What if the Excelsior refit is used the same way as the Keldon Class? For special (Section 31?) missions?
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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
I don't see the Enterprise-B using as a Section 31 ship. The Enterprise is to popular and well-known to do secret missions.
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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Maybe not the Enterprise B, but all the Excelsior refits that came after it.
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
But why use an excelsior class ship. Surely it be better for section 32 to use a ship that will not be noticed.
------------------ "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
Maybe that's the beauty of it, nobody suspects an innocent excelsior.
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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
But meanwhile it has 4 impulse engines and enough firepower to be a reasonable match for the Defiant (well, at least the Lakota had).
But I mentioned in the original thread that it is much like the Keldon class. Both are overpowered versions of more common ships, and neither the Keldon Class nor the Excelsior II are seen in the Dominion War, but only in special (undercover) missions. See what I mean?
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
One could also say that when these ships are seen, they are hanging around major fleet bases instead of venturing into deep space (the eventual attack on the Founder homeworld notwithstanding). Perhaps all the additions drastically shorten the operational range of the vessels by increasing the total mass, so that in the end, the ships are only good for defensive missions near starbases?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
"(...) Who knows what they've done with the warp drive!"
- O'Brien, about the Lakota.
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Why use a Lakota type ship? Why not a more modern ship like the Defiant or maybe even the Prometheus. Perhap for Section 31, those ships might have a cloaking device and even subspace weapons.
------------------ It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by Trip Tucker (Member # 297) on :
The Prometheus would be THE perfect Section 31 ship. Give it one of those illegal "phasing" cloaking devices to allow it to pass through solid stuff and it would be the ultimate espionage ship. I don't know about those subspace weapons though. Those are as illegal as the cloaking device but they're a little TOO dangerous to be used on a practical basis.
------------------ "Impossible is a word humans use far too often." -Seven of Nine
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Kinda makes you wonder, would all 3 sections have a cloak?
------------------ "Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed." -Preed, Titan A.E.
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Hmmm, that's a good one. I would put'em in all three. Maybe stick to normal cloak, just to be sure.
Even with normal ships they can bend the rules. Romulan cloaking device anyone? Or do you prefer a couple of tricobold torpedo's?
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
I'd go for the lovely metaphasic shielding along with ablative armor on the side.
Well, the Excelsior refits could just be hanging around near Thollian Space just in case it collapses. Oh, by the way, I was wondering where is the shuttlebay onboard the Excelsior refit ships? I looked at the cutaway from the TNG Movie Sketch book and saw that it was where the impulse engines were!!! ------------------ The world is not enough, but it is such a perfect place to start my love And if you're strong enough, together we can take the world apart my love
[This message has been edited by Michael_T (edited July 12, 2000).]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That's a mistake. The shuttlebay is on the back end, just like in any other Excelsior.
------------------ "I'm sick of you little girl and boy groups: all you do is annoy me, so I have been sent here to destroy you..." -Eminem, "The Real Slim Shady"
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Actually, it may not be a mistake. Those could be two additional shuttlebays. The impulse engines were moved to the side (those big bulges on the saucer)
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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The Ent-B refit ships were built as a counter measure for the then-new fire-while-cloaked Klingon BoPs. Until the new sensor technologies where small enough to put in a regular sized Excelsior, or the Klingons gave up their fire-while-cloaked experiments. The Lakota refit style ships where possibly built by the same specs, but with other sensors.
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Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
Prakesh: Please give a source for that theory.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Unless I'm mistaken, it's from the JD Chronolgy. I remember reading that theory also, but forget exactly where.
------------------ "Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed." -Preed, Titan A.E.
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Fact is, they were just finished refitting the Lakota just before it was send out to intercept the Defiant.
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
No mention of it in v12 of Dixon's chronology. And Dixon is unlikely to have invented such an explanation, so any reference to it in the chronology would also tell us where it came from. Diixon's chronology claims that the E-B hull additions were re-inforcements because the Excelsior was class was getting damaged in battle. This seems to have come from Jackill's Volume 3.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
So when Starfleet found new, stronger material they went back to the original design. Also newer impulse engines were used in the later batches of standard Excelsiors...
Hmmm... That sounds plausable, but still doesn't explain the Lakota...
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
The Enterprise-B was a stronger design than the Excelsior prior to the stronger material refit. So if you use the stronger materials on a stronger ship it would make naturally stronger than the 24th century Excelsior. Then the Lakota had weapons and shields upgrade to make it withstand a Defiant in battle.
------------------ It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
What Prakesh posted seems like a modification of the theory at the Daystrom Institute Tech. Lib. http://members.tripod.com/~adeadend/index2.htm However, that theory only applies to the Ent-B stytle refit and its labelled as pure speculation on the site anyways. There's also no connection between the Ent-B refit and the Lakota style refit on the site as well.
BTW: If you're doing espionage for Starfleet, why even bother picking a Starfleet vessel? Why not a vastly upgraded commercial freighter, or even a Klingon or Romulan ship that comes with a cloak anyways? ------------------ No I'm Spartacus!
[This message has been edited by Mucus (edited July 13, 2000).]
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Becuase a freighter would require too mcuh work to kake it into the perfect Section 31 ship. Starfleet ships already muc of what Section 31 requires, weapons, shields, long range tranporters, and high warp capability.
------------------ It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Actually, my write-up for the Excelsior refit in UP3 was this:
Enterprise-B design was meant as a more "normal" Excelsior then the transwarp testbed. They featured a lot more room for systems the testbed couldn't carry. But after design flaws, and after the transwarp experiment failed, it was found that the original design could perform the job much more efficently. As for the Lakota, that was a small run of ships based off the Enterprise-B design, but used as an "exploratory cruiser" version of the Excelsior. Better sensor suite, more scientific rooms inside the ship, etc.
------------------ "The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
[This message has been edited by The359 (edited July 13, 2000).]
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
Sounds nice. One of my UP3 things is the Yeager. Yeah, try to explain the scaled-up Maquis (why Maquis, my God!) components...
My opinion: for undercover missions, take Defiants and Intrepids. Small, fast, and they can kick some serious asses. But mainly: FAST! The Prommie might do it too.
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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Why would an intelligence gathering/covert ops agency need its own ships anyway?
------------------ "Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed." -Preed, Titan A.E.
Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
There a government orginization in the US called the NRO. National Reconissiance (sp?) Origanization. They had their own U-2 spyplanes back in the day. I think Air Force pilots flew them, but they had NRO painted on the tail. I'd say it would keep more people out of the loop and help limit the number of possible leaks.
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
How was the Bellerophon classified in "Inter Arma..."?
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
The Bellerophon was "official" classed as a starfleet vessel since section 31 would not be much of a secret if they were "official". I wonder if the tal shiar knows about section 31?
------------------ "We set sail on this new sea because their is new knowledge to be gained and new rights to be won" John F Kennedy
at least the tal shiar will know now! Since Sloan was "exposed" to neral and rest of the senate, section31 can not be much more than a secret! I wonder if section31 is really that confidential. Maybe the admirals of starfleet have them as a task force?If you look at startrek history nearly 25% of all admirals have been acting somewhat strange.(example: Adm. Preston, Dougherty, Cartwright, Leyton...) But i think it would be cool if the ref-excelsior class is a secret agency ship!
------------------ This is how i prefer the borg... in pieces!!! -- Janeway in Dark Frontier
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Source? My own lil' brains and the Chronology (The Okuda, that is). I just saw the story about the BoP and the Ent-B launch in the same decade. I remember reading this theory somewhere else, could have been Daystrom.
All FuckU-FuckMe users can control whom they connect to on an individual basis. There's no need to go to a public reflector. "
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[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited July 14, 2000).]
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
It was. He said that the Enterprise-B type was phased out after it was so successful that the ship was withdrew from service. The E-B type then seeing ono use for it was down graded to original specs of theExcelsior type. (Actually I made the last part up)
------------------ It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
