In First Contact artist John Eaves starting coming up with a USS Endeavour, a new ship whose role was later given to the Defiant so Worf could easily get in the movie. The Endeavor was mentioned during the battle however, it wasn't clear whether it is the Nebula-class ship or the newer one Eaves was coming up with until now.
Apparently it was the same, and it was the Endeavour that was the sole surviving ship. At least that's what the new encyclopedia claims based on the fact that Voyager's computer had a quote from that ships captain about the Borg he obvisously came out of Wolf 359 alive.
Of course it's easily possible for him to of escaped in an escape pod as well. I just thought I'd share that bit of information.
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[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited September 28, 1999).]
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*checks the Star Trek Archive*
Nebula Class:
USS Lexington
NCC-61832
ST Encyclopedia 2, ST:FC
(visually identified this class)
DS9 "Explorers"
Captain Amisov of the Nebula-class USS Endeavour, NCC-71805 - name established in "Scorpion," ship seen (?) in "Redemption II," mentioned in "The Game," maybe mentioned in comm traffic in ST:FC (acc. to Encyclopaedia 2?) - encountered the Borg sometime prior to 2371, because the logs of the encounter are in Voyager's records.
Also mentioned in ST:FC comm traffic is the USS Lexington, NCC-61832, also visually identified in "Explorers" to be Nebula-class.
One Nebula is seen in the battle in ST:FC. There is no way of knowing which one it is.
Originally the ship commanded by that admiral in ST:FC was going to be a new class, with this example called the Endeavour. This ship, the linchpin of the defense fleet, would be seen to be destroyed as the Enterprise came on the scene, leaving the way open for Picard to lead them to victory. This concept was then scrapped in favour of having the Defiant present so as to bring Worf into the film. The concept of the destruction, now of the Defiant, survived for several more drafts before politics with the DS9 staff ensured its survival.
No evidence remains that the Nebula-class Endeavour was the command ship for the fleet. Whether or not this ship survived the battle is unknown.
Furthermore, the Endeavour has not previously been included in lists of ships present at Wolf 359 (the only known example of an encounter between the Borg and Starfleet vessels other than the Enterprise), although at least one Nebula was present (and it's not the Melbourne!). Conventional wisdom has it that the one surviving ship implied by the '39 ships destroyed out of 40' is the Cheyenne-class USS Ahwahnee.
Therefore either the assumption about the Ahwahnee is flawed, and it was the Endeavour that survived - or both did.
The only other option - and to my mind the most likely one - is that the Endeavour encountered the Borg at some other place and time, and lived to tell the tale. There are two problems with this:
1. They've always been fairly certain about the number of Borg incursions there have been. On the other hand, it's nice to think that the Enterprise doesn't have to be the only ship that's ever met them!
2. Nebulas don't seem to be able to survive that much, especially not the Borg!
Instant SWDAO? 8)
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"Have you seen blood in the moonlight, Will? It appears quite black."
- Dr. Hannibal Lecktor (Brian Cox), Manhunter (Michael Mann, 1986)
I still conjecture that the Endeavor was the Admiral's illfated ship in FC. The Nebula could have been the Lexington.
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The Ahwahnee was at Wolf 359. You can see it, in fact. It was also in the blockade fleet in "Redemption II" therefore it survived (it did look intact). So either the crew had to abandon ship, maybe due to loss of life support, or they died onboard for the same reason. This might lead people to consider the ship to have survived.
After all, we never saw the Endeavour explicitly in FC.
And the regisries have never been the best, really.
Then the Nebula seen in FC could be the Lexington.
And the only survivor of Wolf 359 could be the Anwahnee, and be seen in 'Redemption II'.
And all the Forumites could live happily ever after.
I must admit to not knowing about the Nebula
in FC until now, but I'm seriously against the notion that the original Endeavour had a seperate encounter with the Borg, other than being whipped at 359.
Come to think of it, any captain assigned to the Endeavour hasn't fared too well against the Borg. ;-
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Here's the sketches of the Endeavor though.
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Braga and Menosky's script of "Scorpion, Part I" spells it Amasov. Honest. That's the right spelling this time, all.
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Also, did Capt. Amasov's log explicitly state that the Endeavour had encountered the Borg? Maybe he was just one of SF's "experts" on them, like Hanson or Shelby.
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On the other hand, TSN does have a point. He need not have directly encountered the Borg to write a report about them. (Though I think Janeway specifically mentioned she was reading from his logbook...)
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I'd have to say that based on the fact that we saw a Nebula at 359 and the log entry Janeway read, we'd have to say the Endeavour was the surivor.
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Then ethere's the registries of the two ships: 73620 and 71620. That's not a coincidence. They must have been meant to be the same, only one was wrong.
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"Have you seen blood in the moonlight, Will? It appears quite black."
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Let's face it, crap writing has left us with TWO survivors of Wolf 359. Either it's as Tim says, that the '40 ships' was only a rough number, while the '39 ships destroyed' is an exact one, or there's another explanation. But to suddenly say after all these years, "oh, the Ahwahnee didn't survive after all, it was the Endeavour all along" is absurd. Especially when the only evidence is two registries with only a one-digit difference.
OK. We know that 39 ships were destroyed at 359. I don't believe that anyone ever said 39 FEDERATION ships, just 39 ships. We know that Starfleet was sending 40 ships. We also know that there was at least one Klingon ship there (thanks to Voy's "Unity"), which gives us a minimum total of 41 ships. That leaves at least two unacounted for. Of course, it's always possible that Admiral Whosit was rounding up, and that 'Fleet actually sent 39 ships, and that that one BoP was the only Klingon ship there, but that doesn't seem too likely.
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For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
- H. L. Mencken
Which brings us to the point we may have here, that one of these ships actually SURVIVED and managed to get away (the Endeavour), and that another (perhaps the free-floating Ahwahnee) was re-built. That is, badly damaged enough to require a complete overhaul and perhaps considered 'destoyed' in the formal figures given in Picard's courtmartial.
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Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
[This message has been edited by jh (edited September 29, 1999).]
As for the lower registries, should I mention the Prometheus?
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"I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko
I thing the problem with the registries is
that there is a lack of communication between
the different production companies that work
to make an episode or film of Star Trek and a
a lack of effort to ensure that things are
not forgotten or altered.
From the few e-mails I have had with Mr.
Okuda, I would suggest that Mr. Okuda works
in a limited and confined part of Star Trek's
production. He produces the okudagrams,
supervises some of the modeling when asked to
be involved, and writes coffee table books.
He has limited contact with the other members
of the production company or companies. And
there are times when he makes errors when he
should know better-the USS Raman's registry.
For the reasons cited, I feel honestly that
there will never be a "complete" encyclopedia
or a lack of inconsistency in Star Trek.
I see this problem at work. An employee is
assigned to a department and supervised by a
manager. He or she develops tunnel
vison-concentrating solely on the job,
interacting sparsely with the other employees
of a different department, and thinking about
how to make the job better. When this
individual becomes a manager, he or she
carries the traits they developed as a
non-manager. This can result in a lack of
communication or understanding.
To apply this understanding to Star Trek,
USS Prometheus as example
Mr. Okuda sees the USS Prometheus as being
NX-74913. The dedication plaque and the MSD,
which he supervises, are both labeled with
this registry.
In the CGI modeling, the modelers see the
registry as different. They understand the
ship to be a prototype. However, their
understanding of registries as laid out by
Mr. Okuda is limited. They give the ship the
registry NX-59650.
These are two separate departments within two
distinctly unique companies. They communicate
enough information to get the following
information to each other-the USS Prometheus
is a newer ship, the class ship of a class of
advanced warships, the ship can become three
ships, etc. The details are seen differently,
resulting in errors.
For in company example of lack of
communication, I mistakenly asked Mr.
Okuda if he knew what the class designations
of the USS Centaur and the USS Curry. I was
asking for the classes of each ship. Mr.
Okuda responded that he didn't know the class
designations. He remembered, unassuredly,
that Mr. Sternbach had done something with
the issue and might know.
The question is, Who has the most knowledge?
There is no definitive answer. The best
approach is to take the different views of
the individuals or groups involved and
attempt to come to a understanding that you
can accept and be comfortable with.
For me, I accept and am comfortable with the
following
* Registry 70000 to 71000
First introduced in the late 2350's
* Registry 71000 to 72000
First introdued in the early 2360's
* Registry 72000 to 73000
First introduced in the mid 2360's
* Registry 73000 to 74000
First introduced in the late 2360's
* Registry 74000 to 75000
First introduced in the late 2360's
* Registry 75000 to 76000
First introduced in the early 2370's
The USS Ahwahnee in 2367 had the registry NCC-71620
The USS Prometheus in 2374 had the registry NX-74913
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"I am Sci-Fi"
-The 359
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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Just a thought...A grain of salt-season to taste-lather, rinse, repeat
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"I am Sci-Fi"
-The 359
This is a second attempt post. Hope it's not a double post, but I don't think I followed the directions correctly the first time.
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Just a thought...A grain of salt-season to taste-lather, rinse, repeat
Now for the Endeavourthough the uncertainty of the endeavour's status at this point, being that it was refrenced to after 359 and considering the pristege of the ship i have concluded that; it was not at 359 and that the Endeavour has encountered the Borg through its voyages.
take it that the vast space the federation has, when a borg cube ventures into the federation the odds of encountering the Enterprise under the command of Picard everytime is not possible, therefore other ships should have encounter the borg
As for our Ahwahnee situation, if Starfleet salvaged the ship and gave it a new registry number, shouldn't they also just renamed the ship? So I doubt that Starfleet would do that. It's the same ship at Wolf 359 with the same name and registry number. But the little mixup with the registry could be due to human error.
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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How your love's affecting our reality
Everytime we're down
You can make it right
And that makes you larger than life"
-Backstreet Boys