Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Bradbury class

This is topic Bradbury class - non canon topic in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OK through a link at Bernd's page I found this site... his models are very good - and out of all the crud out there on the net that I've seen as an idea for the Bradbury class - I would be so happy to see this as the Bradbury class. Have a looksie:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markusn/art/uss_mareja/uss_mareja1.jpg

cool eh?

what do you think - it has the right balance between Intrepid and Galaxy I think.

Andrew

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"What a wonderful and amazing scheme have we here of the magnificent vastness of the Universe! So many Suns, so many Earths...!" - Christian Huygens, New Conjectures Concerning the Planetary Worlds, Their Inhabitants and Productions (ca 1670)

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The only problem is, it's just an Intrepid with different nacelles! The Bradbury was still in prototype stages when it was mentioned. I would think it would look at least a little different. Why would Starfleet build two ship classes almost exactly the same. (Please don't bring up the Miranda/ Soyuz thing. That could undermine my arguement

) I just don't like kitbashes all that much.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

Besides, there is no canon proof of what any part of the Bradbury looks like. It doesn't have to look like an Intrepid, a Galaxy, or a cross between the two. And most likly doesn't.

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7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."
Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"
7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."

Posted by Markus on :

Yup, it is indeed just an standard Intrepid with different pylons and nacelles, nothing more. It's supposed to be a Dominion War rush job. Here's the full story...
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~markusn/art/uss_mareja/

Well, the REAL reason is I wanted to use the Intrepid nacelles in the kit for another project, but I didn't want the rest of the model to go to waste. Also the pictures were taken before I had painted in the windows, hence the BS about extra armor plating.

I'm glad you like it, Andrew, though I admit I never really thought of this model as a possible Bradbury. I'm actually kinda partial to the Bradbury designed by Bernd's ASDB group.

BTW, this is my very first post on Flare. Woo hoo! Now, how do you do those little yellow smileys?

Markus

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

For a plain smiley...use ": and )"
For a winking smiley...use ";" in place of ":"
And I think for a smiley with an open mouth: replace ")" with "o"
Okay, so I get a yawn instead!

Testing...

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7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."
Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"
7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."

[This message has been edited by PopMaze (edited February 24, 2000).]

Posted by Laz1701 on :

The first Bradbury design was the one I created six years ago (which seems to be the one upon which this one is based), and I can tell you that although I meant it as an intermediate step between the Galaxy and Intrepid, it's not an Intrepid with different nacelles. The entire hull is new, as well as the nacelles. The saucer is closer to the Galaxy saucer than the Intrepid, only it's stretched out to Intrepid proportions. And it's got two impulse engines at the back of the saucer, port and starboard. I created this design just after seeing a sketch of the Intrepid in TV Guide just before Voyager premiered.

There's a schematic of the Bradbury at the Starship Schematic Database site, but this one is just an attempt to duplicate my design using an Intrepid hull and Ambassador nacelles.

My Bradbury

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The Starship Encyclopedia

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Well, any fan design for the bradbury is almost 100% wrong. All of the fan ideas hold as much weight as every other one - none.

And Laz, your comments regarding "your" Bradbury are pretty concieted. Markus never said he based his idea of anything from "your" idea, which isn't all that imagnative either.

quote:
"but this one is just an attempt to duplicate my design using an Intrepid hull and Ambassador nacelles."

Sure it is. He's duplicating your design. Totally, and I suppose he should pay you royalties.

Jesus, how is this a copy of your design, and not an Intrepid model with Galaxy Nacelles because he didn't want to waste the kit.

Someone needs to get off their imaginary high horse.

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited February 24, 2000).]

Posted by Laz1701 on :

Conceited? I don't think it's conceited in the slightest to defend one's work. I get email all the time from people asking me why I've taken the Bradbury design they've seen on other sites (such as Starship Schematics) and changed it, because they have no idea I originated the design.

And while we're on the subject of "conceited", let me tell you something else I'm quite miffed about but which you never hear me complaining about. But I'll do so now. And that's that people all over the net think they can take my drawings from my site and use them on their own sites without any permission or acknowledgement whatsoever. Not to mention all the kitbashes using nothing but parts of the ships I've drawn. These sites don't even have the courtesy to provide a link to mine - where they got the images in the first place. Hell, even Fabrux started distributing a ship kit which is nothing but a collection of my parts without ever asking for permission first. I've been drawing these ships for over six years now, and they're all over the net, and some people even think my site is newer than other sites and uses drawings made by other people.

I've never complained about any of this because there's not much I can do about it, and I don't want to be tight-a**ed like Paramount. But it's getting ridiculous.

Conceited, huh? I think not. Just fed up with the lack of simple courtesy and careless violation of the copyright notice on my site.

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The Starship Encyclopedia

Posted by Laz1701 on :

Also, don't put words in my mouth. My statement about duplication of my design using an Intrepid hull and Ambassador nacelles doesn't refer to Markus's model, but to the schematic at Starship Schematics.

Another example of what pisses me off are the various original designs I created for conjectural classes which people have taken from my site, blown up and reduced to grayscale, and then submitted to Starship Schematics under their own names.

Lastly, you can dispense with the facetious "your" design when referring to the Bradbury I drew. The quotes aren't necessary, because it *is* my design.

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The Starship Encyclopedia

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Defense of one's work is fine. In fact, it's admirable.

BUT (and a big f*cking one at that), there's a difference between defending your own work and condeming people because THEIR work SLIGHTLY resembles yours.

I see similarities between both of your pieces. Do I think his design is in anyway a 'rip-off' of yours? No way.

Nowhere did he say "Okay, this is Laz1701's design, but an Intrepid hull and Galaxy Nacelles."

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

I agree with your attitudes towards people who give no credit to your work and do not feel the need to give proper credit.

Hell, that's the reason I don't create ships anymore. (Well, not online.)

The only thing I was upset at was the fact that it seemed you were deeming Mark's design as nothing more than yours, slightly altered.

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"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
-Mark Twain

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Woah - can I just say my little comment has been blown ALL out of proportion - I just wanted to say the I really liked Markus's ship - hey Laz - I think your idea for a Bradbury - is on the mark - a step between Galaxy and Intrepid... I'm just delighted to see a spiffy really touchy physical real life model of it - or something close... whats wrong with Starfleet R&D saying - "hey! - we worked out the "Intrepid" saucer section - but we're still having trouble with the whole 'variable' warp nacelles - I think if we just use pre-existing Galaxy nacelles - we can get a fair idea of how the new 'Intrepid' saucer section will pan out..."

I think Laz - you do a great job with your ships - and its a pity that those ship kits out there never credit to you - at least in a Read Me file in the zip file... I never knew you did those ships until I saw your site linked from here, at Flare.

Once again - NO one knows what the Bradbury looks like - but what is wrong with "In a different world" having Markus's ship as the Bradbury - if it ever got onto screen - I wouldn't be complaining - I'd rather see that ship than the kitbashes we saw in DS9 or the new FC ships - it makes MUCH more sense... Remember Starfleet ships used to be about Technology unchained - which Markus' ship is - not something COMPLETELY new like the Steamrunner or the Saber...

Markus - I just want to ignore your 'backstory' if you will just for my own fantasies of seeing this as an actual INTENTIONALLY built ship by Starfleet - not an ugly kitbash.

Andrew

Posted by Laz1701 on :

Okay, maybe I jumped the gun, and if so, my apologies to Markus regarding the inspiration of his design. But this has been a very touchy subject for me for quite a while, and I've kept quiet about it because 1) I didn't want to come off as tight-a**ed, and 2) If I cried foul every time a site swipes one of my drawings or designs, I'd have little time for anything else. I suppose these two Bradbury threads finally set me off, whether or not there was reason for it. I'm very proud of my Bradbury design and like it the most of all my conjectural designs, and every time somebody thinks it's based on similar designs they've seen which came later, it really bugs me no end.

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The Starship Encyclopedia

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Not to belittle the effort put into the above ships or arguments, but...

Isn't the Bradbury class actually a rather boring one to create models of, or argue about? As far as we know, the Bradbury was an unsuccessful prototype. We've never heard of that class of ships after the single reference to the NX-registered initial vessel. Other off-screen ships like Renaissances seem more fruitful venues for development, since they pop up several times in the Encyclopedia.

And a ship with NX-72307 (higher than anything except the runabouts, the Defiants and the Intrepids) might already have been testing Sovereign-style or Nova-style tech instead of the Intrepid stuff that already was in actual production by NCC-74656. A really radically experimental ship might be more interesting than an evolutionary step between Galaxy and Intrepid.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

To throw my lot in with Timo, I've always envisioned the Bradbury as being a very odd and imaginatively designed ship. Not that that means anything, I suppose.

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"You are stupid and evil and do not know you are stupid and evil."
--
Gene Ray, Cubic

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :

Markus, Laz... excellent jobs!
My personal interpretation of the Bradbury, if it were a prototype resembling the Intrepid, would be closer to Laz's design (which reminds me slightly of Adam Heinbuch's USS Frontier), but possibly with a more Intrepid-style hull and the swept-back nacelles Markus uses... However that doesn't mean Markus' work is invalid.
Remember, gentlemen, IDIC: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. In other words, we are all allowed to have our own ideas of the Star Trek universe! Believe me, I have done fanfics that some people would dismiss because they involve, for example, the appearance of a dimensional rift and a rather ugly-looking ship called the USS Sulaco, and a certain Lt. Ripley - but other people like them. I wouldn't have written them if I didn't!

Here's a thought: maybe Laz and Markus would like to collaborate on a new idea together? Or possibly, given the outstanding nature of both designs, you could work together to fuse them and create something totally new and different?

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Remember Markus' didn't make his ship to be a Bradbury class - it is his own original 'kitbash' from the Dominion War...

*I* Said wouldn't it be cool to have that as the Bradbury. Its not a great leap to think that the Bradbury is somewhere between the Galaxy and the Intrepid...

I'm not the only one to think this - Laz has also done a long time ago - some nice diagrams of his version of the Bradbury - remember... there is no known bradbury people...

Andrew

Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :

I know that Markus' design was not intended to be the Bradbury and that you said wouldn't it be cool if... that was why I expressed my opinion. Besides, there is no reason that there can't be more than one Bradbury design out there. Like I said in my other post, don't forget about IDIC! We can all design our own Trek universes if we want to...
Given the late date of Markus' design (Dominion War), it is unlikely to be a Bradbury candidate for *his* universe. Doesn't mean I can't (after asking and being given permission) borrow the design, draw up some plans and say "In my universe, this is the USS Bradbury", or even create one of my own!
And no matter what my opinion is, I mean no disrespect to any of our designers - Cargile, Baloo, Laz, Markus, anyone - because they work so hard to give us their ideas, and I admire them for their artistic ability and creative vision. Just because I express an opinion or a preference, doesn't mean I think one is better than another - just that one design might fit more closely with my idea of an unseen ship than another.

Anyway. Rant over.
AFAIK, the lowdown on the Bradbury is that it is an Intrepid prototype... although I don't think this is canon. So it could be Laz's design, Markus's design, or even the study model in The Art of Star Trek! So because we have not seen it and know very little about the ship other than that it exists, practically anything goes... Like I said, IDIC - infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

BTW - as kitbashes go, it's a hell of a lot better than the ones in the DS9 tech manual!

Kudos to our designers! Keep it up...

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"

[This message has been edited by Starbuck (edited February 25, 2000).]

Posted by Markus on :

Wow, this discussion has really taken an interesting turn. Are you trying to scare me away?

Thanks for the compliments. Just once more for the record, my model (USS Mareja) was never supposed to be the Bradbury, nor was it influenced by Laz's design. It's straight-up Rick Sternbach's Intrepid mated with Andy Probert's nacelles. The only thing I can take credit for is the pylon shape, and maybe the paint job. To me, it's still just an Intrepid-class.

Laz, I understand where you're coming from, so apology accepted, and no hard feelings. I, too, have had my material stolen and used without credit or permission so I know what it feels like. I know you're just watching out for yourself, rightfully so, and I can't blame you for that.

The web is a tough environment. It gives all of us a fair shot at sharing our work with the general public, but it also makes it so easy for others to take what we've made and claim it as their own. It's worth more to me to share what I've done and make others happy, than to just hide it and protect it where it's sure to do no one any good. The best I can hope for is that my designs will become well known enough that, even if someone steals them, people will still recognize them as mine.

The tough thing about kitbashes, is that given enough time and enough people working on them, duplicate designs are unavoidable. It becomes hard to tell what is property theft, and what is an honest coincidence. The funny thing is, USS Mareja is my only 'cut and paste kitbash', something I usually avoid. All my other kitbash models are far more original. I feel awkward thinking that this is the one design you know me by. I'd be happy to talk about this some more if anyone wants. Just start a new topic over on the Creativity forum.

I have it a little easier than you, Laz, and other digital artists, in that if anyone steals my photos, I can still pull out the physical model and say, "See? My idea." With purely digital images, once it's gone, it's tough to get back. I really hope this hasn't discouraged you too much. You have a lot of talent, and I hope you keep designing.

Sorry about continuing the drift, but this is a pretty important point Laz has brought up. Back on topic, like Timo and Sol System, I also think of the Bradbury as a completely radical and new ship, perhaps Lance Nutter's awesome wild looking design over at Bernd's ASDB site.

Andrew, thanks for your support. It's people like you who make me feel what I'm doing is worthwhile. Go ahead and ignore my 'backstory' and make up your own. As Starbuck reminds us, IDIC: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. That's what Star Trek is really about, where we can share and inspire each other's creativity and imagination.

PopMaze, thanks! I didn't know it draws the smiles automatically. I thought I had to import a file or something. This is cool. Maybe the open mouth is ":" and "D"?

Markus

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

You're welcome.

And thanks for your help as well. The open mouth is with the "D"

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7 alarm clock: "Do not touch me."
Dilbert: "Then how do I turn you off?"
7: "Believe me, I am plenty turned off."

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Laz: I don't think I can apologize enough for what I did. I honestly didn't think about crediting you because I saw so many sites with the same images on them. Take in mind that this was when I first started with a webpage. But, now I know and I credit you for the images. Learn from your mistakes

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Ross: "Inter arma, enim silent leges."
Bashir: "'In the time of war the law falls silent.' Cicero. Have we become a 24th-century Rome, driven by the fact that Caesar can do no wrong?!"
-Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

Posted by Laz1701 on :

Markus, I'm in full agreement.

On the subject of kitbashes, my Bradbury was never a kitbash, while your model is - and I have to say it's one of the better Intrepid kitbashes around. As you said in the "Defense of Kitbashes" thread, there's nothing wrong with kitbashes as long as they look feasable. There's an Intrepid sister class mentioned in tech fandom called the Kyuga, and if I hadn't already come up with my own design for it, I would have nominated your model for it.

On the subject of the Bradbury itself, I've always considered it not only an intermediate step between the Galaxy and Intrepid, but a failed class. Only the prototype was built, and the rest of the class was never built because the Intrepid design replaced it.

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The Starship Encyclopedia

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Y'know, the Bradbury itself wasn't necessarily the only one built. There are other classes of which we've only heard one member mentioned. Just because this one happened to be the prototype doesn't mean the class failed. The Prommie was the only Prometheus we've seen. Does that make it a failed class?

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Jay Leno: "In the story of 'Jack and the Beanstalk', what did the goose lay?"
"Bosco": "Everybody."
-The Tonight Show, "Jaywalking"

Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :

Maybe the Bradbury was designed for a specific scientific objective?

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We did it on the floor,
We did it by the door,
We did it all night,
We did it under a light,
So how about for tonight we do it some more...

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OK everyone GROUP HUG! LOL ;o)

OK firstly, Starbuck, I don't know if your rant was aimed at me , because my latest response in this thread was not aimed at you but in general to the thread... it seems that the thread has veered from it original purpose - just to get others gawking at Markus' nice model and seeing if I was crazy or not!?!

basically everyone, "In my universe - I'd like to something like Markus' ship - even if it wasn't a Bradbury

All I can say Laz - your designs inspired me to TRY my own - and Markus - your model work is really really good - I'm just a beginner modeller - so you give me something to aim for.

What colour do you use for the federation hull? I think my Voyager that I'm in the middle of is too dark...

and its a matte isn't it?

Andrew

Posted by Markus on :

I use a two tone grey scheme, FS36375 and FS36320 for Federation ships. It's pretty close to the Enterprise-D from Star Trek: Generations and the newer ships, like the First Contact ships, Voyager, Prometheus, etc. Not exact, but colors vary so much from studio to screen anyway.