This is in response to an email I sent to Okuda concerning the engineering hull of Ed Miarecki's Buran model. I won't use Mike's exact words, but I will give the gist of it.
It appears that the Buran's saucer was made from the Enterprise-D saucer from the ERTL "3-in-1" kit. The engineering hull was made from the same Enterprise model, the main difference being that the hull is on the same plane as the middle waistband of the saucer in a kind of "meshing" between the two hulls. There is a model on Markus Nee's website with a similar construction.
The Galaxy nacelle that was attached to the submarine tower was the upper one. Either Okuda or Sternbach made this modification. The lower nacelle was either there in the original configuration, or it was moved there later. Okuda was kinda vague about this.
Mike's photo of the model has become misplaced, but hopefully he will find it soon. Anyway, this is a much better description than what we had previously. Thanks Mike!
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Superb! This seems to virtually ensure our ID of the ship from the BoBW screencaps, plus the ship probably is a beauty despite Okuda's earlier belittling comments.
Just one thing: did Okuda's reply imply that the engines were from the small E-D kit, too, or were they perhaps from the 1/1400 scale model? The nacelles on the BoBW ship seem very long, perhaps even longer than the 1/1400 nacelle would look on a 1/2700 hull.
Also, if the secondary hull is centered on the saucer, then this is the third Miarecki ship to lack a traditional navigational deflector (in addition to Cheyenne and Springfield). Counting in Jein's Freedom and George's Excelsior study models, it begins to look as if deflector dishes aren't all that important to starships after all. We're close to the point where the majority of canonical Starfleet ships lack the dish...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Yes, it should be 1/2500 saucer and engineering plus 1/1400 nacelles. Let's see (hopefully) what actually scale Miarecki intended the ship to be.
As for the deflector, I recently figured that the field for deflecting small particles could be created by a distributed system (the deflector grid?), while the focussed beam for larger objects might be generated by a small "cannon" or a conventional tractor beam emitter. Something like that is on the underside of the Constellation.
------------------ "Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities." Ex Astris Scientia
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
So, whas this Challenger model actually seen on screen in BoBW?
------------------ MS Windows Error 014: Unexplained error - Please tell us how this happened --- Prakesh's Star Trek Site
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
It's probably the ship directly below the Enterprise-D in this picture. At least the vessel seems to match no other known photographic, study or kitbash model we'd have heard of. And it's a pretty good match of the descriptions of the Challenger class.
Timo Saloniemi
[This message has been edited by Timo (edited July 21, 2000).]
Posted by Cammodude on :
As for the lack of a deflector dish, I agree that a deflector grid is probably what the ships lacking a dish are equiped with. Either that, or they DO have a dish that's just imbedded in null hull space.
------------------ "If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!" --Aurther The Journeyman Project 3
[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 21, 2000).]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That ship in the Wolf359 screencap does have an awfully circular saucer. Even if it were tilted at an angle, I would expect a little more elipticality (is that a word?)...
------------------ "I just measured him. He's about 21"." -Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
If you turn an elipse just right on it's side you'll get a circle. And if that is the Challenger then the section sticking out would be a nacelle. Either the top or bottom depending on how big that conning tower was.
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
All Okuda said was that the saucer came from the 3-in-1 Enterprise kit, and the nacelles from the "large ERTL" Enterprise kit. I don't know what the scale was for the 3-in-1 kit. Anyone?
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
So basically, we're looking at something that pretty much looks like this.
It'll cost you $US 85 for me to build that...
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
Okay, what about the saucer deflector? Couldn't that be present on the model?
------------------ The world is not enough, but it is such a perfect place to start my love And if you're strong enough, together we can take the world apart my love
Posted by Grapeape on :
Okay, here's my take on the Challenger class. First off,the secondary hull IS definately on the same plane as the primary hull, and the model IS tilted, because both the top and bottom nacelles are visible, and the secondary hull is almost invisible, sandwiched between them. The nacelles are definately the huge 1/1400 scale ones, not lengthened or shortened in any way - to test their size, I pulled out my unbuilt model kits (the exact same AMT ones used by the kitbashers) and held a 1/1400 scale engine over a 1/2500 saucer, and it matches the photo perfectly. The top engine seems to have some kind of custom details though, because there are bumps of some sort visible right on the top surface (unless it's debris or damage of some kind). And as for the nav deflector, it HAS to have one. My reasoning for this is that every TNG (and later ST9/DS9 era) ship has some kind of nav deflector. The only ship we've seen the bottom of from Wolf 359 (the New Orleans class) has one, and given the secondary hull configuration of the Niagara class, it obviously has one also. As for the Cheyenne, Springfield, Freedom, and Challenger classes, where there are no traditional secondary hulls, perhaps they have saucer-mounted nav deflectors in a "cutout" on the underside of some kind? It seems a logical location, especially since the Galaxy-class is supposed to have an auxillary deflector in this location. Just my 6 1/3 cents Posted by Grapeape on :
Also, does anyone have a theory where the hangar bay would be? The only idea I have is maybe at the rear of the secondary hull, between the nacelles...
Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
Ugh, I don't think I'm going to build this one. Maybe if I change out the 1/1400 engines for some lenghtened 1/2500 ones. We'll see. And yeah, it'll cost to build it. I have some more ideas on how to build it less expensively if you e-mail me Shik.
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
That IS less expensively. That's to compensate me for mucho labor, paint, & existing parts. If I had t'go track down parts, it'd be about $US 80-120 more.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
Well, I know where to get the three piece set for about $15 and the Ent-d for about $25. I guess paint and all, but I don't count that in my model costs because the paint usually lasts longer than one model. And I have a ton of tools and stuff. But yeah, I guess I can see how it may cost that much total.
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I believe Shik is saying that, if someone wanted him to build it for them, he would charge that much, because it would include parts and labor.
------------------ "I just measured him. He's about 21"." -Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Right you are, Inspector. Believe it or not, I actually do get requests to build things for people a lot. Unfortunately, they rarely come to fruition because:
A) I quote them a price & they think it's too high, not realizing that I'm SIGNIFICANTLY downsizing actual price to MAKE it affordable (a 1/1400 Galaxy should by all rights cost $300 due to sheer labor alone);
B) I quote them a price & they evaporate;
C) They ask for things that aren't possible. Someone once asked for an Enterprise-D in the same scale as the ERTL Enterprise-A kit--1/537. OUCH.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
------------------ "Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos
Posted by Cammodude on :
I've seen some other picturs of the "Challanger" class. I can provide a link to them if you like.
------------------ "If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!" --Aurther The Journeyman Project 3
[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 22, 2000).]
Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :
You mean these?
------------------ "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'." - Buffy
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well... We know the old Freedom design was pretty much right. The old Rigel design seems to have actually been the Niagara. So, what in the world was this one a corruption of?
------------------ "I just measured him. He's about 21"." -Chris Martin, 14-Jul-2000
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Perhaps someone tried to come up with a design to use the Consititution II stardrive and saucer?
------------------ "Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed." -Preed, Titan A.E.
Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :
Shik, I hear you about building models for other people. I've only done it once or twice and I'll never do it again. But I think that design came from a comic book that had the USS Challenger in it. It was like that, but was more like a Constelleation with the bottom nacelles removed and the Constitution secondary hull put there.
------------------ It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.
Posted by Cammodude on :
Altair, those pictures look pretty good, but those arn't the ones I was refering to. I was talking about some pictures of a TNG style Challenger.
------------------ "If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!" --Aurther The Journeyman Project 3
[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 22, 2000).]
Keep in mind that the pics are just possible designs based on the reckage seen in BoBw.
------------------ "If I knew you were coming I would have baked a cake...learned to sing....stop me Gage!" --Aurther The Journeyman Project 3
[This message has been edited by Cammodude (edited July 22, 2000).]
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Yeah, I had the images Bernd has in mind when I did mine. Only differences are that I made the secondary hull "inline" & accounted for the actual nacelle-to-hull sizing ratio. Make the upper pylon look like the sail of a Typhoon-class SovSBN (which I've yet to figure how to arrange) & you're all set.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Yeah, they're from Bernd's site. Quite a few of us already know about them as the Wolf 359 ships discussion has been going on for quite a while on another thread.
------------------ Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Yosemite Sam: "Well, I speak loudly and I carry a bigger stick...and I use it too!"
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
That ship up there looks soooooooo FASA...
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I just got confirmation from Okuda that the model did indeed use the 1/1400 nacelles with the 1/2500 saucer/engineering hull. He stated that he and Rick Sternbach wanted a fast looking ship, but that when they saw the actual finished model, it wasn't quite the way they invisioned it would be.
------------------ Captain Tenille: "Oh, Simpson, you're like the son I never had." Homer: "And you're like the father I never visit."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
$80 for a completely built model! WOW! The price for the kits ALONE over here in Australia cost $80.00!
Andrew
------------------ "Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Not including shipping. I can't charge TRUE worth because no one's paying $400 for my shit-ass work.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
