Flare Sci-Fi Forums: "Waltz" (DS9)

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Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

I should actually place this in the DS9 forum but as that place is near-death and the matter concerns S&OT more then DS9-business I thought I'd place it here anyway.

In Waltz, the U.S.S. Honchu (forgive the sp!) is attacked and destroyed by... 3 (I believe) Galors! First of all, how come that a Nebula-class starship can lose a fight with 3 of those pathetical buckets, and second, how come they didn't appear to "notice" them (thus they didn't raise the shields either - there would have been a red alert situation if they had done so) coming until they openened fire?! I mean, the E-D's sensors could "see" up to 10 LY's away! So what is going on? Can the cardies just pop up out of nowhere, or is this another typical example of "ST technical consultants-error"?

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, there have been varying types of Galors...the really powerful "Type-3" ones, the "destroyers" from SoA, and the transports with "no weapons to speak of." And it took two Galaxies to disable just one (probably of the "destroyer" type) in SoA. I imagine that the Honshu did see the Galors coming, but it couldn't outrun or defend itself against them.

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Frank's Home Page
"I'm still amazed at how unintuitive the Windows world is and how it tries to mimic the Mac." - John de Lancie

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Firstly, where have we seen a Galor with "no weapons to speak of"?

Secondly, IIRC, the Honshu was said to be attacked by an "attack wing of Cardassian destroyers" or somesuch, with no number or class given. Considering that nobody seemed remotely prepared for the attack at the time it came, it stands to reason the Cardies avoided detection somehow before striking. "Surprise attacks" seemed to have become more common by late DS9... in episodes like Penumbra and TF+TGR Jemmies appearead right on the tail of runabouts without a word of warning.

<hypothesis> Perhaps in wartime both sides erect large, possibly planetside, scrambler stations that take out long-range sensors? </hypothesis>

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The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

That was Dukat's description of the Galor in WotW.

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Frank's Home Page
"I'm still amazed at how unintuitive the Windows world is and how it tries to mimic the Mac." - John de Lancie

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

after they were trashed by 3 BOP's...

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Yes, the weapons-grid had probably been disabled and the remaining power rerouted to shields and life-support.

This is just an assumption, but since all cardassian ships are beige-brown, could they be composed of the same general ceramic alloys like the Kazon's "borrowed" ships?

The ships attacking the Honshu could've been enhanced by Dominion engineers. Since the cardassian fleet was destroyed during the Klingon offensive the Galor's and Keldon's that appeared in SoA and later battle-ep's probably were built under dominion control and dito resources.

Plus, if they approached the Honshu head-on, wouldn't that give it less time to prepare than if they had pursued it? Although it shouldn't take that much time to say "red alert". Maybe a spotty ensign got the nightshift!

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Somehow we're going somewhere.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited January 15, 2000).]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The captain was drunk, the XO was in bed w/ the operations officer, and the security officer was taking target practice w/ some Cardassian prisoners in an emptied-out cargo bay. They left the helmsman in charge on the bridge, but he fell asleep.

Or maybe the stuff you other guys said, I don't know. :-)

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"The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate."
-Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Actually, the captain would have been in bed with the XO, the First Officer would have been consulting a couple of Vulcans about how to get her love life back on track, the chief engineer would have been wrestling with a Mugato, and the operations officer would have been slugging it out with her mum in the cargo bay about who gets to bed Dukat. The security chief would have been sharing the cell with Dukat, calling it "the local Cardassian Embassy" to make the patient feel better, but he'd just gone to take a leak when Sisko arrived. The helmsman would have been asleep, though (or at least looked like it).

Anyway, by the time of "Waltz", one would assume that Galors would no longer be in the puny pre-Dominion configuration. Instead, the big guns in the middle of their deflectors would be up to their "What You Leave Behind" specs, slicing'n dicing.

And one could actually say that the Nebula was honored by the attack - Cardassians thought it a worthwhile effort to dedicate numerous ships to ambushing her.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Maybe Weyoun or Damar ordered the attack on the Honshu. Especially if they knew if Gul Dukat was on there. That's probably why it was such a lucrative target.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :

I don't think they knew Dukat was there since when he finally shows back up they are all shock and suprised.

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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

They were probably shocked and surprised because he wasn't killed in the attack...

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"You insulted Shakespeare? I'm telling."
-Miss Bate

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Uh, Timo, the XO is usually the first officer!!!!

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, if she was doing the captain, maybe she needed to consult Vulcans on her love life... *LOL*

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Umm.. Doesn't anybody else here read "New Frontier"?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Yes. But if you ask me, having Shelby as the first officer and Mueller as the XO, making them two separate positions seems ridiculous to me..

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"You insulted Shakespeare? I'm telling."
-Miss Bate

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Erm... I believe "executive officer" and "first officer" are equivalent. They can't be two different people. That would be like making the captain (position, not rank) and the commanding officer two different people. If you're the commanding officer, you're automatically the captain. If you're the executive officer, you're automatically the first officer.

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Indeed. Using two positions for the titles is like considering "Commodore" and "Rear Admiral (lower half)" to be two different ranks. Ahem.

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Frank's Home Page
John Linnell: "This song is called...it's called..."
Audience: "Louisiana! Montana!"
John Linnell: Don't tell me what it's called..."

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

That's completely different. That's a revision of the rank system... *L*

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Col. Maybourne: "Teal'c... It's good to see you well."
Teal'c: "In my culture, I would be well within my rights to dismember you."
-Stargate SG-1: "Touchstone"

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

"Revision" does not mean the same thing as "corruption," you know. :P

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Frank's Home Page
John Linnell: "This song is called...it's called..."
Audience: "Louisiana! Montana!"
John Linnell: Don't tell me what it's called..."

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

PAD tries to explain away his gaffe/"choice" by saying that there's a separate XO for day and night watches, and only the day-watch one gets to be the 1st Officer of the ship (presumably the night-watch XO gets the 2nd Officer spot). Funny how the Excalibur is the only ship in the Trek universe to have this arrangement so far...

Personally, I think Shelby is the real 1st Officer of that ship, and Mueller is simply the Officer in charge of Executions...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

*L*

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"Move your mind, it's gonna cost you nothing"
-Eiffel 65, Move Your Body