That's five different designs, not counting the Battlecruiser's possible status as two different-sized ships. I am quite positive there is no Battleship variant.
------------------
"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 13, 2000).]
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
There are only 3 different shapes of ships:
1: The Bug.
2: The main battle ship.
3: The big one seen in 'Valiant' and later in 'What You Leave Behind'. Scaling is almost identical in both episodes (And yes, I know that this doesn't match with the "twice the size of the Galaxy Class", but did you see the surpriced faces when they saw the ship in 'Valiant' for the first time?).
The confussion is that there were 3 different models used for the main battle ship.
In chron. order:
1: CGI #1, seen from 'In Purgatory's Shadow' until 'Call to Arms'. This is also known as the V-ship type.
2: Physical model, seen in various stock footage scenes docked at DS9. Also used in 'Call to Arms'.
3: CGI #2. Introduced in 'Sacrifice of Angels'. Wings matched the physical model, where the nacelles are more in line with the massive middle torpedo launcher (or whatever it is). Wings are curved a little, while the model has straigth wings.
In 'Call to Arms' both the first CGI and the physical model are used.
------------------
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Another thing...we've never seen the battlecruisers fire energy-weapons (phased polaron-beams?), have we? Just their version of quantum torp's.
------------------
Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
I believe you're right, Nimrod. Conversely, the Jemmy Bugs never fired torpedoes - only beams.
------------------
"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
The Bugs fired 'bolts' at the Odessey. A main battle ship fired at least 2 beams at the Defiant when it left DS9 with the Bird of Prey in 'Call to Arms'. The beams both came from the top side at about the same location as torpedo launcher.
------------------
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Possibly the Federation now has shields that can withstand most of the danage done by poloron weapons. So the battlecruiser has to fire torpedoes instead becuase their once great weapon is now nothing more than your average weapon. The attack ships use this alot becuase their small size would indicate that they would either have a small torpedo complement or don't have one at all.
------------------
It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
*just had the contents of this post removed by a crash*
The V-ship, battlecruiser and "battlebattlecruiser" are, as far as the scripts are concerned, all the same ship. But their design and scale differences suggest they can't be brushed aside like the multitudinous Nebula variations, and are indeed seperate ships. The V-ship is not likely to be longer than 400m, and the "battlebattlecruiser" (sole appearance: SofA) is not likely to be shorter than 800m, with the standard battlecruiser fitting somewhere in the middle (barring the one appearance in SofA when it was shorter than the Galors). BTW, both the standard and the "battlebattlecruiser" appear in SofA. The "battlebattlecruiser" is the different ship the Defiant flies over at the end.
BTW, there's a CGI for all three ships (and the Valiant superbattleship, too), plus a physical model of the standard battlecruiser.
------------------
"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 15, 2000).]
Posted by Nemesis (Member # 255) on :
Are these Jem'Hadar battlecruiser versions really supposed to be different designs? Maybe this was just a fault in the cgi-department or their schematics were not very accurate. I like to think that these ships were supposed to be different configurations, like the miranda-class. Maybe one version was built for speed, one for extra firepower and so on...
------------------
This is how i prefer the borg... in pieces!!! -- Janeway in Dark Frontier
http://www.seventhworld.de.vu
[This message has been edited by Nemesis (edited July 15, 2000).]
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
Okay:
Real world: 3 different models (Bug, main ship, Valiant type), of which the main ship has 3 different models, two CGI and one physical. These 3 models are indeed somewhat different, mostly in the curving of the wings and the pink and purple lights.
Star Trek: I think it's similar to the Klingon Bird of Prey.
I also like to think that that 'thing' on the bottom center of the main ship is modular.
------------------
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."
- Buffy
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
So, if Starfleet could have a fleet well above the tens of thousands? I still support the idea that Starfleet might have a fleet about 10,000 ships spread all over their territory. Only reason why we haven't seen that many ships becuase it would take months to reach the battlefield from the other side of Federation territory.
30,000 ships? If Starfleet could build that many ships, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, and the Cardassions would be the intertgalactic INSECTS. But that would politically incorrect for that day and age.
Weyoun did say that the Dominion would need a large fleet to invade the Federation all the way to Earth.
------------------
It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Why did it post it here? I was on the Starfleet size topic not this? Could someone swtich this please?
------------------
It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Erm... No, I don't think there's a "post move" function. Just copy-and-paste it into a reply in the other thread.
------------------
"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Altair: It's more than just twinkly lights. The V-ship is quite distinctive. The wings are obviously the biggest point of difference (they're longer, and swept downwards and quite far forwards), but the central hull of the ship also has numerous difference, including a much (proportionally) larger dividing ridge in the middle and bigger top-mounted pods.
It's also clearly only two-to-three times the length of the Bug based on the Nebula scene, and not in the 600+ ize range.
Apparently the V-ship served as a draft for the finalized battlecruiser, and wasn't an error or anything. The final version is more detailed, and has of course numerous differences. A CGI and physical model exist for this baby, the CGI most likely used in every battle sequence from CtA onwards and the model used in the shots where it was up close and docked or something. (IIRC, the model is shown in the background of a picture in ST:The Magazine or something) I think Stipes said it was 792m, but the DS9TM's figure of 640m seems a bit more in keeping with the VFX. It has one dubious booboo in SofA in which it appears shorter than a Galor. Perhaps the VFX guys were using the V-ship size erroneously?
The third variant appears only once, at the end of SofA. It's the last ship in the Dominion lines, and blows up as the Defiant passes over it. Although seen only briefly, its also quite different. Hang on, a pic first (not great, but the best I could find):
The top nacellish pods are extended way out away from the central hull on Starfleetish pylons, the wings are again different (backswept?--I have to check again) and the bow is proportionally longer and again with a more pronounced dividing ridge. It's also big. At least 750m, possibly up to kilometer long, based on the questionable Defiant length. I'd imagine this is also CGI, but allow me to advance few theories here. One is that the model shown in the aforementioned photograph (which I have yet to see, so bear with me) is actually of this ship, and it was built specifically so we could have an impressive explosion in the last shot (a la a new model for the Valiant.) The other is that this is the source of Stipes' 792m figure, regardless of whether its physical or CGI. As for why this ship was built? Unknown. It could have been another draft floated around at the time of Purgatory's Shadow, it could have been a new design that never got seen again due to Norway-ish CGI problems. All I know is that it's not a standard battlecruiser and can't be passed off as one.
------------------
"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Oooh.. just found this.... man, that thing has a fat engine.
Bigger Image, a few frames before the other
I might add that it's quite clear in this picture that there is some sort of "keel" structure under the main hull on this ship. Another difference.
------------------
"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 15, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 15, 2000).]
(Edit - fixed link)
[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited July 15, 2000).]