This is topic Starship classification in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Gg on :
 
What are the official classification for these class ships, thank you:

Galaxy-class (Large) Exploration Cruiser ?
Nebula-class Exploration Cruiser ?
Sovereign-class (Large) Exploration Cruiser II ?
Intrepid-class (Small) Exploration Cruiser ?
Nova-class Research Cruiser ?



 

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
 
Oh dear, you'll regret this.

Galaxy class Explorer.
and according to the DS9 TM Nebula class Explorer.

Sovereign, nothing official, probably Explorer or Heavy Cruiser (what on earth is a Cruiser II?)

Intrepid according to Rick Sternbach is Explorer (the lightest class of verssels so designated) though some pre-publicity seems to have originated the widespread Scout designation.

Nova class was mentioned in dialogue I think. Some sort of Deep Space Surveyor or something like that.

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-->Identity Crisis<--


 

Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
 
Oh no, yet another classification discussion!!!! :-(

Well, OK, Nova was a 'research vessel', if I remember the dialogue from "Equinox" correctly. Something of a follow-up to the Oberth class, I like to think.

The SciPubTech cutaway poster from the Sovereign class designated it as a 'Type-2 Explorer'. Not entirely canon, but better than nothing. However I like the Sovereign as a 'Heavy Cruiser' more.


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[This message has been edited by Alpha Centauri (edited July 19, 2000).]
 

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
Well, if you want "official" as in on-screen, then the New Orleans is a frigate and Wambundu is a light cruiser. And isn't it generally accepted that the Constitution is a heavy cruiser?

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"I just want to set the record straight: I thought the officer was a prostitute"- Homer Simpson
 

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Let's see if I can remember this from the last time I asked on RAST while building & classing Breadalbane..from largest to smallest:

LINE VESSELS
Explorer
Heavy Cruiser
Medium Cruiser
Light Cruiser
Frigate
Escort
Destroyer
Scout

SUPPORT VESSELS
Cargo Carrier (Freighter/Supply Ship)
Transport
Tanker
Surveyor (Science/Research Vessel)
Tug
Runabout

Fighters are considered craft. I miss anything here?

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
I like to split the classifications into tow groups, the official and the unofficial. The official is what the ship odes during the peacetime to make the ship keeps it's worth. The unofficial term is what the ship actually is during a war.

Galaxy class, Official: Explorer, Unofficial: Battlecruiser

Nebula class, Official: Explorer, Unofficial: Heavy Cruiser

Intrepid class, Official: Light Explorer, Unofficial: Long-range Scout

Nova class, Official: Science Vessel, Unofficial: Light Scout

Sovereign class, Offficial: Enhanced Deterence Explorer, Unofficial: Battleship

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
I have a similar classification for the major ships in Starfleet also, well my Star Trek Club at least does.

Galaxy Class: Explorer in peacetime, Battlecruiser in wartime

Sovereign Class: Explorer in peacetime, Battlecruiser in wartime

Ambassador Class: Explorer in peacetime, Heavy Cruiser in wartime

Excelsior Class: Explorer in peacetime, Cruiser in wartime

Nebula Class: Explorer in peacetime, Cruiser in wartime

New Orleans Class: Scout in peacetime, Frigate in wartime

Defiant Class: Escort in peacetime, Battleship in wartime

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And if you're strong enough, together we can take the world apart my love
 

Posted by Trip Tucker (Member # 297) on :
 
The dialogue about the Equinox tells us that the Nova-class is a short-term planetary surveyor.

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"Impossible is a word humans use far too often."
-Seven of Nine



 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
You're all very lucky I'm in New York right now. In any case, the peacetime/wartime thing is the best solution, IMO.

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"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by Gg on :
 
to identity crisis i typed cruiser II because I beleive that the Sovereign-class is the predocessor to the Galaxy-class. That's why, thank you for those who responded.
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
 
...sucessor...
hmmm, doesn't having the Defiant a battleship and the Sovereign a battlecruiser, give you just the slightest double-take?

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annoyed with their German rocket scientists. � Outpost
 

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Methinks it should be the other way around, no?

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"Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed."
-Preed, Titan A.E.


 

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
To quote frank:
quote:

*screams*


I won't repeat what I've said before. But in short, the "wartime/peacetime" classification system advanced by Frank and a few others is completely unneccessary and, IMHO, crap.


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"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com


[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 19, 2000).]
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I concur.

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by Cammodude on :
 
I have one question. How did the Defiant class get a PEACETIME classification? The ship was built for war. No more, no less. As for the wartime classification, the Defiant class is an escort, not a battleship.

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"If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!"
--Aurther
The Journeyman Project 3

 

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Hey don't shoot at me, it's not my classification system... it's my Star Trek Club's. It all came about because members kept on arguing about how to classify the ships. So that split personality system came about after a year of meetings from my club's Federation Council.

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The world is not enough, but it is such a perfect place to start my love
And if you're strong enough, together we can take the world apart my love
 

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
*yawns*

I wonder if no one ever gets tired about this discussion.

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Ex Astris Scientia
 

Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
 
"i typed cruiser II because I beleive that the Sovereign-class is the predocessor to the Galaxy-class. "

The Sovereign entered service after the Galaxy so it can't possibly be a predecessor. Nor is it a successor, the two ships appear to be very different in nature. They're merely different designs in use by Starfleet at the same time. The Galaxy class has not yet been made obsolete, so there's no need for a successor deisgn.

And the idea that a successor would be an Explorer II is nonsense. Starfleet has been around for over 200 years, how many 'generations' of, say, cruisers has she got through in that time? Six maybe? So are current cruisers classified as Cruisers VI?

A newer class may be given a designation such as Advanced Cruiser until it's been produced to enough nukbers to largely replace the older cruisers at which point the Advanced would be dropped. But that's mere speculation.

And, yeah, the peacetime/wartime thing is crap.

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-->Identity Crisis<--


 

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Has there ever in Trek history been an actual contradiction in the official and semi-official designation of some starship? What I mean is, has any ship ever been called "cruiser" in dialogue and "explorer" in an Okuda or Sternbach text, or "scout" in one episode and "surveyor" in another?

While there are oddities, like a tiny Constellation and a huge Ambassador both being explicitly called "cruisers" in episodes, there don't seem to be actual contradictions. Thus, I see little need for multiple parallel designation systems. If we can get a single designation system, even a crooked one with frigates larger than cruisers and with tiny and gigantic explorers, I think it will still be inherently superior to multiple parallel systems (even if those systems are well thought out like Frank's).

The only contradictions I can think of at the moment would be the Enterprise-nil being both "heavy cruiser" (computer screens) and "battlecruiser" "(Klingon dialogue) in ST3, and the Grissom being interpretable as "scout class" but Oberths being called "science" and "supply" vessels in TNG. But those aren't very severe problems - Klingons can have a differing opinion, and the Grissom thing is vague.

Timo Saloniemi
 

Posted by Cammodude on :
 
I didn't mean to shoot at you Michael_T. Sorry about that. It's just that classification discussons slowly make me go INSANE. :-)

Isn't the Venture class starship from Star Trek: Insurrection considered a scout? (Venture is a highly conjunctural name for the scout ship from ST:I)

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"If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!"
--Aurther
The Journeyman Project 3


[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 20, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 20, 2000).]
 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
Rehash....lol

If you just beamed down to a planet and the locals were interest in what type of ship you drove I don't think you would call it a scout. Oh yeah she's ah...ah an explorer.... ah yeah.

I believe all ships that can travel substantial distances without refueling or resupply are cruisers, and word cruiser doesn't lends itself to a military designation in this case. They may be formitable fighting vessel in their own right but that is hardly all they are or ever will be. Frigate , scouts an escorts I think are suppose to be purely military type vessels with little or limited practical peace time use. I honestly think if you were going into battle you would probably want more frigates ,escorts ,and scouts than cruisers.

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[This message has been edited by bear (edited July 20, 2000).]
 

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
I would likme to know why the peace time, wartime classification is crap? Why would you send a battlecruiser for treaties? If reclassify it as a non-military term which Starfleet is then it would contradict Starfleet's ideals. On the otherhand the Klingons are warriors so give a damn about what their ships are called and how powerful they are during peactime when it concerns their allies.

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
In summary, the general opinion on why "peacetime/wartime" is crap is because the wartime designations are neither...


I'm sick of this thread, too.
If Frank was here, I'd be really sick of this thread.

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"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com

[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited July 21, 2000).]
 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
Tom's right...I appologize for encouraging what could degrade into I am right you are wrong situation that is obviously a complete waste of time for all parties involved.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
*screams a whole lot*

The peacetime/wartime differentiation is necessary because what a ship does when looking at a planet is very different from what it does in battle. I would hope people could understand it. It's like classifying an orange as being a fruit and being round. Nobody is going to say that all fruits are round or anything.

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
In Navy terms they don't call a air craft carrier just a ship. The call it a aircraft carrier becuase it is neccessary not becuase we like to. If we call it ship then the fleets would consist of:

3 ships
13 ships
34 more ships
2,000 fighters
4,000 more fighters
100,000 troops on 100 ships

Now tell me how confusing that is?

On screen evidence of the peacetime/wartime classfication is in The Searth Part1.

"Officially it is a escort, unofficially it a warship."
This was Sisko when referring to the Defiant. Now are we going to call that ship too in stead of it's real classficiation?

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
*tries to resist the urge to fire back, setting this off again*

*can't*

I won't even bother arguing w/Frank on this topic, since we've all come to identify arguing with him about this (and the Defiant's length, too) is about as useful as trying to tell Omega that guns are bad and that the Earth is populated with life that arose billions of years ago.

Instead, I'll direct my comments to the other poor souls who may yet be saved, unlike Mr. Gerratana here. [Shades of Milton's Paradise Lost, anyone?]

..."unofficially" is the keyword, everybody. That literally means that Starfleet doesn't have an official classification called "warship". (I'd go so far as to say Frank would agree with me here). To go further, I have to point out that in that scene from The Search, you will note that Sisko places special emphasis on the fact that Starfleet is squeemish about having "warships." That line plays, or at least IMHO, as "Starfleet has tried to slot this ship into a category that it hardly qualifies to be in, so just between us, let's think of it as a warship."

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"Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa."
-Gene Ray, http://www.timecube.com



 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Well, Starfleet still needs to function in battle. I'm not terribly interested in what its PR department calls its ships.

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
But that's what we're discussing: what they call the ships. During a battle, ships may be functioning as battleships, destroyers, etc., but SF doesn't call them that, instead of "explorer", "scout", or whatever they are.

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Well, that's the thing...I'm only interested in what the ships are functioning as.

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Well, okay. If you want to say a ship is acting like a battlecruiser, or some such, feel free to. But don't claim that Starfleet would actually give it any such official designation within the confines of wartime, because all evidence suggests otherwise.

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Despite all the ships called frigates and cruisers?

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
I find that it easier to indentify ships with the correct classficiations. Starfleet might call their batttlecruisers and battleships cruisers or whatever. It is a different classification scheme than what we call our ships in the Navy. Denying the fact is dones't exist is saying that the sun does not exist. We as humans designate things to make it easier to identify.

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Frank: Those ships were called that during peacetime. Those are their designations. Their only ones.

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
Even though they're naval combat designations, and describe nothing about a ship's peacetime function?

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
How many navies do you know of on Earth now who call their ships something different during peacetime?

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
None, because modern naval ships are built mostly for battle.

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Frank's Home Page
"Frank is absolutely right." - Laz Rojas
 

Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
Also I can't think of a Navy in the world that uses their ships to explore.

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 

Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
 
I am not getting sucked into this...(shakes his head)

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Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
 
Unbelievable! How many starship-classification discussions were there in the entire history of Flare? It's amazing how long these threads become everytime!

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Advertisement in the United Federation NewsPADD, SD 53675:

"Now for sale at your local dealer: Antares class vessels, as good as new! They can shapeshift! Everybody in the galaxy has one! Now for only $800!"


 

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Everything around here has been explored already. Back in the fifteenth, sixteenth, seventeenth centuries, do you think they changed the designation of an explorer's ship if a war started?

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"I just measured him. He's about 21"."
-Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
 

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
[yawn]
I'm taking a nap, now, wake me when you guys are done.

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if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.


 

Posted by colin (Member # 217) on :
 
The US Navy has ships that are used for exploration.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
 
For battle-scouting, maybe...

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[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited July 24, 2000).]
 

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Actually, that isn't true, Frank. Historically, navies have often been handed missions of a purely exploratory nature. Charles Darwin was aboard the HMS Beagle, after all, not the SS Beagle. I'd say it's partially because we've explored most of the ocean that we lock our modern navy into a combat role. And even today, a great deal of oceanographic research is conducted by naval vessels, both as a spinoff from military applications (mapping the ocean floor to provide for better submarine navigation) and as the result of specific scientific investigations.

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"If Picard was set loose on a Monopoly board, he'd try and establish peaceable diplomatic relations with Marvin Gardens and give St. James Place wide berth so that its culture could develop without interference."
--
L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
 
Then those ships would be the equivilant of a Oberth or a Nova depending on it you think the Nova is a replacement for the Oberth.

Yes there are ships out there that monitor and map the ocean but is there any ships out there that actually map new continents or countries that was never explored before?

During our time there is no need for that as it all has been done. Starfleet in the 24th century has stilll the entire Milky Way Galaxy to explore and even more with the Universe. However I support that every ship might have their own official classifiction to make a fleet balanced. It is also human nature to categorize things and give them names and such. That's why there is hundreds of different cats in the world that differ only in color or shape of the nose or something.

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It is better to walk the path of the devil than to be in the path of the devil. Though it still might not be the right path.

 



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