some observations, though. We're apparently going to get un-subtitled alienspeak here, which I like a lot. But the script also seems to have moments where we'd need subtitles to understand what's really going on. I wonder how the final version will turn out.

Also, the Ferengi may be old hats in this space piracy business, but they are still impressed by the propulsion technology of the NX-01. Which may cause a few eyebrows to rise among those of us who think the Ferengi got their own warp drive by buying it ("Little Green Men"). Did they buy upgrades, or how did their warp tech keep apace with Earth's later on? Or were the Ferengi actually capable of improving on the tech once they had bought it, dispelling yet another stereotype about them?

There's some dialogue about how the Ferengi find the humans alien-looking, but since that's not subtitled we can probably ignore it (some of the "translations" provided in the script are obviously faulty anyway, as if a different person wrote the Ferengispeak and the supposed translations). Since about 99% of the galaxy's humanoid species look pretty much like humans and unlike Ferengi, that piece of dialogue isn't very plausible. Or is NX-01 really the first alien ship to be plundered by the Ferengi?

No mention of the "Last Outpost" style energy whips in the script, which I don't consider a big loss. I wonder if the "rifle" mentioned there will be the one the Ferengi used in "The Magnificent Ferengi" (also seen in Romulan hands in "Improbable Cause"/"The Die is Cast", however)?

The ship we're going to see will not be a Marauder, that much is sure - there's only a four-man crew there. It could be the TNG-era Ferengi pod, though. That would minimize the continuity problems, since Picard would not have seen such a pod in the Battle of Maxia nor in "The Last Outpost", and thus couldn't connect the ships he did see with the Ferengi EVEN if he had had some dusty 200-yr-old reports for bedtime reading recently. And I have no problem with the Ferengi using the same ship designs for several centuries - it just supports the idea that they bought the tech in the first place and aren't too interested in upgrades unless they bring profit.

Timo Saloniemi
 

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Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Good analysis. I don't remember the Romulans using the Ferengi rifles (which, if it were in IC/TDiC, would have been the first appearance, earlier than TMF, and therefore they're more likely to be Romulan rifles, surely?), but I know they cropped up as other alien weapons in the Delta Quadrant. In the ep where the Voyager crew have dreams about fighting some alien war, "Memorial" was its name, or something like that. . .
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
I wonder if they are going to try and 'copy' the style of Ferengi language heard in "Little Green Men"?

And are they going to be wearing furs like the Season 1 TNG Ferengi? Or were those Ferengi just wearing them because they were poor?
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Furs might be a dress used by the Ferengi military (would "Merchant Marine", be a better term?), and not by pirates. My thoughts.
 

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Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
There had probably been a sale on furs in Ferengi space in 2363. However they were cheaply made and didnt hold up well for wearing. They tried to retuyrn them but, well, no refunds you know.
 

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Earlier spoilers said the energy whips were making a trumphant return, actually.
 

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Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
 
And this is why I am reserving my opinions about Enterprise until I see the entire first season.
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 

"Furs might be a dress used by the Ferengi military...and not by pirates."

There's a difference?
 

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Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Here's a tidbit that some people seem to have forgotten, from "Balance of Terror" --

The reason no one knew what the Romulans looked like was because they did not have visual transmission technology at the time!

Oops... did they have the usual viewscreen just the same as all the other shows?
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Again, where on earth does this come from? Spock says that there was no visual communication between Earth (and allies) and Romulan forces. How does this equate to them being unable to communicate, rather than being unwilling?
 

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Besides, how patently stupid is the idea that visual communications will be impossible in 150 years? I suppose people would want us to believe that every webcam got atomized in World War III or something.

[ March 15, 2002, 19:00: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
 

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Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
 
Wasn't it that the Romulans couldn't communicate visually?
 

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I'm pretty sure there was no indication of what was and was not possible. Merely what was actually done.
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
So much for being a "Master of Detail" ...
 

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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
For me whatever comes out of Spock's mouth in a conversation or spouting out facts, has to be the truth or close to it as you can get at that time. If Spock said that there was no face to face communications between Humans and Romulans, then there was no face to face communications between Humans and Romulans. Out of all the time he spouted calculations, and facts, he's going to mess this up? It was a war during the time of the founding of the Federation, everyone and their dog will know this by the 23rd century.

However lets fuck up the TOS, since one one will remember B.O.T.

I am not whining by the way, its just that you people are arguing over whether or not to take Spock's line seriously or not.
 

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Please endeavor to actually read what we bother to post.
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
But that would require him to not mindelessly bash Enterprise ...
 

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Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
I agree with Sol on this one -- his last post and his prior one to that.

I think that with the Romulans being as paranoid as they are - they weren't unwilling to show themselves to the human - it gives them a tactical and strategic advantage -- what better way to keep an eye on the humans than to have a Romulan spy double as a Vulcan.

The Vulcans seem pretty sneaking in this series... who's to say half these vulcans aren't romulan..???

Far fetched.. I know.. but, hey...

[ March 18, 2002, 18:08: Message edited by: Alshrim ]
 

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Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
 
Ah... in TNG's Data's Day we saw a Romulan playing a Vulcan ambassador...
 

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Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
 
Hmm.... This is tough. However, this does not necessarily denote a lack of continuity. I'd agree that it may have been mostly the Romulans' choice to not use visual communications. It would definitely keep an advantage in their court, especially the weakness of their heritage.

As for Ferengi, not knowing their name, though maybe knowing their face could also be an advantage. In TNG, they mention that they've known about the Ferengi for some time. They've even had dealings with the Ferengi. However since nobody saw their faces in their dealings, they could not match them up. If they had dealings with Ferengi, not knowing the name of their species, the puzzle pieces aren't put together as easily.

It is also conceivable (however cheap on the writers' part) that many of the records from that time were destroyed or lost (maybe as part of the Romulan war...). Incontinuity on the part of the Star Trek Storyline is unavoidable with such an expansive timeline. Besides, the comment a couple pages ago about Star Trek Fans wanting to see their favourite species is a true one. And Ferengi, though more the comic relief than anything, is still amongst the top species.

Remember, our first contact with the Klingons was a disasterous one, right?

[ March 21, 2002, 08:16: Message edited by: Saiyanman Benjita ]
 

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Uh, we've been over that topic. Whose to say it wasn't disasterous? It doesn't matter if Archer & Co. think it went okay, it matters if the Klingons are pretty resentful of humans.
 

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
If the episode is as funny as the promo, then I'm pretty sure it'll construe sufficient grounds for "recycling" the Ferengi.
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Andrew,

Chill the fuck out. It's already been made clear that Archer & Co. never learn that the aliens are called Ferengi.

And given the discrepencies between TNG's early portrayals of Ferengi, why aren't you yelling at Moore, Braga, and Behr for "runining continuity"?

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Exactly! I always wondered what the HELL happened to them. They almost did a 180 from TNG to DS9... people didnt pick at that...

i think people are just thirsty for more nitpick juice.
 

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Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
 
Some more questions.


IIRC, the Ferengi were mentioned durring the Farpoint mission. Once by Picard and im absolutely SURE that Geordi told a joke involving the Ferengi durring that mission.

So we know that the Ferengi are known at least as early as 2363... with no real mention of first contact with the ferengi till.. well I dunno.
 

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Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
 
Do what I do when they ,anage to screw up something. Repeat to yourself, over and over.

First Contact changed everything. The timline for TOS no longer applies. The Enterprise-E interfered with the time line, and , (gasp) nothing's the same anymore!


 

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
Uhh...that really wouldn't affect the Romulans or the Ferengi...

-MMoM
 

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