quote:"I think our final episode of the season is going to be quite startling because we're going to do a cliffhanger that will put a new twist on the series as it enters its third year," Berman told the British Star Trek Monthly (via StarTrekUK.com. "I don't really want to get specific about it, but we're not talking about a tiny change. We're talking about a change that is going to, to some degree, alter our mission and, to some degree, change the tone of the series. We're very excited by it. This idea will be introduced partially in the final episode of this season and then more dramatically dealt with in the opener next season."
Why does he have to treat the fans like they are morons. Simple translation of this paragraph... we are 'retooling' Enterprise.
Very obvious.
Klingons will probably become a big part of the series now - as they think that Klingons are what can save a series.
Why doesn't he just up and leave? Oh, of course he's there till the day he dies. I think fans need to descend on Paramount and remove this ruthless dictator!! Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I miss the time of bless where character-deaths and severe plot twists were taken seriously and honestly, when you didn't see through the weave and hear that this and that character got a better offer and wanted out, or they ran out of budget money or the viewers were waning.
A little na�veness can sometimes be good for enjoying the experience more. My brother was blown away by DS9-"What You Leave Behind" because he didn't know 75% of the battle-scenes were stock material. And I had to go and ruin that. Damn my eyes. >:-(
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
We must remove this vicious dictator and the threat he poses to the world with his Episodes of Extreme Tediousness! It would help if he had oil, though.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well he does write Scripts Of Mass Stupidity.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Should the Red-shirted fans be sent in first?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Seriously though, why go and change a TV series that many people have invested 2 years in already? Gimmicks a good TV series don't make.
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
If you dont like it dont watch it. I love Klingons, they have been done well in Enterprise, and I look forward to next season.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Fuck I hate that argument: "If you don't like it - don't watch it". If you actually read my post properly - you'd see that I LIKE Enterprise the way it is. Berman clearly is retooling the series to pull more viewers. Historically they've used the Klingons to do this (DS9) - which they didn't really need to do. And the Borg on Voyager. Leave Enterprise ALONE Berman!!
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Personally, I am sick and tired of the Klingons. We've had way too many Klingon episodes over the years. Every time I turn around its Klingon this, Klingon that. All the fans they show dressed up are in crappy Klingon outfits. What about the fans that actually put a lot of work into making, say, a SF uniform from the actual materials used? Or the fans with pretty good looking Romulan or Andorian costumes, etc? When you say "Star Trek" people think of Kirk, the Enterprise, and Klingons. I've had enough of Klingons! Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
Some of my friend thinks that I'm insane or something because I watch Enterprise and then complain how bad it was And then they utilise "If you don't like it dont watch it." argument very often.
I usually respond that I'm an optimist and I believe that Enterprise will be better and better with time. I had the same thing with SG-1 - I had a chance to watch first season only a year after its premiere, and I didn't like it. But now I've seen all six seasons and I think that SG-1 is great
So, I sincerely hope that Enterprise will become better, starting with this unorthodox cliffhanger.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I too am pretty sick of the Klingons. I found it very amusing how, before Enterprise debuted, all of the radio advertisements for the show insisted that "this show will be different from your father's Trek" or some such nonsense, and then had the very first episode be about a Star Trek race that everyone's seen a million times before and know all about.
IMHO, if B&B wanted to use the Klingons and at the same time show a difference between this show and TNG/DS9/VOY, they should have made them like the TOS Klingons. Devious, but not the outright animalistic bullies that ENT seems to be making them into.
As for Berman's quote, I will take what he's allegedly said with a grain of salt (like I do with everything that comes out of that guy's mouth). He can talk new directions and changes all he wants. He can talk about how pleased he is all he wants (which he does a lot). I'll be the judge of how good or bad I think the final product is.
Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
Retooled ship - predictions, anyone?
I was thinking they'd keep the saucer - but add on a neck pylon and a secondary hull. You know, something original...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Tekno! Make sure to visit this thread!
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Not again...
The E-D wasn't very original now wasn't it? Relying on a 100 year old design...
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I get the feeling that this is what will happen:
1) Earth will in some way be seriously threatened-- possibly even attacked. I doubt it will be by the Romulans, I don't think they reached Earth during the war. It won't be the Klingons because of what Mortok said on DS9 about the Breen.
2) Enterprise will be given a new mission to seek out new weapons and strong allies... think of SG-1 with a Star Trek twist. Hope they get it right, or we're going to have a Voyager-do-over if I've ever seen one coming.
3) This will more than likely lead to continuity problems around the technology that Enterprise will find and/or bring back. It may also bring a problem depending on which aliens they decide to meet.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Now, I don't want to go and make the DS9 comparison again, but...hows this different from what they did to DS9? Y'know, the series that everyone apparently loves?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
We love it because it had great stories, great acting and a grown-up premise. ...whereas later Trek shows had to resort to "lowest common denomenator" gimmics: Borg females in skintight outfits and high heels? Decontamination in a sauna with the science officer's nipples poking out? Not exactly te same caliber of Trek as DS9 IMHO. Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Or maybe the reason DS9 and B5 were so successful was that they were soap operas for men?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: Or maybe the reason DS9 and B5 were so successful
Which timeline would this be, again?
There are plenty of valid complaints one could level against Enterprise, and all of them (and more) have been. But "Rick Berman does not get Star Trek" is simply nonsense, if your definition of Star Trek includes anything other than TOS. (And for some, it doesn't, and good job to those people, what with their principle-y stick-to-itivness.)
Even if Enterprise enjoyed the support among the fans (and more importantly among the casual fans) that TNG did, I suspect we'd hear the same kind of talk from Berman. This is not a good year at all for shows featuring people with bumpy heads or spaceships. Even Joss Whedon is talking about new directions, in an effort to save Angel from the chopping block.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"What about the fans that actually put a lot of work into making, say, a SF uniform from the actual materials used?"
They're even bigger asocial dorks than the ones in the crappy Klingon costumes?
"Borg females in skintight outfits and high heels? Decontamination in a sauna with the science officer's nipples poking out? "Not exactly te same caliber of Trek as DS9 IMHO."
Not to defend VOY or ENT over DS9 or anything, but DS9 did suggest that you can throw a rock in the mirror universe w/o hitting at least three male-fantasy-lesbians.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:can
Can't.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I am agreeing a lot with both sides here, and being that I am not quite up to your levels here yet, I just would like to add that I think that if they go the way of the Klingon more than 3 eps. a season then I will be seriously disappointed with this series.
I, thus far, have liked it, but if they even tease us with taking us any further with the Borg or Klingons than what we see by the end of this season, I will seriously be sick. As much as they have intrigued me in the past I am sick of them.
Are they afraid of using the Romulans after the Nemesis Bomb they dropped this winter? Are they afraid to continue to go on an original tangent like they have with the Andorians? Are they afraid to go into some new old aliens we've seen in "Journey to Babel", et. al.?
I'm afraid of what there is to come judging by what they have been dangling in front of us as of late.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I have a disturbing tendency to drop negatives. Normally, I catch it.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Futurama Guy said:
"Are they afraid of using the Romulans after the Nemesis Bomb they dropped this winter?"
Well the thing about that is, this movie was hyped as Romulan movie. It was NOT a Romulan movie. We SAW some Romulans. Some died - but we had no real Romulan dialogue or meaty stuff.
It was a movie that dealt with a cheesed of orphan clone and his band of freaky misfits.
Really another "Alien of the Week" movie - except they tried to say that Remans were a big part of the whole picture. Nup, they weren't.
If we wanted a "Romulan" movie - we would have had something akin to the Romulan shows on TNG - "The Enemy", "Unification", "Face of the Enemy", "The Next Phase" etc.
Frankly the movie could have used Klingons in place of Romulans.
Does anyone remember the movie rumours for Insurrection... and that it was to involve Romulans and that Picard was really a clone or some sorta crap? Something fishy there... Maybe John Logan had previously pitched for a Trek movie?
And back to Enterprise. It's not about Rick Berman doesn't know Trek - he's just going to totally change the direction of Enterprise after Two years of investment and storylines and character building.
DS9 had Klingons but it's mission still stayed the same, infact it was a logical step, after meeting the Dominion, and the events of Improbable Cause/The Dies is Cast.
Voyager was basically a new show every season. Voyager should have stuck to its guns and stayed true to "The Caretaker". By "Parturition" it was a very different show.
I agree - no more KLINGONS.
Oh and the Klingons will attack Earth because the writers/producers know nothing about anything that happened in DS9 or what Martok said.
Andrew
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
quote:Does anyone remember the movie rumours for Insurrection... and that it was to involve Romulans and that Picard was really a clone or some sorta crap
As far as I understand it the orignal script for Insurrection (known as Stardust) dealt with a rogue starfleet commander, a friend of Picards from thier acadmey days, attacking the Romulans. At the end Picard would have destroyed Data as he would have been involved in the plot.
quote:Oh and the Klingons will attack Earth because the writers/producers know nothing about anything that happened in DS9 or what Martok said.
Maybe. Sussman knows about DS9 so with luck he'll be one of the writers. Of course with more luck then we are going to get, this may signal some forward planing regrading the series and it all may be a set up for tying the TCW and BOTF arcs together.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: If we wanted a "Romulan" movie - we would have had something akin to the Romulan shows on TNG - "The Enemy", "Unification", "Face of the Enemy", "The Next Phase" etc.
Oh yes, when they come up with the Friends titles for "The Next Phase", everyone will call it "The one with the Romulans in trouble", and not, say, "The one where Geordi and Ro become pass-through and stuff".
And "Unification"? The episode that, frankly, was just a teeny, tiny bit shit?
quote:DS9 had Klingons but it's mission still stayed the same, infact it was a logical step, after meeting the Dominion, and the events of Improbable Cause/The Dies is Cast.
I'm not quite sure you've got cause and effect the right way around here. The writers didn't write up to the end of season 3 and think "Hmm, we have a big enemy, so let's drastically change things". They got into season 2, and thought "Hmm, we need to spice things up, so let's bring in a big enemy. And a cool little warship." They weren't forced to adapt to the Dominion. The Dominion WAS them adapting.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
1. The Next Phase mightn't have been the best example as yes, it did focus more on Geordi and Ro - but it had some quintissential Romulan moments... i.e. the Science officer accepting the Enterprise's help and then ordering that feed-back be sent back to the Enterprise resulting in its destruction. The other episodes mentioned - including Unifications specifically dealt with Romulans and the Romulan way. I suppose The Mind's Eye could be included. Nemesis had Romulans - but didn't do anything with them - it mainly dealt with Remans - so that's why it was a misnomer for all those people to go "Oh this next one is a ROMULAN movie."
We see more about Klingons in TMP than we really do about Romulans in Nemesis!
And I wasn't talking about the Dominion - I was talking about the Klingons. The Dominion had seeds in very early season 2 and grew ever since. We still had everything else that had been established in season 1.
Then they brought in the Klingons AS WELL. They didn't really need to - although it was good - and it did stay with the flow of the series - i.e. the Klingons were bound to get caught up in the paranoia of the Dominion eventually.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I do think that the "forshadowing" of the Dominion in season 2 of DS9 is perceived as being a lot bigger and more well planned than it actually was. From memory, we got a comment in "Rules of Aquisition" that said that you "had to do business with the Dominion", and then a comment in "Sanctuary" about the Dominion conquoring a planet. That's it.
Just because they got mentions before they were used doesn't mean that they weren't a "shake-them-up, change the show" sort of race. Before hand, the show was about Bajor, trying to get it to join the Federation, strange new aliens visiting the station and causing a bit of a pulava. Having the most powerful race since the Borg turn up and start blowing things up was definitely a massive shake up, and a distict alteration from the original premise.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Or so they would have you think.....
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
quote:pulava
Palaver.
. . . Wait, what did I just do?
Posted by Hunter (Member # 611) on :
quote: Having the most powerful race since the Borg turn up and start blowing things up was definitely a massive shake up, and a distict alteration from the original premise.
Except that I believe there's a memo from Berman to Piller, before the show started, stating that the bad guys must come from beyond the wormhole.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific. "The bad guys" could have meant anything from an evil unstoppable empire to a space going version of my ass.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
You should read the DS9 Companion, then. There are a few very good interviews in that book, and Ira Behr described how they started planning the organization of the Dominion at the beginning of Season Two.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Doesn't stop them from being a massive shake-up of the original premise, far more than the Borg were in TNG. The happy drones were in a handful of episodes, and when they weren't there, the show functioned the same as if they hadn't existed.
The Dominion became irrevocably intwinded with the DS9 story, a story which they were not originally conceived as being in when the show was created. Therefore, "massive shake-up".
And making sure the bad guys came from the Gamma Quadrant would have made sense anyway, otherwise the Wormhole concept would have been next to useless. TPTB didn't have an overwhelming need to follow that idea though, considering that the Klingons and Cardassians were also used as bad guys, and they were firmly Alpha Quadrant rooted.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote: The Dominion became irrevocably intwinded with the DS9 story, a story which they were not originally conceived as being in when the show was created. Therefore, "massive shake-up".
Ahhhh, but DS9 never FORGOT what it was from Emissary onwards. So they introduced new baddies - TNG intro'd the Borg and Cardies and Q - didn't stop it from sticking to what it was - it's premise.
DS9 stuck through all seven seasons guarding the wormhole from various threats. Exploring what they could of the GQ. Exploring Bajoran Political and Religious themes. Dealing with continual threts due to the unique nature of the only stable wormhole on their doorstep. DS9 might have had a clone or a Klingon or two extra around in later seasons, but it was still doing strong what it had been doing since 'Emissary'. Unlike Voyager which lost it's way after Caretaker and then REALLY lost it in season 2/3 It was like a reset button at the beginning of each season.
So along comes Enterprise - and for the first two years it has a core mission. Then along comes Berman who wants to Retool the show and push it in directions that go against the original idea for the show and it's previosly established two years of episodes.
What was that Plan B that Paramount had up heir sleeves incase Enterpise didn't workin the first few episode. It supposedly allowed use of the sets etc.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What was that Plan B that Paramount had up heir sleeves incase Enterpise didn't workin the first few episode. It supposedly allowed use of the sets etc.
It was a false rumor.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
I have missed more eps than I've watched, but it ENT doesn't have that 'spark' that finally caught my interest in TNG, after 2 years on the air. When I do catch an ep I feel like I am watching a TNG ep again, which I find to be boring, so I have only finished about half the eps I have caught.
I don't know if this is because the writing is not so good, or I am getting better at seeing where the plotline goes and what they will do. The one ep name I can think of was "Communicator", which I thought was a pretty good ep, and since I can't remember the names of any of the others, I guess it was the only one I really liked. Even the future guy ep where they end up in the future seemed, well, out there.
I am curious though, would the series be better if continutity was followed exactly? Yes, as far as sticking to the 'future' eps, but would it really be interesting?
What would a good story line be for a new Trek ep? We've explored strange new worlds, dealt with local galactic politics, met superbeings, been flung across the galaxy, and back in one case, had a galactic war, and all that, so, what would is there that would catch your individual interests now, after seeing what has been done with ENT?
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