Since Enterprise seems to be highlighting the Earth-Romulan War next season, it got me to thinking about what latitude could be exercised in telling that story.
What is canon regarding the E-R War?
Later
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
When was this announcement made?
There is actually a lot of discussion about that time period on this era of Romulans in the Flare achives around the time "Minefield" aired and that is all basically from "Balance of Terror".
...and incase that doesn't explain it, it basically goes unchanged after the 37 years since it was first mentioned: Early space vessels with primitive atomic weapons - a lot of members of the Stiles family was killed in the conflict - and they never saw each others faces. El Fin.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, there's a few more. The Romulans reach Earth and there is a battle. The Battle of Cheron is the last battle. The end of the war leads to the founding of the UFP.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The Romulans reach Earth? I don't think so. According to "Homefront/Paradise Lost", a state of emergency is declared on Earth at that time, or something like that, nothing more.
The closest we hear about Romulans is a battle at Tau Ceti in Kirk's time (or perhaps it was a simulated battle?), mentioned offhand in "Whom Gods Destroy". And they got to Alpha Centauri in the alternate universe where Sisko didn't replace Gabriel Bell.
The end of the war leads to the founding of the UFP? Possibly, but it's not stated anywhere. The war could well have continued beyond the founding of the Federation. Or even been started *after* the founding, if we ditch the interpretation that an "Earth/Romulan" war cannot be a Fed/Romulan one. We don't have solid dates, just the concept that it all happened "a century" before "Balance of Terror".
The Battle of Cheron is the decisive battle, but perhaps not the very last. Nitpicking, I know, but there's the chance that the war dragged on quite a bit after the Romulans lost, with a peace treaty signed decades after Cheron. Why speculate on such things? Because Spock lets slip that there were Romulan "wars", plural, in one sentence in "Balance of Terror". The uncertainty between singular and plural is a typical feature of long conflicts.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
Do we know that Cheron was in the Earth-Romulan war? Unless I missed something (which is certainly possible, as I haven't seen many later DS9 episodes or much of Voyager), it could have been after TOS: "Balance of Terror."
In TNG: "The Defector," Jarok said that it was a humiliating defeat, but he didn't say when. And even for a Vulcanoid race, two centuries seems like a long time to still be sore about it.
And in TNG: "Pegasus," Picard says the Treaty of Algeron has kept peace between the Federation and the Romulan Empire for "sixty years," implying some conflict between them around 2310 or so--which is also around the date of the Tomed Incident, whatever that was.
(at this point I had originally written, "on the other hand, "Incident" sort of implies something less than a full scale war." But then I remembered that snatch of conversation between Garak and Bashir in DS9: "Way Of the Warrior," about the B'something Nebula Incident between the Klingons and Cardassians. You know, the "minor skirmish" that "lasted eightteen years.")
The most fascinating tidbit (to me, anyway) is that the Romulan Ambassador is present when Starfleet briefs the UFP President on Operation Retrieve in Star Trek VI. That implies a high degree of friendship and cooperation between the two governments. What happened between 2268 and 2293 to make that possible? And what happened between then and the Romulan withdrawal?
I've never been happy with the idea of the Romulan War ending in an Earth victory. Things like the Neutral Zone suggest to me a war that ended in a stalemate, or maybe a peace imposed on both sides by a third party, a la the Organians.
One problem ENT is going to have is that the Enterprise already has technology too advanced for the Romulan war, which was fought with "primitive atomic" weapons and crude comm systems that didn't allow for visual communication.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Actually, the weapons the Enterprise uses could well be "atomic". Even the weapons Kirk's ship used could be "atomic", just not "primitive atomic", and the semantic requirements would still be met. Introduce the phase pistol to a 1930s or 1950s scifi reader, and he'll go "ahh, an atomic blaster!"...
And it seems doubtful the limitation on visuals was a technological one. Spock's run-on sentence on what was different back then leaves open the more realistic possibility that the Romulans simply refused to acknowledge the calls. Just like they did in "Minefield".
Good point about Cheron dating, though. No canon source pegs it as a RW event. And Kirk appeared unfamiliar with planet Cheron in "Let that... Battlefield", which would be VERY odd if a famous battle site of that name already existed (never mind if the battle site wasn't actually a planet, the similarity in names should have sent Kirk speculating instead of just staring numbly).
Clearly, some sort of "my enemy's enemy" I-rub-yours-you-rub-mine arrangement was in place in ST6:TUC. Noncanon sources speak of a Klingon-Romulan alliance during TOS, but canon doesn't mention that. Instead, it seems there was a Romulan-Fed alliance in the 2290s, and perhaps even earlier on... Until the Romulan instinct for backstabbing got the better of them.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: And it seems doubtful the limitation on visuals was a technological one. Spock's run-on sentence on what was different back then leaves open the more realistic possibility that the Romulans simply refused to acknowledge the calls. Just like they did in "Minefield".
I'll take your word for it; it's been a long time since I've actually seen the episode. I thought the dialogue implied that it was due to hardware limitations, but maybe I'm just remembering something from a non-canon source.
quote:Clearly, some sort of "my enemy's enemy" I-rub-yours-you-rub-mine arrangement was in place in ST6:TUC.
I assume that would be the basis of it, but that alone wouldn't extend to the point of letting a Romulan representative sit in on a classified briefing. Unless the UFP really does take the "good guys = naive and trusting" thing that far.
quote:Noncanon sources speak of a Klingon-Romulan alliance during TOS, but canon doesn't mention that.
The Klingon-Romulan alliance idea stems from the Romulans using Klingon ships in TOS: "The Enterprise Incident," although I don't think the episode ever really states why the Romulans are using Klingon ships. An alliance is just the most obvious explanation.
Marian
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Sisko said in "Homefront" (DS9) that the landing of Jem'Hadar troops on Earth would constitute "the kind of war Earth hasn't seen since the founding of the Federation," which it seems would likely refer to the RW.
The Okudas' Star Trek Chronology points out that the reason for placing the Battle of Cheron at or near the end of the RW is that Jarok/Setal associated the battle with the establishment of the Neutral Zone. (It is also worth noting that the mention of the event is nicked from the Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology by Stan & Fred Goldstein, which describes it as the final conflict of the war.)
Romulans and Klingons have obviously already had some technological exchange prior to the 22nd century, and the two governments along with Earth settled Nimbus III together in the late 2260s. They became "blood enemies" circa 2292, however. (According to Geordi in "Reunion" [TNG].) This, nicely, is just in time for the Romulan government to be conspiring with upper-echelon members of Starfleet and rogue elements of the Klingon military in TUC.
Regardless of the conspiracy, though, it makes absolutely no sense that Nanclus would be allowed to sit in on the Operation: Retrieve briefing, and I chide Nicholas Meyer for this very unthoughtful and inane directing decision.
-MMoM Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: Do we know that Cheron was in the Earth-Romulan war? Unless I missed something (which is certainly possible, as I haven't seen many later DS9 episodes or much of Voyager), it could have been after TOS: "Balance of Terror."
In TNG: "The Defector," Jarok said that it was a humiliating defeat, but he didn't say when. And even for a Vulcanoid race, two centuries seems like a long time to still be sore about it.
And in TNG: "Pegasus," Picard says the Treaty of Algeron has kept peace between the Federation and the Romulan Empire for "sixty years," implying some conflict between them around 2310 or so--which is also around the date of the Tomed Incident, whatever that was.
(at this point I had originally written, "on the other hand, "Incident" sort of implies something less than a full scale war." But then I remembered that snatch of conversation between Garak and Bashir in DS9: "Way Of the Warrior," about the B'something Nebula Incident between the Klingons and Cardassians. You know, the "minor skirmish" that "lasted eightteen years.")
The most fascinating tidbit (to me, anyway) is that the Romulan Ambassador is present when Starfleet briefs the UFP President on Operation Retrieve in Star Trek VI. That implies a high degree of friendship and cooperation between the two governments. What happened between 2268 and 2293 to make that possible? And what happened between then and the Romulan withdrawal?
I've never been happy with the idea of the Romulan War ending in an Earth victory. Things like the Neutral Zone suggest to me a war that ended in a stalemate, or maybe a peace imposed on both sides by a third party, a la the Organians.
One problem ENT is going to have is that the Enterprise already has technology too advanced for the Romulan war, which was fought with "primitive atomic" weapons and crude comm systems that didn't allow for visual communication.
one more beer can to throw into the stew is how the events on ST:FC have altered the timeline...everyone crys how fucked up the current stage effects and dodads greatly out class 1960's Sfx but you got a movie as justification to revisualize a medium...
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH:
quote:Noncanon sources speak of a Klingon-Romulan alliance during TOS, but canon doesn't mention that.
The Klingon-Romulan alliance idea stems from the Romulans using Klingon ships in TOS: "The Enterprise Incident," although I don't think the episode ever really states why the Romulans are using Klingon ships. An alliance is just the most obvious explanation.
Personally, I'm open to the possibility that the Romulans managed to capture a Klingon ship and copied it, similar to the way the Russians copied several American aircraft designs. There was a show (on the History Channel, I think?) about how the Russians got their hands on the B-29 and copied it, even going as far to copy the damage a repair doublers, creating the Tu-4. Maybe this is one of the reasons Klingons really don't like Romulans?
B.J.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: one more beer can to throw into the stew is how the events on ST:FC have altered the timeline...everyone crys how fucked up the current stage effects and dodads greatly out class 1960's Sfx but you got a movie as justification to revisualize a medium...
But as per "Regeneration" (ENT) it would seem that TPTB are portraying any "alterations" caused by the events of FC as simply part of the normal flow of time. In other words, that's how it was always "supposed" to happen.
quote:Originally posted by B.J.:
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: The Klingon-Romulan alliance idea stems from the Romulans using Klingon ships in TOS: "The Enterprise Incident," although I don't think the episode ever really states why the Romulans are using Klingon ships. An alliance is just the most obvious explanation.
Personally, I'm open to the possibility that the Romulans managed to capture a Klingon ship and copied it, similar to the way the Russians copied several American aircraft designs. There was a show (on the History Channel, I think?) about how the Russians got their hands on the B-29 and copied it, even going as far to copy the damage a repair doublers, creating the Tu-4. Maybe this is one of the reasons Klingons really don't like Romulans?
It's entirely possible that this sort of thing occurred. An alliance is equally possible. But whether by mutual espionage or cooperative exchange, the Klingons and Romulans each have acquired elements of the other's technology and design and have incorporated them into their own. Moreover, as I pointed out, this has obviously been going on even before the timeframe of ENT.
-MMoM Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: one more beer can to throw into the stew is how the events on ST:FC have altered the timeline...
Note to self: never eat Pensive's cooking.
Marian
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: Personally, I'm open to the possibility that the Romulans managed to capture a Klingon ship and copied it, similar to the way the Russians copied several American aircraft designs. There was a show (on the History Channel, I think?) about how the Russians got their hands on the B-29 and copied it, even going as far to copy the damage a repair doublers, creating the Tu-4. Maybe this is one of the reasons Klingons really don't like Romulans?
B.J.
From The Enterprise Incident: "That's a Klingon ship!" "But it couldn't be, not in this area." "Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design."
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: Noncanon sources speak of a Klingon-Romulan alliance during TOS, but canon doesn't mention that.
Not a lot can really be speculated from the above quote the ST:Encyclopedia seems to incate a brief Klingon-Romulan Alliance, and thats semi-canon enough for me.
Regarding the Treaty of Algeron:
From The Defector - "Second officer's log, supplemental. We are prepared to enter the Neutral Zone in direct violation of the Treaty of Algeron." --------- "The humiliating defeat at the Battle of Cheron has not been forgotten. The new leaders have vowed to discard the treaty and claim the Neutral Zone. Nelvana Three is only the first step."
From The Pegasus. "That's what this is all about? A cloaking device? In the Treaty of Algeron the Federation specifically agreed not to develop cloaking technology." -- "That treaty has kept the peace for sixty years. And as a Starfleet officer, you are sworn to uphold it."
It seems fairly self explainatory that the Treaty of Algeron was created in association with the Neutral Zone and is tied into the Battle of Cheron. This also seems to be confirmed in the ST: Encyclopedia. The 60-year reference to the cloaking device easily could have been an amendment to the original treaty.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The Federation might have been in it's infantcy when the Earth/Romulan war broke out or it could have started as a war between one of Earth's allies (Andoria as an example) that led to Earth's involvment, strengthening of alliances between Earth and the other founding UFP members that would eventually lead to the federation.
I believe the cloaking device ban and the Treaty of Algeron were a result of The Tomed Incident that left "thousands" of federation citizens dead and led to the romulans isolating themselves from contact with the federation.
The Algeron treaty might have been the only thing that prevented all-out war. It fits the timeline better and a KLingon/Romulan alliance explains why KLingons use ships called "Bird of Prey" and have cloaking devices.
...of course, the Romulans still had contact (and conflict) with their ol' pals, the Klingons during their isolation and even managed to wipe out Nerandra Three and Khitomer during this timeframe. Sounds like the Klingon's hatred for the Romulans stems from all the times they got their assses kicked by them between STVI and TNG. Posted by Irishman (Member # 1188) on :
So, do we think that the entire E-W was fought ship-to-ship, or was there a ground element to it? How exactly could it have started? ENT seems to have shown a Romulan incursion by a cloaked BoP (awesome design that) which shows interest on their parts as early as 2151. I would like to see some combination of Starfleet and MACO forces fighting on different fronts. I can imagine the following conversation going on between Admiral Forrest and Starfleet Intelligence:
"How can we issue a formal declaration of war against a species we know nothing about?"
"We know enough to act. We know they're aggressive. And territorial. And they can reach Earth. Don't forget the Xindi."
"I have not forgotten the Xindi. But we don't know what they're capable of. Or how they would interpret the declaration."
"What's the worst that could happen? If they are offended by it, we're already in it up to our eyes...if not..."
"If not?"
"If not, then maybe they'll surrender."
"Or maybe they'll call friends. Who are their allies? You don't know."
"At this point, their hostile intent is clear. We owe it to those who died to make sure.."
"Oh God, here we go again with the speeches."
"we owe it to them to make sure they didn't die in vain."
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I think that it's easier to say that the Treaty of Algeron upheld the Neutral Zone... perhaps even changing it's borders [explaining the difference between BoT and The Defector... or was it another episode, the one with the Iconian gates... neutral zone is said to be lightyears wide].
I think Algeron is what calmed nerves after the Tomed Incident in 2311 and it is not the one from 2160's for the original war[s]. And it was this treaty that also ended Starfleet's development of cloaking technology.
Of course, the question is what does the Tomed Incident have to do with Starfleet cloaking technology? Could Tomed have been Starfleet's cloaking research facility and the Romulans found out about it? Could Starfleet have had a cloaked fleet at Tomed which utterly decimated the incoming Romulan fleet... or actually caused such a skirmish that it totally demoralized both causing the Romulans to demand Starfleet stop developing the tech and Starfleet was glad to accept that to end the situation.
Posted by MarianLH (Member # 1102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: It seems fairly self explainatory that the Treaty of Algeron was created in association with the Neutral Zone and is tied into the Battle of Cheron. This also seems to be confirmed in the ST: Encyclopedia. The 60-year reference to the cloaking device easily could have been an amendment to the original treaty.
Your idea of "fairly self-explanatory" sounds more like "one possible interpretation" to me.
Algeron could just as easily be a later treaty which reaffirmed the Neutral Zone, or maybe even replaced it with a new one. (Ex Astris Scientia has a graphic which overlays the neutral zones from TOS: "Balance of error" and Nemesis, and they don't quite match.)
If there was an amendment it seems odd that neither of the "sixty year" conversations in "Pegasus" mention it. Both refer to the treaty itself. And Riker's argument with Pressman aboard the Pegasus makes it sound like the prohibition against cloaking technology was an original part of the treaty. Admittedly it's not explicit, but it just sounds wrong that Pressman blames "that treaty" rather than some hypothetical amendment.
(As an aside, does anyone else find it interesting that the "Pegasus" dialogue--however you interpret it--opens the door to Starfleet using cloaking devices at the end of the 23rd century?)
Dragging this tangent back to the original topic, I'd say that the door is open for ENT to write the Romulan war any way they like, even if they were as tight-ass@%&, er, as concerned about continuity as some of us are. Which they aren't.
Marian
PS:
quote:[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarianLH: [qb] Noncanon sources speak of a Klingon-Romulan alliance during TOS, but canon doesn't mention that.
Just for the record, that wasn't me. That was Timo, quoted by me.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: As an aside, does anyone else find it interesting that the "Pegasus" dialogue--however you interpret it--opens the door to Starfleet using cloaking devices at the end of the 23rd century?)
As a side note, the novelisations of Star Trek V and Star Trek VI run with this idea, the former stating that the cloaking device isn't installed on the Enterprise-A yet, and the second one having them use it to get into Klingon Space (although they know it likely won't work against the sensor stations at the border).
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Sounds like the Klingon's hatred for the Romulans stems from all the times they got their assses kicked by them between STVI and TNG.
Well it goes back further than that. In "Blood Oath" there was mention of the Battle of Klach D'Kel Brakt which was known as a legendary Klingon victory over the Romulans. Odo said it occured "almost a century ago" so that means that some pretty nasty relations between the two date back as far as 2270.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Since novelizations were already mentioned, I'd like to advertise the David George III novel "Serpents Among the Ruins" now.
As some may already know... (= SPOILERS!)
... George suggests that IRW Tomed was a Romulan ship that (apparently) performed a suicide strike against RNZ Starfleet outposts, using her quantum singularity drive as a big bomb. A war nearly resulted, but was averted when the Feds agreed to sign a rather humiliating treaty where they agreed to abandon cloaking tech. Algeron in turn was a space station used for diplomatic negotiations, built at the site of an old battle (which jibes with the old RPG idea of Algeron being a RW battle site). And while the book isn't explicit on this, it seems to suggest there were several "Treaties of Algeron", all associated with this famous negotiating spot.
The novel also examines the Fed-Romulan-Klingon relationships between TUC and Tomed Incident in some detail, and IMHO does it very skilfully - many possibilities are left open, but a lot of intrigue and "historical facts" are still generated.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
Algeron could just as easily be a later treaty which reaffirmed the Neutral Zone, or maybe even replaced it with a new one. (Ex Astris Scientia has a graphic which overlays the neutral zones from TOS: "Balance of error" and Nemesis, and they don't quite match.) *is at work, making beer stew* hmm. does the differences in the maps, both of which are over a 100 years part, take into accound *throws in a miller bear bottle from last week* for irregularities *grabs a pack of smokes, lights on up, takes a puff, and throw both the pack and the light cig into the pot* in the space time continuim? *frowns* ...and the cost of inflation?
*yells to the Flare crue* DINNER's READY!
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Since novelizations were already mentioned, I'd like to advertise the David George III novel "Serpents Among the Ruins" now.
I bought the book as well, and while an interesting read, I felt sort of cheated by the final depiction of what really happened with the Tomed Incident. I don't know; I guess I just feel it loses the sacrifice that I had imagined.
SPOILERS
Sort of like if someone wrote a story to explain 9/11 was just a plot to make it appear people died, and actually no one was hurt.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Concerning the E-RW why the heck can't it be just space battles--- with the ground battles being one-sided slaughters.
I doubt there were any ground battles, except for the Romulans opening salvos against Earth colonies. Those colonies would have been wiped out. The remaining question is why didn't the Romulans occupy that territory or what weaponry did Earth use to vaporize any trace of the Romulan ground troops?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I imagine ground battles would make the whole "unseen enemy" even sillier than it already was.
Since everyone is throwing in their Tomed Incident theories, I might as well join in.
Since this treaty deals specifically with the NZ and Federation cloaking tech, it stands to reason that whatever the incident was, it might have involved the Neutral Zone and cloaked Starfleet ships.
My pet theory is that cloaked Starfleet vessels are caught on the wrong side of the NZ. The Romulans retaliate against the Federation colony on Tomed. The Federation Council is of course shocked to learn about Starfleet's naughty business, and is only too happy to sign a treaty that reaffirms the Neutral Zone and forces the UFP to abandon cloaking tech.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: ENT seems to have shown a Romulan incursion by a cloaked BoP (awesome design that) which shows interest on their parts as early as 2151.
This isn't what happened in the episode. Enterprise wandered into a star system that happened to be claimed by the Romulans, not the other way around.
(Though really, a cloaked minefield isn't the best way to keep people away from somewhere.)
Posted by SoundEffect (Member # 926) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: The end of the war leads to the founding of the UFP? Possibly, but it's not stated anywhere. The war could well have continued beyond the founding of the Federation. Or even been started *after* the founding
Are we considering Picard's Family Album as a canon source??
Here's the entire article from the Founding of the Federation News Article:
------------------ IT'S FEDERATION DAY! 5 sign new UFP Constitution
San Francisco, Earth (GNN)� Declaring it a landmark day in the history of each of their worlds, five envoys today breathed life into the fledgling United Federation of Planets with the signing of the new organization's Constitution amid much pomp and circumstance.
"We are truly entering a brave new world of peace, exploration, and security with the establishment of this Federation," declared Earth ambassador Thomas Vanderbilt, whose remarks were echoed by representatives from Vulcan, Andor, Tellar and Alpha Centauri.
"Following the end of your world's war with the unseen Romulan enemy, such a union as we create here today is the most logical course of action any of our peoples can take," added Ambassador T'Jan of Vulcan.
UESPA Maj. Gen. Georges E. Picard, an aide to Vanderbilt, noted afterward the irony of the conference�which met in exactly the same fashion as the founders of Earth's old United Nations, who came together only 216 years earlier in this same city in the aftermath of the horrors of another costly war.
"What is occurring here today is one sign that some good can come of such a attitude," Picard noted.
"We defy anyone, even the Romulans, to test our resolve now for collective security," declared Ambassador Nartha Kell of Tellar, while Sarahd of Andor spoke of the future greatness for the infant union and predicted rapid expansion. Ambassador Titus Cheet signed for the newly independant Centauri system.
Today's events were but the ceremonial endgame for the often-tenuous negotiations, which began in earnest after the defeat of hostile forces at Cheron effectively ended the Romulan War only a little more than a year ago. Even today, some sources reported a bitter fracas involving the Tellarite Kell and Sarahd.
Although those taking part today waved off revealing many specific details. The five, after signing, immediately convened the first-ever meeting of the UFP Council long enough to elect Vanderbilt as president, with Sarahd as vice president.
Also, the Council unanimously voted to continue meeting in San Francisco, with an all-new building in the design stages near the historic old Presidio fort and Golden Gate Bridge. Council sources predicted at least three months would be needed before the fledgling UFP bureaucracy would be ready for business. ------------------
So this sounds like the Earth-Romulan war ended 'more than a year' before the founding of the Federation, which would make the treaty 2159 or possibly 2160.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Ah, yes! So easy to forget about...but so very very cool.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
Man, that'd be an excellent cameo for Patrick Stewart...come back as like his great-great grandfather, Georges Picard.
I've read it before, but it's definitely a great find!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:"We defy anyone, even the Romulans, to test our resolve now for collective security," declared Ambassador Nartha Kell of Tellar, while Sarahd of Andor spoke of the future greatness for the infant union and predicted rapid expansion. Ambassador Titus Cheet signed for the newly independant Centauri system.
This just means that the Romulans had skirmishes with a couple of the Federation's other founding member prior to the founding of the Fed.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: I bought the book as well, and while an interesting read, I felt sort of cheated by the final depiction of what really happened with the Tomed Incident. I don't know; I guess I just feel it loses the sacrifice that I had imagined.
I agree; I enjoyed the book but feel that the way the incident occured in it was a bit of a sell-out. IMO the writer went a bit too far in the 'ivulnerable Federation' direction. I agree with Harry that it would've made more sense to have the incident involve a cloaked Federation vessel on the wrong side of the border.
quote: Are we considering Picard's Family Album as a canon source??
I'd forgotten about that; one of the most interesting incredibly obscure finds that've been made.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wraith:
quote:
I agree; I enjoyed the book but feel that the way the incident occured in it was a bit of a sell-out. IMO the writer went a bit too far in the 'ivulnerable Federation' direction. I agree with Harry that it would've made more sense to have the incident involve a cloaked Federation vessel on the wrong side of the border.
I agree about the book's ending...although I think it had a very TOS feel to it. The books worth reading for the depictions of Harriman and Demora Sulu alone...and the transwarp tech described in the USS Universe was great as well.
Really, the book would have been perfect if the Fed really did suffer all those casualties despite Harriman's plan.
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