The crew's deception was too obvious, even for the Ferengi, do they have a lower Intelligence level?
Irrelevant question from the episode: If our civilization almost collapsed because of commerce, then why are the Ferengi still using commerce? Is their greed involved? It's all confusing.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
I'm still spiting blood. My comments are in the Tech forum. Let's just say I was less than impressed.
Posted by Flower Man (Member # 780) on :
These Ferengi were gullible even by Ferengi standards. This is true. However, I think continuety freaks would be pleased to hear that the Ferengi never did reveal to the Humans who they were.
Posted by The Apocalypse (Member # 633) on :
I don't think the writer made the Ferengi reveal themselves because they find out who they are later in the future, they have to follow the Federation history..
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I think the "hoo-man" thing was a nice bit of continuity...
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Me doth think that the creative staff art deadth in the head.
Is it impossible for them to come up with an original idea? Isn't that what this little time travel thing is about? If we're going to be 200 years in the past then let's try a little harder than just "use the Ferengi, but don't say their name!"
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Essentially all dramatic comedy works according to the basic principle that the characters are relatively static and the audience has a pretty good idea how they will behave, while the situations in which they are placed is the variable. The narrowest outcome of this is the traditional "situation comedy"... Frasier or Kramer or Chandler are constants while the pickle they find themselves in changes week-to-week. And while we can always guess how they'll react to each twist of the plot, that isn't the point. We still laugh. In fact, part of the reason we laugh is that we subconsciously know what's going to have to happen next.
Now, granted, as you break away from the standard sitcom breed of comedy this breaks down a bit. But the general principles hold true: comedy generally needs a fixed axis on which we can slide the actual plot-of-the-week up against to create funny situations. Every major stand-up comic may well change their jokes from show to show, but they still cultivate a static persona. Eddie Murphy was always Eddie Murphy. Jerry Seinfeld was always Jerry Seinfeld. Tim Allen was always Tim Allen. Likewise, pretty much all the humour in Trek has relied on the more static characters. Short of having them actually crack jokes, slippery multinote characters rarely ooze humor... Kirk was rarely as funny as Spock or McCoy were, for instance. O'Brien/Bashir funny moments were generally on account of them being their same old selves, same with Odo/Quark, or Worf/Anyone.
The Ferengi serve as that kind of fixed axes in Enterprise. I've read no end to various whingey posts saying they should have been Orion pirates instead or some bull like that. For heaven's sake, the reason the Ferengi were used is that the casual viewing audience already has a reasonable familiarity with the culture and knows where the humour will go. DS9 did Ferengi comedies and not alien-of-the-week comedies for that very reason.
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
But this is not DS9, which had a Ferengi in the cast where that kind of comedy can be pulled off. When I first heard that the show was going to be set before the original series, I thought that it would be a homage to 1960's series. And now I see TNG era species on the show. I feel that the producers have forgotten the past fans and aimed on getting a new base since Trek became a franchise after Gene's death. The show should try to be more original than brining in TNG aliens and hoping that the episode is seen by new viewers than the older ones.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Of course, if I wanted to see a sitcom, I'd turn on a sitcom.
But I'll withhold final judgement 'til I see it.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:When I first heard that the show was going to be set before the original series, I thought that it would be a homage to 1960's series. And now I see TNG era species on the show. I feel that the producers have forgotten the past fans and aimed on getting a new base since Trek became a franchise after Gene's death.
Yes, I completely agree. IMO, B&B are trying really hard to make this show similar to TNG (a ratings hit) regardless of the time period it's set in, instead of trying to be a little daring and make it a truly unique show. Yes, I'll admit that there ARE some things about the show which does make it different from past Treks, but overall, if we're just going to expect plots that are just rehashes of "Rascals" (with the same aliens, even!), then I could just be watching TNG reruns on TNN instead of this show.
Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
Well.. I watched it. As a whole - it wasn't one of the 'finer' eps this season.
But it wasn't bad. And it wasn't great... I was happy to see Ethan Phillips again...
Jeffrey Combs... will forever be one of my fave ST Guest Stars... No matter what the character - he plays it with class and talent.
But - Yes... Ferengi equalled Stupid in this one - and that was a little wrong. But it DID show that they were scavengers - that perhaps their technology was more - 'acquired' then developed.
The one GREAT thing I liked in this episode was the - 'back and forth' between Archer and T'Pol...
She actually showed HUMOUR!!
[ March 28, 2002, 21:10: Message edited by: Alshrim ]
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
As comedy, it wasn't funny.
And, my God, the story CRAWLED.
Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
I didn't say I was laughing my butt off.. My point was - that at least they are showing a ... erm... 'friendship' growing between Archer and T'Pol.
But ya... it wasn't the fastest paced story..
[ March 29, 2002, 04:28: Message edited by: Alshrim ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Actually, I really liked the brief exchange about corporate ethics, because I thought, for once, that the Ferengi response actually made sense.
"You should have run your businesses better."
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
I had no warning about this episode until I saw the preview shortly before the show went on. The thing is, Jeffrey Combs's makeup was so much the same that I thought it actually WAS Brunt, doing some time travel thingy. I was kinda sorry it wasn't a time travel ep, cuz that would've been funnier (well, Brunt of all people). Ethan Philips was great, though his makeup also looked like exactly like one he used before. I love that they're using the same actors, but it's just way too obvious.
Posted by Malnurtured Snayer (Member # 411) on :
And what's with Rene A. doing an episode next week? I don't know if I like the idea of former regular cast members making cameos ... I dunno, it just somehow seems ... wrong. That might just be me, tho.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
I couldn't tell Ethan was a Ferengi until I started to pick up some of his acting skills. Of course I knew that Jeff was in there because he acts almost the same in every character he plays.
I wonder if he'll break the record of playing the most different species record. He played human, Vorta, Ferengi, some alien in Voyager, Andorian, and I believe he played a Romulan though I am not sure.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
<excessive knowledge> Guest Species Records:
Vaughn "I still wash glue out of my nostrils all summer long" Armstrong (7 species, 10 characters)
Klingon x3 (Korris from "Heart of Glory", Korath from "Endgame", and fella from "Sleeping Dogs")
Cardassian x2 (Danar from "Past Prologue", Seskal from DS9's finale arc)
Romulan (Telek R'Mor from "Eye of the Needle")
ex-Borg drone (Two of Nine in "Survival Instinct")
Hirogen (Alpha guy from "Flesh and Blood")
Vidiian (Unnamed Captain from "Fury")
Human (Admiral Forrest, "Broken Bow" onwards)
Jeffrey "I'll only come back if they won't kill me" Combs (6 species, 7 or 11 characters depending on how you count Weyoun)
Unspecified Perv Alien (Tiron in "Meridian")
Ferengi x 2 (Brunt from "Family Business" onwards, Krem in "Acquisition")
Vorta x 1 or x 5 (Weyouns 4 through 8)
Human (Racist cop in "Far Beyond the Stars")
Unspecified Fu Manchu Alien (Penk in "Tsunkatse")
Andorian (Shran in "The Andorian Incident" and "Shadows of P'Jem")
Marc "Someday I'll settle down and play a recurring character" Alaimo (5 species, 7 characters)
Antican (Mr. Eat Fresh in "Lonely Among Us")
Romulan (Tebok in "The Neutral Zone")
Cardassian x 2 (Macet in "The Wounded" and Dukat)
Human x2 (Frederick LaRouque in "Time Arrow" and the other racist cop in "Far Beyond the Stars)
Bajoran (or at least Dukat as one)
Ethan "Look where my career took me after wrapping a principal role on UPN's #1 show" Phillips (3 species, 4 characters)
Ferengi x 3 (Dr. Farek in "Menage a Troi", Neelix-in-disguise-as-Grand-Proxy in "False Profits" and Ulis in "Acquisition")
Talaxian
Hologram (Cameo as Maitre 'd in First Contact)
</excessive knowledge>
[ March 30, 2002, 14:39: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er...I thought the general consensus on Combs' acting skills was exactly the opposite. Krem may have looked like Brunt (I didn't particularly think so.), but he certainly didn't act like him, or like Shran, or Weyoun, all of whom I would say are quite distinct.
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
Brunt was definitely not like Weyoun.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I lauged all the way through the ep. I hope they don't use the Ferengi again, but it was worth it with Combs, Phillips and Clint Howard together.
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Archer again pisses me off as a man of no-action. He had a lot of opportunities to take out the guy watching him and never did a thing. Kirk never would have stood for that.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Let's not forget John Fleck! Two Romulans, a Karemma, a junkyard dealer, and of course Silik.
Mark
Posted by Saiyanman Benjita (Member # 122) on :
Personally, I thought it was average. The writing of the episode was alright. The execution of the parts was good.
I think, however, that if they were to use the Ferengi, they should have saved it for later. It must have been a ploy in case the series flopped that was kept. I don't think they can get away with using the Ferengi in any future episodes without continuity cries from the continuity police.
Overall, I'd give it a 6 out of 10. Not the best episode yet, but not the worst. I don't think it'll be the "Trouble with Tribbles" of the series, but it definitely made people watch, which is the whole point of the series, eh?
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
I haven't seen this episode and probably won't until BBC2 shows in 2003 or 2004 (or maybe even later). I saw a review of this on another page that had numerous articles on it. All I have to say is: this is Enterprise, not TNG or DS9! What the hell have Ferengi got to do with it!!!!???? I mean come on! The Stargazer/Enterprise-D was meant to have made first contact with them!!!
Jesus Christ! Are the creator and writers of Enterprise totally brain dead?????
Posted by U//Magnus (Member # 239) on :
...and scene!
Well, there you go.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
AKB,
The crew of the Stargazer didn't even know who'd they'd encountered until TNG's "The Battle."
And if you remember your DS9, you know that the Ferengi made first contact in 1947. So bleh!
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I'm afraid the BBC won't show it. Sky or Channel 4 or somesuch bought the rights in the UK. And I bet you can't have multiple channels buying the same series.
Oh, and I just rewatched "The Battle". The attack of the Ferengi on the Stargazer sounds quite like the thing the ENT Ferengi would do. The only weird thing is that the Marauder ships are a bit overpowered. And that we never heard of a structured Ferengi fleet with DaiMon's and rank-tattoos again in DS9.
[ May 08, 2002, 02:53: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
It seems that neither the ENT pirates or the "The Battle" Ferengi used a D'Kora class Marauder for their dirty work, though. Had the ship in "The Battle" been a D'Kora, Picard would surely have recognized the design when he saw a D'Kora in "The Last Outpost".
These pirates probably don't get top-of-the-line hardware. Nor are their crews probably the brightest bulbs in the great advertising screen of Ferengidom. Well-off merchants can better afford the big Marauders, which in turn may not be all that well suited for piracy due to their conspicuous bulk.
It's indeed strange that the "military" Ferengi disappear so completely in DS9. Then again, in TNG they were the folks who openly challenged the biggest enemy vessels (e.g. "Peak Performance"). Perhaps they were the state-sanctioned elite pirates or privateers of Ferenginar?
In DS9, there simply weren't any big ships to plunder, so naturally we only saw the petty criminals and the businessmen. Only a fool would have tried raiding the commerce anywhere near our Starfleet-backed heroes...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The ship that attacked the Stargazer reportedly hid inside a crater on a moon. I imagine something similar in size to the ENT-ship, but with landing abilities.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
On an odd side thought...I wonder if the Federation Ambassador to Ferenginar is required to be from Seattle?
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
I was only saying!!! Don't pick on me, please!
Channel 4!!! Oh bollocks! I'll wait until it's on DVD - I hated recording B5 and having all of those adverts on the tape that had to be fast forwarded through.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
HEHE!!!
Channel 4!!! I spit at thee! But do keep showing ER as that is a kewl series! HEHE!
[ May 08, 2002, 11:25: Message edited by: akb1979 ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
We do get a few mentions of the Ferengi military in DS9 though, don't we? As a distinct entity? Wasn't Quark's (by Ferengi standards) mad cousin ex-military? And then of course we have a reference to the only war (at least in modern times) the Ferengi have fought, though I think that was from Legends of the Ferengi, and not an episode.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Don't forget the Marauder Mo action figure...
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Actually, I'd say Legends of the Ferengi was a far more influential book than the tech manuals in terms of stuff appearing in it subsequently being canonized.
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