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Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
Just a side note, but don't you think ship names are getting a little stale. Well I got to thinking, this show takes place 400-600 years in the future. I.E. they should be looking at 20th century artists like we would look at middle ages or renaissance (don't get all snippy on chronology please, i'm just generalizing). So here's my question, when are we going to see a USS Jimi Hendrix, or USS Jim Morrison, or USS John Lennon. These are as influential an artist in music as anyone, so if there's a USS Prokofiev, then I want a USS Kurt Cobaine.

One of the things I liked about Babylon 5 (and believe me there weren't that many) was that they had a ship named Shwartzkopf. A modern general, but from a future perspective, a historical one.

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Signatures are for losers


 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I think it might be a little early to say which contemporary artists will still be famous in 400 years. Sure, Kurt Cobain is considered very influential now but might be forgotten in another 20. (By the way, Prokofiev's been dead for less than 50 years). I don't think we have enough historical perspective. Of course, I don't know any Starfleet vessels named after musicians. The British have a HMS Shakespeare, I think, but we the USN doesn't have a USS Tennesse Williams (maybe they should!)

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 


Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
So. its still only a show. they're taking guesses about everything else, no reason to guess on who or who won't be influential. Okay, maybe Cobain wasn't the best choice, but hendrix has been around for a while.

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Signatures are for losers


 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I highly doubt "Smells like Teen Spirit" will go down in the annals of history on par w/ van Beethoven's fifth symphony, or "Come As You Are" alongside Mozart's requiem.

The day a Trek show has a USS Sean "Puffy" Combs, I quit watching... *L*

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"Even the colors are pompous!"
-a friend of mine, looking at a Lexus brochure
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I'm guilty of naming ships after modern musiciaisn,. actors, TV characters & the like...but I bury them in my classes. They're like Easter eggs to find. It's fun. But I'm not prominent about it.

------------------
"'I don't CARE who started it, I'm tired, and I WANT QUIET!!!!! Or I'm going to come up there and flatten the BOTH of you!' And he meant it. And we'd stop. Or he would." --Foreign policy as laid down by First of Two's dad
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I've named ships after cartoonists; characters in Marx Brothers movies; comic book characters; old Soviet movies; characters, ships, vehicles, and locations from famous SF novels and movies; playwrights; pin-up artists; friends; etc. I have more than 600 named ships, so even the usual sources (older ships, spacecraft, admirals, planets, mountains, adjectives, explorers, gods, cities, scientists, battles, political leaders, mythological animals) weren't enough. Most of my references are usually obscure enough that they're either not recognized or could plausibly refer to another person, place, or thing of the same name. So, I wouldn't name a ship, USS Jennifer Lopez, but I might name one William Gaines (publisher of Mad magazine), Dallas (captain from Alien), Merkw�rdigliebe (Dr. Strangelove's real name), or simply Lopez. So Hendrix is a common enough name that it might or might not be Jimi. However, Cobain is fairly uncommon and too familiar.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
As opposed to "Merkwürdigliebe", which I'm sure is the "Smith" of Germany... :-)

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"Even the colors are pompous!"
-a friend of mine, looking at a Lexus brochure
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I actually ran that name by Bernd, but he never heard of it. I don't defend it's use other than to say the name's meant to be a joke. "Merkw�ridigliebe" is a weird name, but at least it's obscure. Cobain and Lennon, on the other hand are perhaps too easily identified as being named after Kurt C and John L.

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 


Posted by Treknophyle (Member # 509) on :
 
The german translation for Smith is Schmidt.
- David Schmidt

(hah!)

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Faster than light - no left or right.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I meant "Smith" as in "the most common surname in the country (USA)".

And for those who don't know, "Merkwürdigliebe" means "strange-love" in German. It isn't a real name. At least, I hope it isn't. :-)

------------------
"Even the colors are pompous!"
-a friend of mine, looking at a Lexus brochure
 


Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
There are many strange names in Germany, even one that translates as "pig-head" and another one that is also the German word for "f*ck". But "Merkw�rdigliebe" doesn't exist.

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"There is an intelligent lifeform out on the other side of that television too."
(Gene Roddenberry)
Ex Astris Scientia
 


Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
 
These are interesting issues, but all credability would be lost with me if there were ever a USS Cobain et al. If you want influential musicians then why not USS Johnny Rotten? He spearheaded punk culture in the 70's, but it still counts as a significant musical influence doesn't it?

I agree with TSN on this. But the other points made lead off to another tangent. Why are so many of the ships named after English speaking influences? The likes of the Prokofiev and the T'Kumbra may be amonst the exceptions, but the trend remains....

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"Synthetic scotch, synthetic commanders...."
-Scotty
http://www.trekmania.net

[This message has been edited by The Red Admiral (edited May 25, 2001).]
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Because the people coming up w/ the names are Americans, and they use the first things that come to mind.

Bernd: Which word for "fuck"? I actually have some German ancestors whose last name was "Ficker", which, according to my German dictionary, would basically translate as "fucker". I'm hoping it's just a corruption of some other name, really... *L*

------------------
"Even the colors are pompous!"
-a friend of mine, looking at a Lexus brochure
 


Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
 
Who / what is the T'Kumbra named after?
 
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
 
I don't have much information on this ship 'T'Kumbra'. It is presumably canon, but an official class hasn't been assigned.

As far as I know it's possible that it derives from 'Kitumba'. This was to be an old Star Trek: Phase II story. Many homages have been made to these old unused scripts, indeed the TNG episode 'Devil's Due' was a Phase II script. In Phase II Kitumba was to be some kind of legendary Klingon warlord.

------------------
"Synthetic scotch, synthetic Commanders...."
-Scotty

http://www.trekmania.net
 


Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
No. the T'Kumbra is a Nebula Class Starship that visited DS9 in "Take Me out to the Holosuite", it was crewed by Vulcans. Many assume that it is a "vulcan" name, but I'm not sure about that.

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Signatures are for losers


 


Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
 
I should have known that. I realise now that I have the K'Tumbra listed as a Nebula Class ship on my very own site!! But I was never sure of the origin of the name, but was just making a speculative supposition....

------------------
"Synthetic scotch, synthetic Commanders...."
-Scotty

http://www.trekmania.net
 


Posted by Reginald Barclay on :
 
Why would anyone name a starship after any artist, past or present? There's never been a USS da Vinci or a USS Van Gogh. OTOH, there have been ships named after contemporary figures, for instance the USS Grissom and the shuttle Chaffee. Ships are named after explorers, warriors, and locations, not artists.
 
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
Ah, but we have starships named after composers.

Tsiolkovsky and Prokofiev (I think...) are both composers.

Also, do not forget the USS Renaissance.

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"No, 3 & 6 are mandatory, so you only have to do them if you want"

Alex, fellow classmate, trying to explain an assignment (2/2/01)


 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Sorry, Tsiolkovsky is not a composer. He was a rocketry theorist.

As long as Starfleet claims it is not, unlike most earth naval fleets, solely military, I don't see anything wrong with naming ships after artists. I think anyone who appears put on currency or stamps is fair game!

(I'm referring to stamps of reputable countries, not those of countries that put Pokemon and the Little Mermaid on their stamps to make money. If you are from one of these shabby little countries, I mean no disrespect. Of course, the US puts Bugs Bunny on its stamps too.)

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

 


Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
Hmm... We've had a USS Bradbury. I can see a USS Picasso. Even the starships Franklin, Copland, and Stravinsky could be possible. Heck, even the USS Douglas or USS Hepburn. I don't know about the starships Spears, Dion, or P. D. Q. Bach. Or the USS Shore and USS Silverstone.
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
PDQ Bach. That's a name I've not heard since... Well, since long before you were born...

Anyways, when I name ships after people who probably don't deserve to have ships named after them, I try to maintain plausible deniability. Let's say you've named a ship after Brittney Spears (USS Spears). If someone questions you on it, you should be able to deny that you named it after her; instead, you say, it was named after Sir Benjamin Throckmorton Spears, the 19th century inventor of a process for refining selenium, which allowed the invention of quantum flux communications. Your questioner nods, claiming, "oh, yes, I've heard of him."

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

[This message has been edited by Masao (edited May 26, 2001).]
 


Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
 
Challenging Masao for the claim of 'too much time on my hands prize', I have 1520 named ships on my site. But I've used many of the established, and traditional naming methods that we're used to in Trek. In some ways certain artists do have mentions because as alluded to by Siegfried they do exist. There was also a certain USS Thoams Paine - a writer.

I haven't yet got a USS Britney Spears. But I am thinking about it........


:-)

------------------
"Synthetic scotch, synthetic Commanders...."
-Scotty

http://www.trekmania.net
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
"Challenging Masao for the claim of 'too much time on my hands prize', I have 1520 named ships on my site."

I win. 24,629 names so far. Out of a needed 100,344 by the end of the year. I'm a little behind. And out of those 24,629 names, 19,425 of them are original, meaning the remaining 5204 are reuses. Not bad for 25,000 names.

"But I've used many of the established, and traditional naming methods that we're used to in Trek."

Me, too. But I'm breaking that habit. Alien names are surprisingly easy ones you get the hang of it.

------------------
"'I don't CARE who started it, I'm tired, and I WANT QUIET!!!!! Or I'm going to come up there and flatten the BOTH of you!' And he meant it. And we'd stop. Or he would." --Foreign policy as laid down by First of Two's dad

[This message has been edited by Shik (edited May 26, 2001).]
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Holy f*cking Christ in a basket! That's not a ship list, that's a phone book!
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Werd, yo.

All to be found at J-Project...that is, when my server decides to stop dicking around & get fixed. Note that it's a heavy omega test. Plus I think there's some errors in the Oberths where about 1500 names got lost. Eventually I'll fix it all.
 


Posted by Nimrod (Member # 205) on :
 
*gasps* Has your site been tested by Omega and APPROVED??? That calls for celebration!

EVERYBODY, TURNIPS ARE ON ME!!!!
 


Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
Through the years, I've written Trek short stories. Usually, this was for a class assignment, but I did some fun writing on my own. Alas, I've lost all those old stories (some of them, it's for the best). I've also dabbled with my own online Trek series for a few years now. I've always sought out ships names never used before.

I have a USS Siegfried, named from the hero of the Richard Wagner opera cycle and Norse mythology. I've also used a USS Tannhauser and USS Lohengrin (two other Wagner operas).

I've named other starships the USS Eroica (Beethoven's Third Symphony, the USS Firebird and USS Petrushka (two Stravinsky ballets), the USS Appalachian Spring and USS Rodeo (both Aaron Copland ballets), and the USS Requiem (Mahler's Fourth Symphony). As you probably guess, I was a music education major my first two years in college.

Some of my ships names have literary beginnings. There's the USS Gandalf and USS Shadowfax from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. I've also used a USS Asimov and USS Dickinson. For one creative writing assignment, I used a USS Red Fern since we had just finished Where the Red Fern Grows.

I also have the tendency to name ships after my friends. I've the USS Borgfeldt, which was named for my high school band director, and the USS Woodyard, named for the first woman I ever fell in love with.

Still other ships I named because of the influence they've had on me. I've used a USS Maritza (named for the artist of my favorite webcomic) and the USS Schulz (author of Peanuts). There's the USS Ezekiel (taken from the UH Administration Building: Ezekiel Cullen Building) and the USS Cavalier (named for my faithful car).

There's just a lot of sources out there for interesting names.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
I assumed "T'Kumbra" was just a made-up Vulcan name. Possibly from something old, like the way "ShirKahr" (or whatever it was) came from TAS and such...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Server's back online. Feel free to peruse. And YES, I DID give a Galaxy the name of Diana, Princess Of Wales. Get over it.
 
Posted by Delta Vega (Member # 283) on :
 
T'Kumbra sounds like a Vulcan philosipher (sp) name, for some reason. To me anyway.

[ May 28, 2001: Message edited by: Delta Vega ]
 


Posted by Jeff Kardde (Member # 411) on :
 
Yes, but where is your Jeff, Lord and High Master?
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Sitting in the bathroom next to the toilet waiting to be used shoulg the shitter gets clogged.
 
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
 
Siegfried...USS Eroica? aren't you missing a "t"????
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
I have a Siegfried class and a Tannhauser class as well, but I got them second-hand rather directly from the opera. I named Siegfried from the old silent German film and Tannhaeuser comes from Blade Runner (Roy Batty: "I've watched c-beams flicker in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate."). I also have a Diana; I originally named her after the goddess, but for the ship's crest I used the late Princess of Wales' coat of arms.

Anyways, the only reason I have all these names is to impress people with my vast knowledge of arcane subjects
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Masao, you want arcane? Look though my Excelsior-class names. 3900 ships mostly taken from obscure Earth history. (e.g., USS Heracleopolis Magna)
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
No thanks, Shik. Do ya think I have so much time on my hands?

Twenty-four thousand six hundred twenty-nine!!!
 


Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
When my web domain is finally ready to take public, y'all will have a chance to comment on my listing (thus far). I haven't bothered to count, though, so I don't know how many I've actually got.

As for the Anglo ship names thing... As Gene's inspiration was Royal Navy/Horatio Hornblower, the majority of ship names are Royal Navy -- moreso even than the American Navy. I've compiled a run-down for ya:

First, the Royal Navy, as most non-American ship names hail from there:

Hood
Excalibur
Exeter
Valiant
Reliant
Excelsior
Fearless
Sentinel
Thunderchild
Sutherland
Repulse
Ajax
Agamemnon
Melbourne
Sydney
Victory
Miranda
Ulysses
Leeds
Odyssey
Prometheus
Drake
Majestic
Endeavour
Wellington
Venture [also an American ship]
Pegasus [also an American ship]
Nautilus [also an American ship]
Essex [also an American ship]
Phoenix [also an American ship]
Apollo [also an American ship]
Bellerophon [also an American ship]
Jupiter [semi-canon, also an American ship]


Japanese:

Yamaguchi [I'm assuming the Trek ship is NOT named after the skater]
Akagi
Yamato
Kongo
Akira
Hiroshima
Musashi
Okinawa
Honshu
Kyushu
Hokkaido


Indian:

Gandhi
Raman
Ganges


Greek:

Andromeda
Adelphi [maybe]
Hermes
Hera
Constantinople [anglicization]
Antares
Daedalus
Aries
Ptolemy [anglicization]
Zodiac
Icarus


Native American:

Cheyenne
Ahwahnee
Crazy Horse
Lakota
Sequoia
Yosemite [anglicization]
Huron


Russian:

Zhukov
Prokofiev
Soyuz
Tolstoy
Buran
Chekov
Potemkin
Volga
Korolev
Tsiolkovsky


African:

Biko
Wambundu
Malinche


German:

Oberth
Danube [anglicization]


Arabic:

Rigel
Cairo
Al-Batani
Saladin [anglicization]


Eastern European/Near-East:

Copernicus [Latinization]
Istanbul
Budapest [anglicization]
Sarajevo


Eastern and Southeastern Asia:

Yangtzee Kiang
Mekong
Tien An Men


"Romantic" (That being, Latin and Latin-derived languages):

Arcos
La Salle
Orinoco
Rubicon
Magellan
Havana
Cortez
Pasteur
Mediterranean
Trieste
Nobel
Concorde
Zapata
Renaissance

Vulcan:

T'Kumbra
Sitak
ShirKahr [sic -- the "proper" spelling is ShiKahr]
Surak


Klingon:

Gorkon


"Other" (sorry all you Aussies and Hawaiians out there -- this category is truly just my unsorted bin):

Jenolan
Deneva
Tripoli
Hokule'a
Banting
Fleming
Destiny [lab module of ISS]

Have at...
--Jonah
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Very nice work!
Thunderchild is from 'The War of the Worlds' and, as far as I know, was not a real RN ship. The correct spelling from the novel is Thunder Child, by the way.
Malinche - I though someone here once mentioned that she was some "traitorous bitch" from Mexico who gave her people up to Cortez or something.
Tripoli - Since this is in North Africa, might it be Arabic?
 
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Italian, more likely. And what about the list of obvious American-derived names than?
 
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
 
'Kongo' could mean two things:

The IJN Kong�, Japanese battleship
or
The 14th century African kingdom of Kongo, which ceased to exist in 1570.
 


Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
"Budapest" is "Budapest" in Hungarian too.

I have to insist on Copernicus being German (although the Poles always claim otherwise). His name supposedly comes from "K�pernig".

BTW, Kitumba was actually supposed to be the name of the Klingon ruler who turns out to be a child (in a Phase II story).

And sorry for the offensive name of your ancestor, TSN. You don't seem to have much luck with the German meanings of your name(s).
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Oh, that's not even all. Among other names in my ancestry are "Leidig", which means "unpleasant", and "Sackbauer", in which "Bauer" means "farmer", and "Sack", while normally meaning "bag" or "sack", can apparently also mean "balls" or "lazy".

Bad luck, indeed... *L*
 


Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
 
Impressive run-down Peregrinus, I use similar influences for my fleet listings and class naming strategies. Particularly the greek/roman mythological names for the early starships.

But I want to bring up the actual origin of the name/word Wambundu for the class name. Does anyone know from where this derives? It does indeed sound African but I just don't know exactly where it comes from. But as an obviously non-canon speculated footnote in my listings for this class, I explained the name Wambundu away as being named after a 22nd century Federation President. In reality, I'm at a loss for the actual origin.
 


Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
TSN: It must have been a bad day when you took the dictionary and discovered that your name means nothing, and you have unpleasant and lazy ancestors and one named "F*cker".
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
'"Budapest" is "Budapest" in Hungarian too.'

I know it to be pronounced with a "sh" sound rather than a sibilant "s"...

The Kongo was named after the Japanese ship.

And thanks for the other corrections.

--Jonah
 


Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
My addendum...

American:

Decatur
Farragut
Yorktown
Lexington
Belknap
Kearsarge
Gage
Constitution
Baton Rouge
Gettysburg
Rio Grande
Shenandoah
Yukon
Roosevelt
Tecumseh
Crockett
Charleston
Valley Forge
Monitor
Merrimack
Wyoming
Saratoga
Rutherford
Rutledge
Thomas Paine
[City of] New Orleans
Niagara
Princeton
Olympia
Maryland
Springfield
Appalachia
Denver
Carolina
Ticonderoga
Truman
Baltimore
John Muir
Tombaugh [presumed named after Clyde Tombaugh]
Bonestell [presumed named after Chesley Bonestell]
Yeager [presumed named after Chuck Yeager]
Clement [presumed named after Hal Clement]
Armstrong [presumed named after Neil Armstrong]
Grissom [presumed named after Virgil "Gus" Grissom]
Shepard [presumed named after Alan Shepard]
Cochrane [presumed named after Zefram Cochrane]
Revere [presumed named after Paul Revere]
Goddard [presumed named after Robert Goddard]


With late additions to the Royal Navy section:

Aurora [also an American ship]
Agincourt
Dauntless
Discovery [also an American spacecraft]
Sovereign
Sabre
Hornet [also an American ship]
Peregrine [also an American ship]
Olympic
Vigilant [also an American ship]
Majestic
Alexandria [also an American ship]
Voyager
Columbia [also an American ship]
Livingston
Defiant
Intrepid [also an American ship]
Republic
Eagle [also an American ship]
Valkyrie
Portland [also an American ship]
Constellation [also an American ship]
Drake [presumed named after Sir Francis Drake]
Andromeda [also an American ship]
Challenger [also an American spacecraft]
Enterprise [also an American ship]


And German:

Berlin
Emden


And Greek:

Centaur
Chimera


Then these get added to my unsorted bin:

Bozeman
Hathaway
Curry
Stargazer
Horizon
Archon
Arcos
Frederickson
Vico
Federation
Entente
Freedom
Firebrand
Concorde
Galaxy
Nebula
Trinculo
Lalo
Valdemar
Horatio
Brattain
Lantree
Proxima
Renegade
Norway
Nova
Horatio
Nash
Steamrunner [not a real word � derived from "Streamrunner"]
Yorkshire
Whorfin [this one hurts...]
Billings
Helin
Liberator
Scovil
Veracruz

...being ships for which I can find no precedent with a cursory search.

--Jonah
 


Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Bozeman and Billings are towns in Montana. And I'm seeing a lot of names I don't even have on my list! Decatur? But my point is made - that is a disproportionate ammount of ships with an American origin. . .
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
That list needs a LOT of modification. And there's a lot of never-mentioned ships in there, too.
 
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
 
Modification how? Sure I didn't bothe rto alphabetize them. Sure I know it's a bit of a botch job for only a couple hours worth of effort. But what did you mean?

As for the Billings and the Bozeman. Yes, I know they're towns in Montana. Point is, there's no precedent of a ship in either the US Navy or Royal Navy with the names in my 'unsorted' bin that I can find with a cursory search. I know the actual origins of all these names. You're seeing this as it gets developed. Should I put the "Aurora" in with the Greek stuff because it's a Greek word, and despite there being ships bearing that name in both the US Navy and Royal Navy?

This was very quick and dirty. It's about a week away from being 'presentable'. I just wanted to give a rapid response to the 'ethnicity of ship names' question.

--Jonah
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Delete! I was going to give, some info, but it seems you already no all the sources. Sorry

[ May 31, 2001: Message edited by: Masao ]
 


Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Yukon: Might it be considered Canadian?

Aurora: Is also a famous Russian/Soviet ship. it helped put down counterrevolutionaries. It's still in Moscow, I think.

If you know all where all these names are from, could you tell us some of the more obscure ones, like Lantree, Valdemar, Lalo, Vico, Curry, Nash, Scovil, and Arcos?
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Well, you could slap together a Canadian column of sorts. The Banting is presumably named after the Canadian discoverer of penicillin, and the Yukon and Gander are Canadian rivers. But AFAIK there've been no Canadian naval vessels with those names. There have been a few HMCS Hurons, which you have on your list, but when was there a Huron on Trek?
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Huron was a ship in the animated series. It got attacked by Orion pirates.
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Here's a Canadian Yukon. It was sunk off San Diego to make an articial reef for divers. http://www.hmcs-yukon.org/

There was also a HCMS Gander, a RN Base in New Foundland from 1938 to 1957. No ship, though. http://british-forces.com/rtw/bases/na.html
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
*checks Canadian naval records*
There's also been an HMCS Aurora and HMCS Venture, but I doubt any of them remotely influenced the writers in naming their ships.
 
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
If I were a nerd/geek/otaku, I'd say that Aurora was named after the old plastic model company and Venture was named after the ship in King Kong. (Good thing I'm not!)

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: Masao ]
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Is there any point even looking for actual ships that share their names w/Danube-class runabouts, seeing as we know the writers were choosing names based solely on rivers? I mean, there could be a an American minelayer from the 1920s called the Rio Grande but that would have had zero impact on the decision to name the ship what they did.
 
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Yeah, and where did this "Starfleet ships are all named for old Earth surface ships" thing come from anyway? Bozeman was chosen because one of the writers (Braga?) comes from there. I don't think Okuda was going to tell him "nope, can't call it that, it's not listed in my copy of Jane's Fighting Ships."
 
Posted by Identity Crisis (Member # 67) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Masao:
Aurora: Is also a famous Russian/Soviet ship. it helped put down counterrevolutionaries. It's still in Moscow, I think.

I've actually been round the Aurora, it's in St Petersburg. (Moscow is a long way inland, I doubt you could get a naval vessel all the way up river). The Aurora did play some part in the 1917 revolution, but I can't remember what exactly.

Definitely worth adding to a possible Russian list.
 


Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Or it could just be named after that big glittery thing in the Northern sky? Next you'll have us believe the Galaxy is named for a cruise ship. . .
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
No, but the Norway is...although I still remember her as the �le de France, savior of the Andrea Doria collision.

Another thing, now that I like about it...ACCENT MARKS. I've been trying of late to get them right, but if I were to go back through the 25,000 ships I have now, to look for accent marks...DAMN. This seem to be a big thing for me because it can really fuck things up.

Let's take 2 characters only found in Icelandic--� (or �) & � (or �). In an English translation, some idiot would turn them into "d" & "p," respectively becasue that what they think it looks like, thus making Bor�eyri & �ingvellir into "Bordeyri" & "Pingvellir."

But "�" is pronounced as a "th" like in "the" & "�" is "th" like in "thing," so a proper translation would be "Bortheyri" & "Thingvellir."

Or just use the correct fucking accents.

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: Shik ]
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Actually, to tell them apart, I've seen 'ð' transliterated as 'dh' and 'þ' as 'th'.
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Oh, and I thought the name Norway came from the country, because Alex Jaeger's origins were Norse...?
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
'Twas a JOKE, son. A funny. A ha-ha built upon the poorly-laid foundation of the previous.

"Jaeger" as a Gothwegian name? Hmm. Maybe.
 


Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
 
I still like Riker's command of the U.S.S. Lollipop...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 

(I used the fucking picture. HAPPY??)


I'm doing the final smoothing edits on the names for project now, & I came across the name that still seems a bit iffy now as it did 3 pages & 7 years ago: Diana, Princess Of Wales. On the one hand, I can justify it; on the other hand...can I justify it for an Ambassador & a Galaxy?

So the question remains: what makes a good starship name? I mean, obviously nothing like Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot, but is Hirohito okay? There's a canon Malinche, who is pretty reviled in Mexico. Bernd has oft stated his distaste for the canon Zhukov due to Soviet war excesses inflicted on Germany, but is there a general or leader who is totally blameless? I have ships named after Fidel Castro & Mao Zedong; Fidel has helped the Cubans as much as he could given the embargo, & Mao was a philosopher & political theorist as well as a leader. Are they wrong? What makes a name "worthy?"
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Well, you could argue that by the 24th century, 20th century political leaders or notable individuals are viewed in a different light than they are now. But of course, speaking in the here & now, I still haven't the foggiest idea why anyone would name a Federation starship the "U.S.S. Malinche." Not just taking into account the person herself for whom the ship is named, but the fact that there weren't any better names to be had? Starfleet must have built a million Excelsiors for one of them to have such an esoteric name.

(apparently this name was suggested by Rene Ecchevarria, which would at least explain its source, since production personnel had the annoying habit of naming ships from their own personal tastes, which was why we had ships named Billings and Bozeman...thank you very much, Mr. Braga...)

On another note, it seems that Starfleet also made some goofy decisions about starship names. For example, Zefram Cochrane, the "Father of Warp Drive," has his name attached to a measly Oberth. Wouldn't you think a man of such importance to ST history would have had a ship named after him with a little more prestige? (after all, whole planets were named after the guy...)
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Aside from whatever sounds cool in the production meeting... I also notice that there isn't much diversity in ship names.
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
I notice that too, and it's also really annoying. Like in Enterprise, when another Earth Starfleet ship was named, it was always "Intrepid," or "Yorktown," or "Republic." It was like the writers didn't have a creative bone in their bodies, which of course they didn't.
 
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
 
I'd think a large ship would use his full name, so the USS Zefram Cochrane might be a Galaxy class vessel. Isn't a Cochrane a measure of the power of a warp engine or something? It could, in theory be named for that.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Who do you think the unit is named after?
 
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
I notice that too, and it's also really annoying. Like in Enterprise, when another Earth Starfleet ship was named, it was always "Intrepid," or "Yorktown," or "Republic." It was like the writers didn't have a creative bone in their bodies, which of course they didn't.

Back in the sixies... think about it? Commie bashing/Hollywood Press-gang Black Listing was 10 years ago then. It was radical enough to have a russian Weapons Officer (more like Duty Weps, since Ens Chechov probably only held Division Officer duties when not the bridge), let along a 'woman of color' as your Comms Officer (more inclined to think she was a HoD than just a DIVO). naming ships after our real world mortal enemies... probably would have gotten ST canned much sooner...


hmm.... here's a thought. can you name star ships using other than english? What's french for Intrepid or Exeter? could there be multiple namings of a particular word? *casts Summon Bablefish!*

intrépide

intrépido

furchtlos

бестрепетно

this could be fun. in the world exports of Star Trek, do they translate the names of ships into local verbage?
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
quote:
hmm.... here's a thought. can you name star ships using other than english? What's french for Intrepid or Exeter? could there be multiple namings of a particular word? *casts Summon Bablefish!*
They did name a ship using a language other than English: The Tsiolkovsky, whose dedication plaque was in Cyrillic. If they had bothered to relabel the actual model, those would have been the characters they would have used.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I'm not so sure when you think about it?
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
Well, you could argue that by the 24th century, 20th century political leaders or notable individuals are viewed in a different light than they are now. But of course, speaking in the here & now, I still haven't the foggiest idea why anyone would name a Federation starship the "U.S.S. Malinche." Not just taking into account the person herself for whom the ship is named, but the fact that there weren't any better names to be had? Starfleet must have built a million Excelsiors for one of them to have such an esoteric name.

(apparently this name was suggested by Rene Ecchevarria, which would at least explain its source, since production personnel had the annoying habit of naming ships from their own personal tastes, which was why we had ships named Billings and Bozeman...thank you very much, Mr. Braga...)

On another note, it seems that Starfleet also made some goofy decisions about starship names. For example, Zefram Cochrane, the "Father of Warp Drive," has his name attached to a measly Oberth. Wouldn't you think a man of such importance to ST history would have had a ship named after him with a little more prestige? (after all, whole planets were named after the guy...)

Hey! Quit crapping on my Oberth! Lets be honest, naming a science and exploration vessel after a famous scientist and explorer makes more sense than naming a cruiser or transport after him.

As for what constitutes an appropriate name, I dare say 400 years can give a new perspective on history and allot of the old provincial attitudes simply won't apply anymore.
I seam to recall JMS saying something along the same lines when someone asked him why call and explorer ship in B5 "Cortez"?
Here's his responce....
quote:
So tell me, Ligia, if Cortez had NOT landed in northern Mexico, do
you think it would have remained undiscovered until now?

Fact #1: somebody was bound to discover the Americas.

Fact #2: any sufficiently advanced civilization or culture will
inevitably attempt to exploit any civilization or culture not sufficiently
advanced to fight back on a level playing field.

Blaming explorers for exploring has always seemed to me really kind
of silly; do people *really* think that if Columbus hadn't landed here,
it'd be 1994 and we still wouldn't know the world was round and that
this continent was here? It doesn't matter who discovered it, the same
result would've come. Somebody had to discover it sooner or later.

jms

As for obscure references go; also remember that they have four more centuries of events and personalities to draw from, so who knows what happened in that time that we don't know about. Think of all the federation presidents, the scientists, the starship captains, all the new colonial cities, the ambassadors, philosophers, star names, the famous and the infamous. Strictly speaking, by the 24th century we should have trouble understanding their English because of this, as a language naturally evolves over time and is very much influenced by the changes in culture( apparantly the UT in our tellies has a cultural filter [Wink] .) With that in mind you can justify almost any name.
Not Diana, Princess of Wales though. That's just tacky and I doubt she'll be much more than a footnote in 400 years. On the other hand, Diana - goddess of the hunt and third largest Luna settlement; that's just fine.
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
That arguement from JMS is complete shit. Yes, someone from Europe would eventually have popularized the existence of the Americas. And, yeah, someone from Europe probably would have ended up fucking over the natives. Honoring the person who did the first thing would be just fine, if the same person didn't do the second thing, too.
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:
hmm.... here's a thought. can you name star ships using other than english? What's french for Intrepid or Exeter? could there be multiple namings of a particular word? *casts Summon Bablefish!*
They did name a ship using a language other than English: The Tsiolkovsky, whose dedication plaque was in Cyrillic. If they had bothered to relabel the actual model, those would have been the characters they would have used.
But Tsiolkovsky is a name, not a word, and Cyrillic is an alphabet, not a language, so I don't know if it qualifies as being named in a language other than English.
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Don't forget that the USS Adelphi, mentioned in TNG's "Tin Man", is named after Adelphi, MD, where the scripts' writers -- and me too, actually -- lived.
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I liked in Star Wars Starship Creator: Warp II how the Klingon BoP had it's name written in piQaD (er, piq'aD? something like that...) instead of Latin letters.
 
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Butler:
I liked in Star Wars Starship Creator: Warp II how the Klingon BoP had it's name written in piQaD (er, piq'aD? something like that...) instead of Latin letters.

Now, my memory must be foggy, when exactly did the Klingons fight the Empire? Or did they fight the Rebels? [Wink]
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Oops. What the frak was I thinking? Leave me alone. I'm tired and smell of fried chicken products.
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Butler:
quote:
Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:
hmm.... here's a thought. can you name star ships using other than english? What's french for Intrepid or Exeter? could there be multiple namings of a particular word? *casts Summon Bablefish!*
They did name a ship using a language other than English: The Tsiolkovsky, whose dedication plaque was in Cyrillic. If they had bothered to relabel the actual model, those would have been the characters they would have used.
But Tsiolkovsky is a name, not a word, and Cyrillic is an alphabet, not a language, so I don't know if it qualifies as being named in a language other than English.
Well off the top of my head there was the Mariposa, the Velikan, the Hokule'a and I suppose the Shiku Maru and the Kobayashi Maru count.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Butler:
Oops. What the frak was I thinking? Leave me alone. I'm tired and smell of fried chicken products.

I told you not to use chicken grease as lubricant....(shakes head)
You probably have all the neighborhood cats following you home again, dont you?
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
My mom happens to have two cats. One of them hates chicken. He prefers macaroni and cheese.
 
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
So then you must feed him Daniel's favourite macaroni and cheese, then?
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
If there's a joke there, I'm not getting it. :-/ I tend to feed him my own blood. He is a biting cat.
 
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRKCzCPn3UE
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
That was obscure. You *geek.* [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Fuck yeah.

I even know what episode that is from. [Razz]
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
Hey, so, does "maru" get appended to spaceship names in Japan?
 
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
Well, we've only had two examples to go by (Kobayashi Maru and Shika Maru) so its hard to say.
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
In the real world it's a Japanese naming convention, mostly for no-military ships (especially fishing boats) although that wasn't always the case. In literal terms it means "circle" and there are a few theories as to it's significance, but mostly it seams to be a good luck superstition that's become a tradition.

As far as Star Trek is concerned, I take it that the two ships mentioned (one of which I consider fictional anyway) I tend to assume they're from ports and colonies with a strong Japanese cultural heritage. Since the early colonist would have lifted off from Earth's surface (rather than embarking in orbit) it stands to reason that the large groups of settlers were mostly from the same region, so it stands to reason you'd get Earth colonies with strong cultural ties to one Earth culture in particular. So by that logic Tau Ceti IV was initially settled by Japanese.
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
For example, that Scottish colony Crusher's grandmother died at...I forget it's name. You know. Ana-whatsit lifeform, lived in a candle.
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
And that Native American Colony in the DMZ and the ship full of Irish Pub/tourist trap performers...
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
Didn't they call those people Oirish? In the Encyclopedia or somewhere?
 
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
 
I was asking about actual Japanese spaceships, or, at least, actual fictional Japanese spaceships, of which my knowledge is limited to the Bebop.
 
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
 
My knowledge of fictional Japanese spaceships is limited to CE-era Gundam, so that's not very indicative either...
 


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