So, should we panic or celebrate? Most people are going to have flashbacks to the hastily prepared ship section of the DS9 tech. manual. However, I think there is reason to hope. For one, this book would presumably be dedicated to ships, ships, and nothing but ships. Now, the parts of the DS9 manual that were actually about DS9 were wonderful, in my opinion. Hence, I would say that, with focus, we could expect some lovely or at least entertaining information.
Thoughts?
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"If you are going to be my girlfriend please don't dump me after I like you."
--
Michael
--Baloo
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Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul.
--Mark Twain
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
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Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent.
Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside?
Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
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-You're crazy!!!
-I thought I was pisces!
Methinks 'tis all a wicked, wicked lie.
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"You will be swept away....
You, your men, your ship, your WORLDS!"
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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
But yes, you'ns should probably offer aid and assistance, since we don't want to se a rehash of the ships section from DS9TM. Let them know THAT, too.
Personally, what I think we/they should be aiming for is "Jane's Starships." Perhaps in a multi-volume set, if that would save on cost...
2002: Vol 1: Jane's Federation Starships
2003: Vol 2: The Allies: Klingon, Romulan and Cardassian Starships
2004: Vol 3: The Players: Ferengi, Breen, Gorn, Tholian, Bajoran, Dominion, Borg, 8472, etc.
2005: Vol 4: Merchants, Pirates, Private Vessels, and One-shots.
Of course, you could rearrange the above to make better sense, but The concept is sound.
At least offer solutions to problems we seem to have resolved... let THEM figure out the size of the Defiant. In any case, I wouldn't expect to see this product until at LEAST 2002... if they intend to do better than a half-a$$ed job on it.
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Baloo and I have been reading the same books :)
no seriously... a few firm helping hands would keep them on track - they must REALISE that all 253 or so of us would automatically go out an BUY this book if it was done correctly... if it was seriously rooted - then they've wasted their money haven't they...
so.
who's contacting them then...
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Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent.
Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside?
Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
In addition to six-side schematics, which may be better than normal reuses of the Illustrator graphics used in the Encyclopedias, I want to see several correct 3/4 views of each canon ship. This would include the new ones like the Raven, the Centaur, the Yeager Class, the Shelley Class, etc.
These should be good, quality CGI pics not just fuzzy screen caps.
Publish it in paperback so'z we can all afford it :-)
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"Resolve and thou art free."
The show is canon, everything else is Rick Sternbach's opinion. And whatever Gary Hutzel says about the Defiant is going to be more valid than whatever Rick Sternbach says on the subject, even within the context of a manual, because Gary Hutzel is making VFX, while Rick Sternbach has zero input into the whole thing.
Therefore, if the book is to succeed with us, Rick Sternbach would -have- to contact two main groups: the Visual Effects and the designers. Ideally, the entries would be reviewed by these people, however, a couple of phone-calls would also be sufficient. I mean, what's the next best thing to visually determining the origin of Defiant's phaser emissions? Knowing where a visual effects supervisor would put them in. If he doesn't have anything planned out, even a mere "we'll if I had to I'd put them riight here" would be valuable.
And of course, increased interaction between Rick Sternbach and the Visual Effects works both ways, with the latter providing his tremendous background knowledge to the crew, which means better consistency for us poor analysts.
Boris
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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."
---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 14, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 14, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Boris (edited November 14, 1999).]
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
The starship book: six views on a double page, no distracting lettering ("this is a window"), high-resolution images on another page, MSD's. I would pay a lot for a really well-considered book of this kind.
On the other hand, imagine the following: The Defiant is still 170m and has still 4 decks, the BoP comes in 5 sizes, the Sydney is a runabout, the Niagara looks as depicted in the FF, this time proven by model photos. I wonder if they manage to abandon all views that have been previously established and create a consistent and reliable book.
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
Here's what I think we need for EVERY canon class:
1. An Intro to each ship with stats, the design group logo, and some cool looking type faces
2. A Six-view plan (like mentioned above spanning 2 pages). These should be the great kind of illustrations like the Breen ship and the Prometheus from the Magazine.
3. A cutaway deck chart in the likeness of the master systems display.
4. Original CGI images of the ships in flight-at least 3 or 4.
If done well, and designed nicely, this could be a killer volume!
They would need to be careful about going overboard and establishing a bunch of facts that are just going to be changed later though.
They could also design a couple of the non-canon ships (cool original designs *flashes back to DS9TM*) like the Sequoia and the Wambundu.
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"Resolve and thou art free."
Think I really have to post a reply on this subject (actually my first ever)!
I've been waiting for a book like that for years and, to agree with Bernd, if it is well made it should be worth a few extra $$$. (By the way, Bernd, greetings from a fellow "Currywurst"!)
How about a special section dedicated to design studies and models that never made it to the screen (as in "The Art of Star Trek)?
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oh behave!!
Filler.
Let's face it, there's not a great deal of info about these ships. So what will they have to do? Make things up. And the fans aren't going to accept it in the same spirit they did the TNGTM - no, they'll find fault with everything. Nothing will fir in with what they think. No wonder they're in no hurry to do such a book, they know it'll be a waste of time.
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"You will be swept away....
You, your men, your ship, your WORLDS!"
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"Resolve and thou art free."
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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet
So now we're into the Nineties, and we can do even more of the same, just better! How 'bout we all pool our resources to make an expandable set of, say, PDF or MS Publisher files that people can print off as they wish, containing as much info as we can find?
The nice thing about it being a fan production is that it will be more accurate than an official one and we can clear up all those pesky SWDAOs, put in conjectural ships, and blueprint all the known variants - as well as our own creations!
All in favour of starting this as a project??
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WARNING: Storing semtex in the microwave
may be hazardous to your health!
Perhaps it WOULD be possible for the Niagara to exist as portrayed in the Fact Files. The key issue is, where did TPTB find an Ambassador secondary hull when there were no AMT kits to go by during the filming of "BoBW"? And one at first ridiculous-sounding possibility is that they actually used the Ambassador photographic model.
Hold that thought (and that mean-looking fist!) for a while and let me finish. We know the secondary hull of the Ent-C model got an extensive revamping after its initial appearance, for some truly mysterious reason. Simple repairing of "battle damage" would certainly not have necessitated all the changes - least of all the recontouring of the aft hull, something that is difficult to do with just gluing on pieces of plastic. But if the original secondary hull was lost at some point between "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the appearance of the "Yamaguchi version" of the ship, then the differently shaped secondary hull and all the trouble in "re-"mounting it to the saucer would be explained.
Perhaps the reason the original secondary hull was lost was that it was used as raw material for creating the Niagara? That would require the existence of correctly sized Galaxy nacelles, but not much else. The saucer is some sort of a scratchbuild anyway, if we believe the FF (and their Freedom, sharing the saucer, seems halfway credible at least). Could the nacelles come from the 1/1400 Enterprise-D? The real size of the E-C model is hard to judge, but it *seems* to be in the very upper limit of the ballpark.
The modelmakers themselves might have been so unsatisfied with the results that the Niagara never got a prominent showing in "BoBW". Or then it simply was a tie between the various kitbashes, and Freedom, proto-Nebula and that Excelsior study model won the screen spot.
Okay, stop holding the thought (and the fist), and let fly.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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Remo Williams: "Chiun, you're amazing!"
Chiun: "No! I am BETTER than that!"
- Remo: Unarmed and Dangerous (1986)
TSN: Just speculation. If the Niagara looks like in the FF, the model and all possibly existing photos should be eradicated. Krenim, do your job!
Austin: Welcome to the Forum. Actually, I have stolen the Curry from our resident but often absent Curry God. Only the Wurst is indigenous.
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
Anyway, I sort of like the Niagara saucer/secondary hull configuration. Of course the nacelles jar badly, and the pylons are quite unlike anything we have seen before or after. So if the Niagara (or the Rigel) looks anything like the FF but with a Constitution secondary hull, then what little good qualities it has are lost.
It is very difficult to do a good-looking three-naceller without making it look out of balance. If you put the third one atop the ship, the thing just gets top-heavy. If you put it down below, it looks as if you took a normal starship and grafted something to it that doesn't belong. And putting two to port and one to starboard isn't going to help, either
Timo Saloniemi
For those of you who may not know that, at the simon and schuster star trek web page, (simonandschuster.com/startrek) there is a link to the editors' logs, on which messages and comments to the editors can be left. They make an effort to answer all the messages they get there. Margaret Clark and John Ordover each have their own page.
More useless(?) info: the current book publishing schedule (through 2000, and some beyond) can be found on psiphi's page (psiphi.org)
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Baloo and I have been reading the same books :)
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Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent.
Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside?
Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
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"And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave."
--
Will Rigby
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"Resolve and thou art free."
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
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"Resolve and thou art free."
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"And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave."
--
Will Rigby
like the Encyclopaedia...------------------
Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent.
Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside?
Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
I would nominate RW (what, this surprises you?) and.. um.. Oh, crud, I can't remember who designed the Sentinel. Lee, was that you? Oh, and Frank, just to have someone on the team to balance the exuberance.
(There's a starship name... NCC-74302, USS Exuberance.)
I'd nominate Cargile, too, but he seems to be MIA and he never posted my ships. *SIGH*
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Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
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"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."
A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness"
Ex Astris Scientia
WTF?
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"You will be swept away....
You, your men, your ship, your WORLDS!"
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Frank's Home Page
"Anarchias de meizon ouk estin kakon." - Creon
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"General Hammond: Request permission to beat the crap out of this man."
-Colonel O'Neill, Stargate: SG-1: "Bane"
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Wes Button � [email protected]
TechFX Graphics � The United Federation Uplink � AxisIRC
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Janeway: "Dimissed"
Neelix: [stands there dumbfounded] "b..but.."
Janeway: "That's Starfleet for get out"
--Baloo
P.S.: I still have my Star Fleet Technical Manual and Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual.
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It is less important that you agree with me than it is for you to to understand what I'm saying.
http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm
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"Naomi Wildman, sub-unit of Ensign Samantha Wildman, state your intentions." (VOY: "Infinite Regress")
Ex Astris Scientia