I already have a MSD based on the more accurate FF diagram, and have the basic outlines of all 28 decks. But I'd hate to start and find out there are only 15 decks (like some websites have estimated). Any thoughts?
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
EDIT: I turned this into a link, since the image is obviously too big for one page. Sorry for the inconvenience.
http://www.st-minutiae.com/graphics/c_constellation_5.jpg
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You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae
[This message has been edited by MinutiaeMan (edited March 05, 2001).]
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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
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"This is such an amazingly minor complaint. Does anyone actually watch episodes anymore, or is it just a notebook + pause button exercise these days?"
-Sol System on what constitutes modern day Star Trek watching, 02-22-01
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You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Constellation_msd2.gif
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
I'd also conclude that the pylons transport torpedoes to the launchers.
I had a dream before, a short 3d-movie showing the constellation firing from all four launchers, in the same speed as scott's salvo in ST:III. It would make for, like, 8 torpedoes per second. In other words, a damn gunship!! And with the updated photon-torp's of 2376, it'd be nifty, even though the hull probably is wafer-thin compared to, say, a Defiant.
But since the constellation was a science-vessel the launchers were probably configured to eject probes and stuff... The crazed Jean-Luc never fired torpedoes in "The Ship", did he? Hmph!
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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
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"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
------------------
"You don't tug on Superman's cape.
You don't spit into the wind.
You don't pull the mask off the ole' Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim."
Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
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"Gee, the public whipping didn't quite convey their fascist culture, I need something more straightforward. Ah, leather hats!" --Nimrod, on National Socialism fashion design.
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You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae
Mark
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"Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
As for torpedo capacity... There are quite a few structures that could serve as launchers, but none has ever been definitively identified.
--Jonah
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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
--Jonah
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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH
The Constellation class has two official hardpoints, with two barrels each, making for four launchers. If it could be modified in modern Trek it'd be a formidable gunship, firing eight torpedoes per second, machinegun-rate. the magazines would run short very fast at their current size, but if they really cared they could modify that too.
These pics help.
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/Valkyrie1.jpg
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/valkyrie2.jpg
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Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 05, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 05, 2001).]
As I understand it this is the official model of the USS Valkyrie, the wiring is going into her behind at that last pic.
You can also see the nice "Transformer"-like toys glued to the bottom of the saucer, one humanoid-looking and one "mech". I don't think they were added in the commercial models released to the public.
------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
------------------
You know, you really should keep a personal log. Why bore others needlessly?
The Gigantic Collection of Star Trek Minutiae
------------------
Here lies a toppled god,
His turnip not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
I've posted a couple of images to further explain myself. The first is:
http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/c-ccompar.jpg
This is a palimpset of the Constitution and Constellation in scale, coinciding with with the upper leading edge of the saucer section - therefore in sync. Notice that the upper constellation saucer is not identical with the constitution -hence the extra deck. Second, the Constellation hull is quite a bit thicker than the constitution. All in all, if we consider the decks the same, there are about 16-17 decks in the Constellation saucer section. BTW, isn't Jackill's work wonderfu?. I've done the same superposition with the excelsior, miranda, and oberth. Good stuff, but unfortunately not in similar to the Intrepid with it's huge deck heights. (has anyone compared the Intrepid's height and 15 decks with the Sovereigns height and 24+?)
The second image is: http://flareupload.hypermart.net/files/smalldecks.jpg
Here you can see my breakdown of each deck. These cutaways were developed from the FF schematics, the most accurate to date. You can see that the connecting dorsal, while not as large as the constitution, is still large enough to contain rooms as well as conduits. Technically speaking, the pylons are that last deck, the 'wings' leading to the nacelles.
Any thoughts, based on this? Remember, we still have to deal with the basic problem of the early deck heights versus the later (i.e.: constitution, excelsior vs. intrepid and defiant).
Ben
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Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept?
-A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
The bad thing about the Constellation design is that -once again- someone moved the window rows too close to each other. We have the same problem on the Oberth and the Excelsior too. It seems those artists don't like equal spacing because it looks too technical, so they take the freedom to tamper with it.
Anyway, given the corresponding parts of Constellation and Constitution, it would give us four decks in the saucer rim and 11 or 12 altogether, like in Dan's MSD.
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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia
Otherwise, the FF structure seems good to me, even though it's apparently not 100% accurate, either (the shapes of the Constitution-derived impulse decks are not exact, for example). Ben's internal layout makes sense, too.
One thing that might affect this is the official MSD of the Hathaway visible in "Peak Performance" (done in the "Enterprise-B" style, complete with sadly unreadable labels). I've got a fuzzy screencap of it, but my FTP connection is acting up so I can't reach it at the moment (my password has NOT expired, you stupid machine!).
The non-deck-aligned portholes on the saucer rim could be taken as an indication that a special compartment similar to the two-storey rec deck of the Constitutions encircles the whole primary hull. Given the multitude of shuttlebays and cargo bays on the rim, this wouldn't be all that impossible to believe.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
I think we need to evaluate something.
(1) if we agree that the constitution decks (per Jackill) are accurate;
(2) if we agree that the size comparison is accurate (per Jackil);
Then, there are 16 decks in the Constellation saucer (because the deck heights are identical between the two ships). Add to that the 'decks' in the connecting dorsal and ventral, that leaves 28 (12 more). Someone mentioned 15 decks or so in an earlier post. This jives with the evidence cited above. Sure those other decks are quite small, but they are still decks. And regarding windows, this hypothesis does have the added benefit of fitting the model windows perfectly.
Ben
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Ripley: When we throw the switches, how long before the ship blows?
Parker: Ten minutes.
Ripley: No bullshit?
Parker: If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
Alien (1979)
Ben
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Ripley: When we throw the switches, how long before the ship blows?
Parker: Ten minutes.
Ripley: No bullshit?
Parker: If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
Alien (1979)
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-dih1138
It's been told and retold numerous times in the recent past, but I can't find a single one of those references just now.Anyway, to get the Fact Files, you have to move across the Atlantic, since they are only to be found in Europe. Please take with you all the ST Magazines you can carry, since they appear to be superior publications to these Fact Files... And are in turn not available here.
Timo Saloniemi
Look in "Officer's Lounge" under "Upload...?"
It is fairly recent.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 07, 2001).]
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder what they do with the old LCARS after they're done with them. They may still be around somewhere. It's kinda hard to dress up an ol' constellation msd like they did the defiant bridge on voyager. Do you remember if the Hathaway had a top view like the Excelsior in STVI?
Ben
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Ripley: When we throw the switches, how long before the ship blows?
Parker: Ten minutes.
Ripley: No bullshit?
Parker: If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
Alien (1979)
I do hope a secret cache of old Okudagrams is one day found and printed in its entirety, so that Paramount can get lots and lots of cash from all the people who want a copy (you listening up there?).
Timo Saloniemi
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I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!