Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Enterprise: a Checklist

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Just to show what the Powers can fuck up when designing the 22nd century, here's a checklist:

(Based on fact that stories are set in the 2150's)

The (S.S.?) Enterprise
No phasers:
Worf said the 22nd didn't have phasers, and Pike used lasers. Will they actually dare to put kitschy phasers on a sci-fi ship in 2001?

No holodecks
This Emergence Plot Device used in the modern series, it will not be available in the 22nd century. (Although TAS did once feature a holodeck like room on the original Enterprise)

No replicators
Established in some TOS eps, TUC and "Flashback" (VOY)

No Starfleet logos
The ships not in the Starfleet!

No "USS" or "NCC"
It is either a "S.S." or a "U.E.N."
I hope they will actually use real regos, like Masao.

No "1701"
I DO NOT WANT TO SEE 1701 on that hull!

No Warp 7,8 or 9
Allegedly, Warp 4 is the limit. This will likely not prohibit the Enterprise from 'going boldy'.

No arrowhead-communicators
We need something even sillier than the flip-top communicators.

No LCARS
I completely trust Okuda's abilities to make the sets look very believabe 22nd century Trek.

No glowy things, except for the 'Buzzard' ramscoops.
No ship before (or during) TOS ever had glowy things, like the blue grid or a navdev. We need the old-fashioned Navigational Disc back!

No subspace communication!
Kirk said subspace com had not been invented hundered years before TOS (This makes me think the Vulcans were VERY reluctant to share tech with Earth). This will most likely be violated for drama's sake.

It would be at least interesting to see if (and how) they'll portray the Earth-Romulan War (2156-2161) or the signing of the Federation treaties (2161).

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"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones.
Fuck all those gun-toting
hip gangster wannabes."
-Tool, Ænima

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Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The Encyclopedia says the treaty ending the Terro-Romulan War was done by subspace radio. I believe it was established in "Balance of Terror".

What is this "blue grid" of which you speak?

And it's okay if we see the old Starfleet symbols. There's no reason to think the symbols were invented specifically by/for SF. They could have lifted the symbols off UESPA, or whoever was around then.

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Lister: "Drop dead, Rimmer."
Rimmer: "Already have done."
Lister: "Encore."
-Red Dwarf, "Kryten"

Posted by Tech Sergeant Chen (Member # 350) on :

Didn't the domes on the aft ends of 1701 glow dimly white? Or was I just imagining things?

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Never give up. Never surrender.

Posted by Zor Prime on :

Well, we CANNOT meet the Romulans in person. The Earth people can't I mean. In Balance of Terror, it was a huge plot point that Earth and the Romulans never saw each other, and that Spock looks like them when we do see them (gasp).
The writers better do their research.
I'm still pissed that the Voyager crew went down to Earth in the middle of the Eugenics Wars (circa 1996), and never mentioned them!
Oh well..

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Funny, I don't remember the Eugenics Wars.

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"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

Posted by TheF0rce (Member # 533) on :

oh it happened last week
you just missed it

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Eugenics War ... ?

You know, for all the bitchin' people do about Trek messing up its own continuity, I'm surprised people aren't mad that real life is messing up continuity ...

Now, re: Worf & the Phasers -- are you sure Worf was speaking of all phasers? Perhaps just hand-held phasers hadn't been created yet? A pre-phaser starship could be armed with plasma weapons or disruptors instead of lasers.

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Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
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***
Card-Carrying Member of the Flare APAO
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[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited May 14, 2001).]

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

quote:
What is this "blue grid" of which you speak?

The blue glowy stuff on the warp engines. Can't remember what they are called.

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"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones.
Fuck all those gun-toting
hip gangster wannabes."
-Tool, Ænima

---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

You mean the nacelle field grills? As in the thing that shattered on the nacelle when the Bozeman collided with the E-D?

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[Bart's looking for his dog.]
Groundskeeper Willy: Yeah, I bought your mutt - and I 'ate 'im! [Bart gasps.] I 'ate 'is little face, I 'ate 'is guts, and I 'ate the way 'e's always barkin'! So I gave 'im to the church.
Bart: Ohhh, I see... you HATE him, so you gave him to the church.
Groundskeeper Willy: Aye. I also 'ate the mess he left on me rug. [Bart stares.] Ya heard me!

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Perhaps what they think of as the Eugenics War was just all the current hoo-hah about genetically modified food. . . 8)

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Phasers

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Nacelle field grid! That's the thing I meant.

No TOS (or Fandom) ship ever had these things, IIRC.

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"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones. Fuck all those gun-toting
hip gangster wannabes."
-Tool, �nima
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Prakesh:
You realize of course that if they go strictly canon on a pre-TOS ship - we'll be talking uniforms, decor, controls and gadgets even stupider than "The Cage".

Ghaaaa.....

If the enjoyment of Sci-Fi requires the "willing suspension of disbelief", the enjoyment of the next series may require the "willing suspension of cerebral cortical and colloidal activity".

Note to self: When you first saw the publicity photos for Star Trek the Motion Picture, you were aghast - you said that Star Trek had to keep the tech-base from the original series. When you saw the publicity photos for The Next Generation, you were aghast again - "Holiday Inn in Space" you said. Give the new series a chance...

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Faster than light - no left or right.

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I agree with Treknophyle that the new series can't have devices that look more primitive than what we have seen on TOS. I always thought the props of TOS were stylized renditions of what they really look and do.

On the other hand, if the set and prop designers will basically continue with the current appearance and functions and create only a very slight retro look, they do it in the wrong time. What is the point of making a Pre-TOS series then? The least I would expect would be a ship without arrowhead, without the traditional saucer and nacelles, without a transporter, with lasers and missiles only, and with a maximum speed that makes the travel between the stars several weeks or months long. Why am I so sure that none of the above restrictions will apply to the new series? By extending the design lineage to the remote past (which includes the name of the ship) they create unnecessary "continuity" for the occasional viewer, but annoy true fans.

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"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."
Ex Astris Scientia

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

quote:
...but annoy true fans.

Um, who baptised you and me and anyone else who is interested in the minute details of the franchise as the only "true fans." Is John Q. Public who watched every single episode of TNG and enjoyed it wholehearted but didn't pay much attention to what deck the Captain's Yacht was on not a true fan? And if he doesn't watch Voyager these days because he'd rather be watching ostensibly better shows like Law & Order and The West Wing, is he not a true fan? Sorry, Bernd, I usually respect your opinions, but it's this sort of upturned nose reaction to what the general public finds in Trek that irritates the hell out of me. Believe it or not, not all the viewers out there who don't watch Trek are instead hungrily lapping up WWF SmackDown and Chains of Love. The entire elitist bunker mentality that has developed since Trek's ratings have dropped disgusts me at times, and some of the comments towards Enterprise seen on the net, not so much yours as others, are making this one of those times.

Onto other matters:
I've always rationalized the "dated" look of TOS as a kind of style phase that the UFP went through in the 2260s. Some of the attitudes the DS9 crew displayed towards the mid 23rd century in "Trials and Tribble-ations" seemed in keeping with the idea that these were a few quirky decades the Federation went through with a unique look.

As to whether its possible to show a look midway between TOS and today without looking kitschier than TOS, I'm surprised everyone finds it such a big deal. Plenty of recent science fiction offerings have had a production design that reflected a lower level of technology than TOS that still looked futuristic.

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"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

A more interesting approach could also be taken - the series VI era could be another of those "quirky" periods in Trek history, thereby establishing the concept of "quirkiness" as valid in that universe, as well as providing entertaining visions.

Perhaps people during Series VI are into dueling, or extravagant hairdos, or nudity save for covering of feet and index fingers? Or not shaving, or removing their outer ears through plastic surgery, or promoting organized crime? Or perhaps they are like TOS people, unable to be truly original and thereby choosing to imitate the 1730s or the 2120s?

At the very least, the uniforms and other attire of the valiant crew should have some weird anachronisms - perhaps dress space-helmets, or symbolic wristwatches, or exaggerated "pressure-suit joints" on their jackets and trousers to remind of the early days of spaceflight?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Timo, you are either quite brilliant or quite mad. I haven't decided.

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OH NO< THE OLD MAN WALKS HIS GREEN DOG THAT SHOTS PINBALLS!~!!!
--
Jeff K
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" and nothing at all will happen.

Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :

re the Romulans

They could do some cloak-and-dagger stuff with the whole (dare I say it?) Section 31 stuff. That way, there would never be any official meeting of Romulans and humans.

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At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.

"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

The_Tom: I'm aware it's somewhat arrogant to speak of "true fans" as opposed to the general audience. Maybe it was just the wrong choice of words. I believe that people who don't just consume TV like fast food are not an elitist group. Reflection is an important part also of TV formats that are made primarily for entertainment or even comedy (well, I would exclude obvious trash like "Big Brother" or WWF). That's one more reason why Star Trek has to be especially careful to keep its quality standards.

I think at some point everyone, the regular as well as the occasional viewer, will notice if something is wrong with a TV show. The fan will notice a lack of original stories and inconsistencies, while the general audience will prefer other TV shows over single random Trek episodes and will watch Star Trek less frequently. I think the goal of satisfying both types of viewers is accomplishable. But it's not accomplished by imitating other shows or by showing space battles or bizarre aliens every week. On the contrary, it is amazing that fans and normal TV viewers have the same favorite episodes like "The Trouble with Tribbles", or "The Best of Both Worlds". Star Trek always had some alleged (according to the opinions of the studio or TV network superiors) and often silly concessions to the average viewers (like Kirk's famous torn shirts in TOS, or Seven who luckily evolved beyond the mere "space babe"), but fortunately this never ruled the show.

I'm against every form of "impossible stories" or a "reset button", and I think that even the occasional viewers appreciate that Star Trek has an inner consistency. My impression is that TPTB think the average viewer is stupid, because they feel the need to present them a ship named "Enterprise" (as if not any other name would do as well) that probably looks like the NCC-1701 everyone knows, with basically all the same characters and technology of the later centuries. Superficially it's all the same again, but that's just the wrong kind of consistency. It's like a big sign saying: "See and believe. This is supposed to be Star Trek".

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

When TNG came out, Troi was originally promoted as being "like Spock, but she sleeps with everyone."

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Phasers

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Actually, Bernd, the reason they're presenting the viewer with a ship named Enterprise is because Paramount shot down each and every series proposal brought to them for the simple reason that they (Paramount) demanded a starship named Enterprise.

So, in this case, the naming of the ship is the direct result of TPTBs' PTB.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Why is it that the 'General Audience' is always held to be completely stupid? Every series, not only ST, does this.

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"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones. Fuck all those gun-toting
hip gangster wannabes."
-Tool, �nima
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :

Bernd Buddy:

Regarding Nomenclature (non-elistist):
Subset of fan of television show "Star Trek" who is mildly to extremely intersted in the show's "fictional universe, and the details and consistency pertaining thereto.

The non-elitist term you should be using is: "Trekkie". This is the term which non-fans of the show (and even fans who are not as interested as ourselves) use to describe us.

I am proud to number myself amongst their numbers.

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Faster than light - no left or right.